Boy Scouts Forbid Fat Kids to Attend Jamboree

[Sobeknofret]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... e/2519059/

"The quadrennial Boy Scout Jamboree opened Monday at a sprawling new site in the West Virginia mountains, with one big omission: Scouts who are dangerously overweight.

Scout leaders designed the 10-day wilderness gathering in the New River Gorge region to be the most physically demanding since the first Jamboree, a camp-out held around the Washington Monument in 1937.

To be eligible for this year's mass gathering, tens of thousands of Scouts (and their leaders) had to meet standards for Body Mass Index and other health factors. Scouts whose BMI was 40 or above were banned from the 10,600-acre Summit Bechtel Family National Scout Reserve, while those between 32 and 39.9 had to submit medical information to be approved."

Really, it just reaffirms my decision not to encourage Scouts for my son.

[Chowder Head]

NWTH...those ashats. So fat people cant hike or do outdoir things? Wow they just handed someone a courtcase . Those poor kids. I just.ragey :angry-banghead:

[ILoveJellybeans]

Thats horrible :(

Imagine being a kid, and getting excited over going to have fun with all their friends, but then being told "No, you cant go, your too fat". Its really setting kids up for eating disorders and low self esteem.

[previously]

Too fat to exercise. Great plan.

[pastaswife]

So the best way to make fat children feel positively about losing weight is to forbid them from being outdoors then??

[Gil]

Increasingly the BSA's policies just sound like the policies of the neighborhood bully.

[louisa05]

This is a rock and hard place situation. A 40+ BMI is not just an overweight kid. My nephew was over 320 lbs a year ago and still not at 40+ (kid is tall) but he had high blood pressure, shortness of breath, and could not walk more than a few blocks at a time. If he had got up to 40+ he would definitely not have been capable of functioning in the activities that will be done at this event. It could have resulted in a medical crisis. BSA has a right to protect themselves from the lawsuits/liability that could come their way if minor children in their care become seriously ill due to participating in activities they are not adequately fit to do.

(Fortunately, a good doctor gave a nephew a wake-up call at his school physical and he is losing and his blood pressure is at the high end of normal now.)

[Sobeknofret]

Getting to go to the National Jamboree is a big deal for Scouts. Those poor kids were effectively told that they weren't good enough for what is arguably the pinnacle of Scouting life.

My dad was a Scout leader, worked as a liaison between Scout troops (boys and girls) and the National Park Service, and supervised Eagle Scout projects with the NPS. I decided years ago that my son wasn't going to be involved with the scouts over their policy on gay/trans/questioning scouts and leaders. That was hard to do, because I saw the good that some Scout leaders were able to do for the kids in their troops, but ultimately, the moral choice was obvious to me. Now this.

[infooverload]

This is a rock and hard place situation. A 40+ BMI is not just an overweight kid. My nephew was over 320 lbs a year ago and still not at 40+ (kid is tall) but he had high blood pressure, shortness of breath, and could not walk more than a few blocks at a time. If he had got up to 40+ he would definitely not have been capable of functioning in the activities that will be done at this event. It could have resulted in a medical crisis. BSA has a right to protect themselves from the lawsuits/liability that could come their way if minor children in their care become seriously ill due to participating in activities they are not adequately fit to do.

(Fortunately, a good doctor gave a nephew a wake-up call at his school physical and he is losing and his blood pressure is at the high end of normal now.)

After all some things unfortunately have weight limits and to say they don't would be irresponsible. My brother and nephew are in the scouts and I know they do some physically gruelling challenges at times. Basically I think if the kids are given enough notice to lose the weight then it is a win/win all around. Basically like in all things in life it is the approach that is used.

[Sobeknofret]

This is a rock and hard place situation. A 40+ BMI is not just an overweight kid. My nephew was over 320 lbs a year ago and still not at 40+ (kid is tall) but he had high blood pressure, shortness of breath, and could not walk more than a few blocks at a time. If he had got up to 40+ he would definitely not have been capable of functioning in the activities that will be done at this event. It could have resulted in a medical crisis. BSA has a right to protect themselves from the lawsuits/liability that could come their way if minor children in their care become seriously ill due to participating in activities they are not adequately fit to do.

(Fortunately, a good doctor gave a nephew a wake-up call at his school physical and he is losing and his blood pressure is at the high end of normal now.)

