Defiant HS Valedictorian Recites Lord's Prayer

[Mama Mia]

It's hurtful to the studwnts who are singled out because they are of another faith or of no faith. It can be painful and people can often be hostile to them. This is all part and parcel of Christian privilege.

I'm sorry, I still see that as being ridiculously overly sensitive. Why on earth would anyone expect everyone to be the same faith as them ( or to have a particular faith at all ). How is sharing your own viewpoint "hurtful". It could just has easily been someone offering up a different faiths prayer, or talking about how their career will be focused on saving the planet from over-population or global warming. Or talking about how their family struggled to cross the dessert to get here and how they are able to go to college because of recent immigration law changes. Or talking about how happy they are that they were the first openly gay prom king in their school. Or the mom of a toddler talking about how her schools teen parent program made all the difference in her ability to graduate. Or a billion other possibly controversial topics. Should those all be censored because someone will likely disagree or be made uncomfortable ? And more to the point - why should just hearing something you don't agree with make you feel excluded or uncomfortable ffs.

[church_of_dog]

I'm sorry, I still see that as being ridiculously overly sensitive. Why on earth would anyone expect everyone to be the same faith as them ( or to have a particular faith at all ). How is sharing your own viewpoint "hurtful". It could just has easily been someone offering up a different faiths prayer, or talking about how their career will be focused on saving the planet from over-population or global warming. Or talking about how their family struggled to cross the dessert to get here and how they are able to go to college because of recent immigration law changes. Or talking about how happy they are that they were the first openly gay prom king in their school. Or the mom of a toddler talking about how her schools teen parent program made all the difference in her ability to graduate. Or a billion other possibly controversial topics. Should those all be censored because someone will likely disagree or be made uncomfortable ? And more to the point - why should just hearing something you don't agree with make you feel excluded or uncomfortable ffs.

No, I think your examples are fundamentally (sorry, pun) different from what actually happened. Someone telling an anecdote in a speech -- not a problem. Someone giving their opinion -- also not a problem, even if they are describing something that not everyone in the audience agrees with. But a PRAYER is something that implies audience participation -- those for whom the prayer is meaningful/important are going to bow their heads and possibly pray out loud along with the speaker. Those actions then cause anyone who isn't praying along, to be noticeable. Even just declining to bow ones head while everyone else is praying becomes a noticeable act (I have been in that awkward position more times than I care to count). There is no place for that kind of pressure at an event like a graduation that is intended to be for all students and their friends and families.

Part of freedom of religion is not being forced to identify your beliefs or non-beliefs against your wishes.

[GeoBQn]

I was a speaker at my high school graduation. (My school didn't do valedictorians, so I had to audition.) Judaism is a very important part of my identity, but it never even occurred to me to mention G-d in my speech, or say a Jewish prayer. That's because I went to a public school where not everybody is Jewish, and I knew that it was wrong to force people to listen to a prayer that they don't believe in. Frankly, I don't think the graduation speech could have "just as easily been someone offering up a different faith's prayer," because 1. Lots of faiths outside of Christianity don't have the same imperative to convert people or publicly declare their faith, and 2. Because in a lot of areas, the prayer of a minority faith would have gotten boos or worse instead of cheers.

And yes, it DOES feel uncomfortable when you are confronted with something you don't believe in when it is in a forum where you cannot speak up, ask questions, or provide your own input. It's a feeling that people who are of the majority are probably not going to experience in their home communities. If I don't bow my head or join hands with my neighbor, will anybody notice? Will they ask me about it later? What happens when they find out I don't believe in Jesus? Will I get uncomfortably probing questions like that other time this situation happened? If I say I am uncomfortable or I try to offer my own prayer (which I wouldn't normally do if I was the first person to speak), will they think I'm weird or a killjoy? These are feelings I've heard from a lot of non-Christians, and it is NOT about being sheltered or closed to different viewpoints.

[jaynie]

I'm sorry, I still see that as being ridiculously overly sensitive. Why on earth would anyone expect everyone to be the same faith as them ( or to have a particular faith at all ). How is sharing your own viewpoint "hurtful". It could just has easily been someone offering up a different faiths prayer, or talking about how their career will be focused on saving the planet from over-population or global warming. Or talking about how their family struggled to cross the dessert to get here and how they are able to go to college because of recent immigration law changes. Or talking about how happy they are that they were the first openly gay prom king in their school. Or the mom of a toddler talking about how her schools teen parent program made all the difference in her ability to graduate. Or a billion other possibly controversial topics. Should those all be censored because someone will likely disagree or be made uncomfortable ? And more to the point - why should just hearing something you don't agree with make you feel excluded or uncomfortable ffs.

It is not really comparable to a gay person talking about coming out, or words from a different faith*, or talking about immigration laws, because those three things come from oppressed minorities. They are acts of bravery that are more likely to be mocked than cheered -- that may even expose them to harassment, or worse (I'm thinking of the gay prom king one, here). And if the school is totally accepting, they amount to personal stories -- not proselytizing.

