I had a bajillion kids and feeding them is hard!

[Arete]

And as long as the British Contigent is answering questions, I want to know about the Marmite and soy sauce in the Sheperd's Pie. Are they mixed into the meat? Pretty please??

[VooDooChild]

Well, if you can't afford to buy groceries, you certainly can't afford to start a garden. The start-up costs are not small in my opinion and unless you are seriously good and lucky at it, it will not pay for itself for a least a year or two, if ever. Gardening is an awesome hobby and the produce is delicious, but it is not cheaper than buying food; especially in most places in the U.S. where groceries are cheaper than they've ever been in history. If people are seriously trading tips about boiled potatoes 3 times/day, they certainly don't have the cash available to make that investment right now.

I suspect that a lot of these fundy families actually do apply for and collect food stamps, WIC, etc, they just don't admit to it on the internet.

Of course, you're right gardening costs money also. My perspective is from a woman who stopped at two because that is all we can afford. Also, a garden wouldn't be an if/then scenario in my view. But if funds were tight and I didn't have a garden, you could be sure that I would work, cut back on frivolities such as internet and try my hand at a few plants with the mind to grow more as time and funds allow. I may be oversimplifying things, true. But I just see myself being active to keep my family from going hungry rather than wringing my hands about it and posting my plight on the internet.

[JenXer]

I'm a member of that Facebook group and many, many of the posts drive me crazy. NOT everyone there is a fundie.

Q. How can I scam a hotel by booking one room for my family of 12?

A. Walk through the lobby with hubby and two kids and then let the rest in the back door.

Q. I've had three c-sections for dire reasons. But I really want a homebirth with this breech baby. What to do?

A. Trust your body! In the old days midwives would deliver all breeches with no problems!

Q. I had a baby six weeks ago and I'm still passing clots the size of lemons. Normal?

A. Totally. Take some herbs. Don't bother to call your doctor, I'm sure you're fine.

Q. I'm feeling super depressed and worthless. Normal?

A. Totally. Take some herbs. Don't bother to call your doctor, I'm sure you're fine.

Drives me crazy.

[So Many Lies]

^^ Ha, yeah. I really dislike a lot of the posters on there intensly. Like the fundie bloggers many maintain having huge litters of kids is because they're all about their kids and large families are better for the children. Blah blah. But actually it's almost always about the parent's delusions. And complaining about feeding them is so incredibly, typically selfish. Ugh.

[J'ean Skirt]

Yeah, my mum and brother make shepherd's pie with marmite and soy sauce. White sauce would horrify them.

The best shepherd's pie we made was from "Forgotten Skills of Cooking" by Darina Allen. Start with a roast leg of lamb, then cut the meat and sinew off the shank end, grind it and use that.

It. Was. Amazing.

That said, I do chicken pot pie with white sauce often. Not sure I've ever done a white sauce with shepherd's (or cottage) pie.

[OkToBeTakei]

Eeeew, yes, country gravy/sausage gravy is the devil's semen.

When you put a tablespoon of flour into the pan with the juices you're making a roux. The pan has a mix of watery stuff and fat, like the butter and watery mix you use in a pan. It's just less lumpy if you do the whole fat, then flour, then liquid thing. If I have a roasting pan of crusty stuff I'll deglaze it with something watery (water, veg or chicken stock), then skim the fat, use a tablespoon or two to make the gravy in a saucepan with flour and the tasty deglazings.

Intrigued with the thought of a reduction only. Only thing I roast that has that much liquid is turkey. What gives you enough to make gravy without additional liquid?

A very, very, very rare piece of beef lamb or game hehe! But if you deglaze with say sherry or port the sugar in the alcohol will thicken. Not greatly, but not all gravies/sauces need to be that thick. My preference is not for thick meat gravies. Had a thought for Lilith. If I'm making a Sunday dinner gravy from the roast I use the water from the veg I cook. You could always say use a purée of say turnip or a bit of carrot as thickening?