But why couldn't the organizers have planned events for the kids who didn't fit their criteria? Why ban them from the National Jamboree altogether? It's crap. These kids have effectively just been told that they're not really Scouts! The National Jamboree is a huge deal! The kids who couldn't make their cutoff have just been barred from participating in one of the pinnacles of their Scouting career, because somebody couldn't be bothered to organize events that they could participate in.

[curlytoes79]

Too fat to exercise. Great plan.

You beat me to it. Shouldn't they be encouraging severely overweight kids to exercise?

[slickcat79]

But why couldn't the organizers have planned events for the kids who didn't fit their criteria? Why ban them from the National Jamboree altogether? It's crap. These kids have effectively just been told that they're not really Scouts! The National Jamboree is a huge deal! The kids who couldn't make their cutoff have just been barred from participating in one of the pinnacles of their Scouting career, because somebody couldn't be bothered to organize events that they could participate in.

Yeah, that. I mean, if they're not well enough to hike 3 miles up a hill, I don't see why they couldn't do some other activity at the camp since there's more to the jamboree than just a hike. If your goal is to encourage kids to lose weight and be healthy, why not offer them a better way to do that instead of just giving them a restriction and telling them to meet it or else? And while 40 BMI is really extremely high, 32 is not at that level, yet kids may be embarassed to have to get a medical note over something like that. Scouting is supposed to be fun.

I do think they'd face less backlash if they didn't also routinely exclude kids for other reasons. I mean, if an overweight kid did lose weight he could still be excluded for being gay or atheist, and there's not much you can do about that except lie.

[OkToBeTakei]

Yeah, that. I mean, if they're not well enough to hike 3 miles up a hill, I don't see why they couldn't do some other activity at the camp since there's more to the jamboree than just a hike. If your goal is to encourage kids to lose weight and be healthy, why not offer them a better way to do that instead of just giving them a restriction and telling them to meet it or else? And while 40 BMI is really extremely high, 32 is not at that level, yet kids may be embarassed to have to get a medical note over something like that. Scouting is supposed to be fun.

I do think they'd face less backlash if they didn't also routinely exclude kids for other reasons. I mean, if an overweight kid did lose weight he could still be excluded for being gay or atheist, and there's not much you can do about that except lie.

Yes. Don't understand why they could not provide alternative activities. BMI 40 is pretty seriously overweight though. Is it possible it is for some litigious reason? As in they fear being legally responsible should an activity they organise cause the death of a child?

That being said they could have tried WAY harder to be inclusive and deal with this through parental/medical disclaimers if the issue was legal. As somebody up thread pointed out not like from what I have read of the American scouting movement they are known for being particularly forward thinking. Poor kids.

[Jinger Jar]

What about Scouts with physical limitations that preclude them the same activities as the ones the BSA says fat kids can't do? Scouts who use mobility devices, live with visual impairments... There are, according to the [link=http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/SpecialNeedsInformationSheet.pdf]BSA's own fact sheet[/link], 100,000 Scouts with special needs. Are they being told they're not good enough for this Jamboree? Do they or their parents have to go begging from doctors for permission to attend? Or it it just the fat Scouts who've been told to stay away?

[salex]

scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/Resources/MedicalFormFAQs.aspx

Here is the link to the Medical Form. It explains the health form requirements and there are links to the FAQs about safety, etc. Apparently , this information was available for over a year, possibly since 2010, regarding who could participate in the more intense types of outdoor events. It appears most of this is related to risk, insurance, preventing lawsuits for injury/death, etc.

Not thrilled with it, but understand it. It isn't something they just announced as people came to the event.

[FiddleDD]

Ragen says it better than me: http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/2013 ... -fat-kids/

[Jinger Jar]

Yes. Don't understand why they could not provide alternative activities. BMI 40 is pretty seriously overweight though. Is it possible it is for some litigious reason? As in they fear being legally responsible should an activity they organise cause the death of a child?

That being said they could have tried WAY harder to be inclusive and deal with this through parental/medical disclaimers if the issue was legal. As somebody up thread pointed out not like from what I have read of the American scouting movement they are known for being particularly forward thinking. Poor kids.

A couple of thoughts to the bolded:

* Lots of Scouting activities can cause injury or death, and none of them have to do with the amount of fat on a child's body. If the BSA were concerned about that, they wouldn't offer any wilderness experiences to their members, period.