Whereas Christians have a good deal of privileged as a majority -- and in a lot of places, non-christians are mistrusted, harassed, assaulted, kicked out of their own homes -- you name it. People are told repeatedly that muslims are terrorists, that jewish people killed jesus, that atheists are the scum of the earth, and these view points upheld by huge numbers of politicians. They hear every day that the USA is a Christian nation and that you can't be good without (the biblical) god. and that you can't get elected in a lot of places unless you're a regular church-goer. If people are tolerant of their differing faiths, they will still often be treated as novelties ("my jewish friend is so funny, and really good with money!").

It's not that people expect everyone to be the same faith (or non faith) they are -- it's that they would like to be able to attend a major school event -- in fact, a major life event -- without being subject to (yet another) Christian prayer, which serves as a reminder that in the eyes of the majority, they are less than.

*(and lets be real: if this had been an islamic prayer the exact same people who are supporting this guy would be outraged.)

[Mama Mia]

It is not really comparable to a gay person talking about coming out, or words from a different faith*, or talking about immigration laws, because those three things come from oppressed minorities. They are acts of bravery that are more likely to be mocked than cheered -- that may even expose them to harassment, or worse (I'm thinking of the gay prom king one, here). And if the school is totally accepting, they amount to personal stories -- not proselytizing.

Whereas Christians have a good deal of privileged as a majority -- and in a lot of places, non-christians are mistrusted, harassed, assaulted, kicked out of their own homes -- you name it. People are told repeatedly that muslims are terrorists, that jewish people killed jesus, that atheists are the scum of the earth, and these view points upheld by huge numbers of politicians. They hear every day that the USA is a Christian nation and that you can't be good without (the biblical) god. and that you can't get elected in a lot of places unless you're a regular church-goer. If people are tolerant of their differing faiths, they will still often be treated as novelties ("my jewish friend is so funny, and really good with money!").

It's not that people expect everyone to be the same faith (or non faith) they are -- it's that they would like to be able to attend a major school event -- in fact, a major life event -- without being subject to (yet another) Christian prayer, which serves as a reminder that in the eyes of the majority, they are less than.

*(and lets be real: if this had been an islamic prayer the exact same people who are supporting this guy would be outraged.)

Okay, maybe this is yet another of those location differences. Because where I am it is the person who feels upset hearing about over-population or the gay prom king who would be in minority. But the point is - so what ? I can understand if the entire theme of the graduation was religious or political, but people should be able to tolerate being a tiny bit out of their comfort zone without falling apart. And, in my opinion, if someone offered a Muslim prayer and people were offended - that would also be their problem.

My main problem at graduation ceremonies is staying awake, not completely zoning out during the speeches and making sure any little kids aren't creating havoc. The content of the speeches is not that big a deal.

[Arete]

A Muslim would be too afraid to offer a prayer at a graduation, lest political Christians start howling their outrage and bring the whole ceremony to a close.

The Lord's Prayer is not supposed to be a triumphalist prayer. The same person who originally taught it was pretty firm about ostentatious displays of piety. This kid needs to learn that one of the hard parts of Christianity is putting the comfort of others before your own. And honestly, what on God's green earth made him think he was doing something radical? It's not like he stood in the middle of Jeddah, Saudi Arabia and said a Christian prayer. It's the Bible Belt.

[oil]

And honestly, what on God's green earth made him think he was doing something radical?

If it wasnt radical there be no news reports on this. :lol: He thought he doing some thing radical because he was doing some thing radical to disobey the rule. Im happy he did it. I dont believe in his religion but I dont like to shut kids up. He can say a christian prayer, a call for gay marriage, troops out of Afghanistan etc and I would like his balls to say it. Good for him. If they people dont like it, oh well.

A Muslim would be too afraid to offer a prayer at a graduation, lest political Christians start howling their outrage and bring the whole ceremony to a close.

So many people are "howling their outrage" on this kid, only difference he wasnt afraid to offer the prayer. Criticise political christians if they howl at a muslim kid, but no criticism to those who howl over this christian kid? Hypocritical thinking.

[RosyDaisy]

Oh, dear. My cousin shared this on Facebook with the comment that it was awesome and that the applause was a testament. My family, while regular church attenders, are decidedly un-fundie, so his comment is a bit out of left field. Convince me not to reply...I don't want to start a family war.

Yeah, I wouldn't. An out of the blue FB posting isn't something to start a family war over. The article made it's rounds on my FB, and I just ignored it each time. I don't have the energy to debate fundie family members, especially when I know some of them do it deliberately to piss me off. I won't give them the satisfaction of goading me into a flame war.

[apple1]

The Lord's Prayer is not supposed to be a triumphalist prayer. The same person who originally taught it was pretty firm about ostentatious displays of piety.

Exactly (I self-identify as a Christian BTW).

[theologygeek]

Okay, maybe this is yet another of those location differences. Because where I am it is the person who feels upset hearing about over-population or the gay prom king who would be in minority. .

I just read this thread and am agreeing with everything you said, and almost posted that maybe this is a location thing. I'm in a "no one gives a shit what you do" state. We'd clap for the Muslim kid praying to Allah at graduation, we smile at the same sex married couples making out in public. No one cares.