AreteJo, I hate Marmite :lol: but I get JFC's idea basically marmite is a beef extract and soy is salty, may try it. I use Worcestershire sauce in mine. Basically fry your onion, bit of butter some carrots, then really good steak mince. I let it simmer in it's own juices and add good beef stock Worcestershire sauce and err bit of wine. Because it is going in the oven it reduces anyway so no need for thickening. It seeps up the sides of the mash. Shit I'm hungry now and at work. I suppose everybody has their own wee additions to old classic comfort foods?

[lilith]

A very, very, very rare piece of beef lamb or game hehe! But if you deglaze with say sherry or port the sugar in the alcohol will thicken. Not greatly, but not all gravies/sauces need to be that thick. My preference is not for thick meat gravies. Had a thought for Lilith. If I'm making a Sunday dinner gravy from the roast I use the water from the veg I cook. You could always say use a purée of say turnip or a bit of carrot as thickening?

AreteJo, I hate Marmite :lol: but I get JFC's idea basically marmite is a beef extract and soy is salty, may try it. I use Worcestershire sauce in mine. Basically fry your onion, bit of butter some carrots, then really good steak mince. I let it simmer in it's own juices and add good beef stock Worcestershire sauce and err bit of wine. Because it is going in the oven it reduces anyway so no need for thickening. It seeps up the sides of the mash. Shit I'm hungry now and at work. I suppose everybody has their own wee additions to old classic comfort foods?

That's pretty much how I do it, OTBT, but I mix a tablespoon of flour in the simmering mince. Always with Worcestershire sauce and red wine too.

[lilith]

And I'm not crazy enough to try to low carb Shepard pie, just thinking of thickening sauces etc in general without flour.

[Arete]

OKTBT, I agree, Marmite is nasty. But so are anchovies, and those suckers go in some of my bean soups and other savory dishes. You don't know anchovies are there, but they do add something that is missing if you leave them out. Thanks for the Shepard's Pie tip! Can't wait for Fall again. :lol:

[Lillybee]

I make Cottage Pie with Thanksgiving leftovers, turkey, gravy, and mashed potatoes. So good.

[OkToBeTakei]

That's pretty much how I do it, OTBT, but I mix a tablespoon of flour in the simmering mince. Always with Worcestershire sauce and red wine too.

I just wouldn't add flour. Personal taste I guess. I always feel the mince and the potatoes does not need it. Saying that my friend can't believe I don't thicken my mince for mince and tatties. She calls me a heretic :lol: I have an anti-gloop stance.

Did I double post? Thread looks weird. Sorry if I did, no idea how to remove it on phone.

[August]

I use worcestershire sauce, because it has the anchovies nicely disguised already.

My cottage/shepherd/chicken pie recipe is derived from using up leftover roast meat. It's chopped roast meat plus gravy plus whatever cooked vegetables you had with it.

[OkToBeTakei]

I use worcestershire sauce, because it has the anchovies nicely disguised already.

My cottage/shepherd/chicken pie recipe is derived from using up leftover roast meat. It's chopped roast meat plus gravy plus whatever cooked vegetables you had with it.

I try this. Then when I go to the fridge the next day the meat is always gone :lol: never thought of using the whole dinner. Good tip. Only ever keep cabbage and pots for bubble and squeak.

[Dysfundamental]

And I'm not crazy enough to try to low carb Shepard pie, just thinking of thickening sauces etc in general without flour.

Low carb shepherd's pie isn't too complicated: you can use puréed cauliflower instead of potato, green beans instead of peas, and thicken the gravy with a duxelles puréed.

[constantgardener]

Of course, you're right gardening costs money also. My perspective is from a woman who stopped at two because that is all we can afford. Also, a garden wouldn't be an if/then scenario in my view. But if funds were tight and I didn't have a garden, you could be sure that I would work, cut back on frivolities such as internet and try my hand at a few plants with the mind to grow more as time and funds allow. I may be oversimplifying things, true. But I just see myself being active to keep my family from going hungry rather than wringing my hands about it and posting my plight on the internet.