* Generally when minors participate in organized activities like Scouting, the parent/guardian has to sign releases that absolve the organization from liability if their child is injured/killed so long as the organization didn't deliberately put the kids in danger (e.g., knowingly put them on a bus with no working brakes, knowingly feed them spoiled food, etc.). If there weren't such releases, very few school would offer field trips or organized sports, and organizations like the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts would find too liable to keep their doors open. You can be sure that all the people under 18 at that Jamboree have a parent or guardian who signed lots of waivers and other legal documents before they were allowed to enter the Jamboree grounds.

[wild little fox]

What about Scouts with physical limitations that preclude them the same activities as the ones the BSA says fat kids can't do? Scouts who use mobility devices, live with visual impairments... There are, according to the [link=http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/SpecialNeedsInformationSheet.pdf]BSA's own fact sheet[/link], 100,000 Scouts with special needs. Are they being told they're not good enough for this Jamboree? Do they or their parents have to go begging from doctors for permission to attend? Or it it just the fat Scouts who've been told to stay away?

THIS!!

[wild little fox]

Someone with a 40+ BMI can be physically fit enough to hike uphill for three miles! Just ask me!!!! I did it! I also finished 5k's and a 10k. This is STOOOOPID!!!!!

[OkToBeTakei]

scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/Resources/MedicalFormFAQs.aspx

Here is the link to the Medical Form. It explains the health form requirements and there are links to the FAQs about safety, etc. Apparently , this information was available for over a year, possibly since 2010, regarding who could participate in the more intense types of outdoor events. It appears most of this is related to risk, insurance, preventing lawsuits for injury/death, etc.

Not thrilled with it, but understand it. It isn't something they just announced as people came to the event.

Yes. not thrilling. Makes more sense though.

[previously]

It just doesn't seem that hard to have activities for everyone. Clearly there are weight limits for some things and physical limitations, but BMI is a notoriously lousy measure of physical fitness.

[OkToBeTakei]

A couple of thoughts to the bolded:

* Lots of Scouting activities can cause injury or death, and none of them have to do with the amount of fat on a child's body. If the BSA were concerned about that, they wouldn't offer any wilderness experiences to their members, period.

* Generally when minors participate in organized activities like Scouting, the parent/guardian has to sign releases that absolve the organization from liability if their child is injured/killed so long as the organization didn't deliberately put the kids in danger (e.g., knowingly put them on a bus with no working brakes, knowingly feed them spoiled food, etc.). If there weren't such releases, very few school would offer field trips or organized sports, and organizations like the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts would find too liable to keep their doors open. You can be sure that all the people under 18 at that Jamboree have a parent or guardian who signed lots of waivers and other legal documents before they were allowed to enter the Jamboree grounds.

No I understand what you are saying. But an accident can not be foreseen. I think what they are protecting themselves from litigiously is the increased risk THEY perceive is present if somebody is overweight and or unfit. Not saying I agree with it. Just that I can see the difference. There still has to have been a better way of dealing with it.

We gave everybody loads of time to get fit and lose weight to be able to come on this is REALLY patronising and awful.

[BlondeAgent007]

I'm a little torn here. 40 is a very high BMI. I think all the kids should be required to have a physical by a doctor to participate, if they want to actually be fair and not exclusive. I understand the real concerns about safety that they're trying to avoid. Assuming a kid with a bmi of 33 is in danger of a heart attack and someone with a BMI of 16 isn't is ridiculous. My BMI is in the low 20's and I know tons of people much larger than me who could kick my ass hiking or doing high ropes courses. Physicals for everyone going if it's that dangerous, I say.

[Dysfundamental]

I'm a little torn here. 40 is a very high BMI. I think all the kids should be required to have a physical by a doctor to participate, if they want to actually be fair and not exclusive. I understand the real concerns about safety that they're trying to avoid. Assuming a kid with a bmi of 33 is in danger of a heart attack and someone with a BMI of 16 isn't is ridiculous. My BMI is in the low 20's and I know tons of people much larger than me who could kick my ass hiking or doing high ropes courses. Physicals for everyone going if it's that dangerous, I say.

Yes, this. If the hikes, etc., are dangerous for people with hypertension, they're dangerous for all people with hypertension regardless of their BMI.

[salex]

Yes, this. If the hikes, etc., are dangerous for people with hypertension, they're dangerous for all people with hypertension regardless of their BMI.

Which is why, on the link I gave, everyone has to have a physical once a year on file to particpate, as with school activities, etc.

I suspect the "they" in this is their insurers.