Having grown fruit and veg for years I would say it is possible to start a garden with limited cash, but the less equipment you have the more work it's going to be, and the more time it takes. I know this has already been mentioned in this thread, but I can't see how you could run a decent sized veg garden if you're constantly pregnant, with toddlers at foot and older kids to homeschool. The year that my second son was born, I had 'two under two' and I grew nothing except a few courgettes and strawberries. Even now with my kids at school, a combination of weather and and part-time work means I am often hoeing at 9pm to keep things under control. And harvesting and storing is also time-consuming if you're not going to waste your efforts. I love growing food and I would never want to put anyone off trying, but a quick and easy way to get more food, it is not.

[JesusFightClub]

And as long as the British Contigent is answering questions, I want to know about the Marmite and soy sauce in the Sheperd's Pie. Are they mixed into the meat? Pretty please??

Yes, it's like OKToBe said :)

My mum adds that don't use as much as a tablespoon of Marmite. She uses half a teaspoon. It's only flavouring, if you put too much you will feel a bit dodgy...

She was also a bit bemused by "peas in shepherd's pie?" It's supposed to be a carrot, according to her.

[OkToBeTakei]

Yes, it's like OKToBe said :)

My mum adds that don't use as much as a tablespoon of Marmite. She uses half a teaspoon. It's only flavouring, if you put too much you will feel a bit dodgy...

She was also a bit bemused by "peas in shepherd's pie?" It's supposed to be a carrot, according to her.

I know!! I side eyed the pea reference :lol: Too funny all the different takes on old recipes.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Idiot. Seriously....idiot. If you can support multiple children, GREAT. Not my problem.

My problem is people like this who LOCK up food! Either you have a developmental problem in your child - not understanding things like "don't get into this cupboard" or you are starving them. I just don't get it. Don't you feel bad, esp when you have teenage boys who EVERYONE knows are going to eat more, and you are locking them out of food? I would totally bust my butt and get a job just so that my children would not have food locked away from them. Yikes. But no....please.....just go back into the bedroom and make another baby you can't afford to feed. Cuz that's the Godly option here.

To be fair, there are some disorders that cause people to have no control over their food intake. My friend's brother had one such disorder and they have to lock all cupboards and the fridge outside meal times.

That said, I've had people swear up and down that boys eat more than girls, but I beg to differ. My sister and I went to an all girls school and my brother went to our brother school. When my sister and I had friends over, all we seemed to do was eat. When my brother and his group of friends (which is significantly larger than my sister's or my groups were) are here, they might go through 1/4-1/2 of what we went through. And, my sister and I eat more than our brother (albeit we eat healthier, but still more), especially when we're hormonal.

Final note, you can feed hormonal and growing kids structured meals and not have it a requirement that they eat between meals and/or designated snack times. But a lot of kids and teens will eat even when they're not hungry because they have learned to associate food with boredom or certain activities. And that behavior will follow them to adulthood if left unchecked.

[julie paradox]

No no, the peas come WITH the shepherd's pie. Peas are the best veg to eat with mash!

I wouldn't bother thickening it either, though I have started thickening my chilli and bolognese (otherwise it leaks).

I used to put Marmite in my boiled rice, which I liked. Headship wasn't too keen though, and blessings don't like it at all. None of them will eat brown rice, either (pout).

[uber frau]

Having grown fruit and veg for years I would say it is possible to start a garden with limited cash, but the less equipment you have the more work it's going to be, and the more time it takes. I know this has already been mentioned in this thread, but I can't see how you could run a decent sized veg garden if you're constantly pregnant, with toddlers at foot and older kids to homeschool. The year that my second son was born, I had 'two under two' and I grew nothing except a few courgettes and strawberries. Even now with my kids at school, a combination of weather and and part-time work means I am often hoeing at 9pm to keep things under control. And harvesting and storing is also time-consuming if you're not going to waste your efforts. I love growing food and I would never want to put anyone off trying, but a quick and easy way to get more food, it is not.

It depends entirely where you live. Where I live the soil is sand, water is expensive and there is no rain for 6months of the year. Even with a lot of money to invest in soil and a bore it takes time to get anything like a productive garden. My sister lives on the other side of the country-her soil is good and you can throw a handful of potato peels and carrot tops in the corner of the garden and forget about them and, walla, free veg. But even then, it still takes time. Another thing fundie brood mares aren't exactly wallowing in.

[nelliebelle1197]

To be fair, there are some disorders that cause people to have no control over their food intake. My friend's brother had one such disorder and they have to lock all cupboards and the fridge outside meal times.

That said, I've had people swear up and down that boys eat more than girls, but I beg to differ. My sister and I went to an all girls school and my brother went to our brother school. When my sister and I had friends over, all we seemed to do was eat. When my brother and his group of friends (which is significantly larger than my sister's or my groups were) are here, they might go through 1/4-1/2 of what we went through. And, my sister and I eat more than our brother (albeit we eat healthier, but still more), especially when we're hormonal.

Final note, you can feed hormonal and growing kids structured meals and not have it a requirement that they eat between meals and/or designated snack times. But a lot of kids and teens will eat even when they're not hungry because they have learned to associate food with boredom or certain activities. And that behavior will follow them to adulthood if left unchecked.

I think those disorders are so rare that it is very likely not the issue with these families, and it perfectly fair to be horrified that they lock the cupboards because they cannot afford to feed their families. There is no excuse for that.

[Sumeri]

same here, only I let it simmer in beef stock with a few bay leaves. I don't thicken, either, mine isn't in a gravy, really. Sometimes if my son requests it I'll throw some shredded cheese on top of the meat before the potatoes. Not my cup of tea, but he likes it.

That's pretty much how I do it, OTBT, but I mix a tablespoon of flour in the simmering mince. Always with Worcestershire sauce and red wine too.

[docmom]

It's not just boys who get like this when teenagers.

My mum tells the story of making a 5 pound ham for a holiday dinner and leaving it in the kitchen to cool. When she went in to bring it to the table to serve it, my 14 yo sister (super skinny) had eaten the entire thing!

P.S. Keep the mince recipes coming. I've never been able to make good mince. Anyone do good dough balls?

[OkToBeTakei]

My mum tells the story of making a 5 pound ham for a holiday dinner and leaving it in the kitchen to cool. When she went in to bring it to the table to serve it, my 14 yo sister (super skinny) had eaten the entire thing!

P.S. Keep the mince recipes coming. I've never been able to make good mince. Anyone do good dough balls?

NEVER managed a good dough ball. Although mince and doughballs is the English version of mince and tatties I think.

I'll tell you the good mince secret. Steak mince, from the butcher, really everything else is fatty stringy horror. If you are in the UK Morrison's butcher steak mince is really not bad at all for a supermarket. But I would tend to use it for chilli, lasagne etc. When it has to stand alone as the main ingredient I think you have to buy the best you can. I'm still horrified by being a ten year old at a friends house as her Mum boiled her mince for a few minutes to skim the fat. Nearly put me off for life. Cheap mince = nasty!

Now I'm off to make macaroni cheese for dinner, I imagine again everybody has a huge variety for that. I'm making it because. I have all the ingredients in the house and I am fecking knackered after a nightshift. Left some bacon in the fridge, I see that has disappeared :lol:

[eowyn1217]

I think those disorders are so rare that it is very likely not the issue with these families, and it perfectly fair to be horrified that they lock the cupboards because they cannot afford to feed their families. There is no excuse for that.

Exactly. Rare cases...but breeding like rabbits (sadly) isn't a rare case.