Dr. Kermit Gosnell's Trial

[SeaSaltCaramel]

I didn't see a topic about this yet. I am still in quite disbelief that this is even true. How heartbreaking!

http://news.yahoo.com/why-dr-kermit-gosnells-trial-major-news-story-104719415--politics.html

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/gosnell.asp

[shrewlu]

It is a terrible, terrible situation. Here is the entire report from the grand jury - phila.gov/districtattorney/pdfs/grandjurywomensmedical.pdf

Be warned, there are photos and content in it that are very disturbing.

[MonkeyMomma]

This makes me so fucking ill and angry ... as someone who is planning on becoming an abortion provider at some point, how can someone be such a motherfucker, and so fucking cavalier? Just red in front of my eyeballs, that's all I see. :angry-banghead:

[Foxxit]

This jerk went too far, and he wasn't even following PA laws when it comes to abortions, and is just extremely SICK.

[Bloo]

And now all legit abortion providers will be compared to this piece of shit.

[MonkeyMomma]

And now all legit abortion providers will be compared to this piece of shit.

Yeah, and that too.

[NurseNell]

I don't believe in abortion or the death penalty. I might have to reconsider on the death penalty. It would be fitting to punch a hole in the back of his neck and cut his spinal cord in half. That grand jury report was very long but should be read to get the full picture of what this man and his employees did to women and their babies over the years. Several regulatory bodies in PA totally failed in their duties to the citizens of PA.

How did this man or any of his employees sleep at night? They are people without consciences, sociopaths. No one normal thinks that anything they did was acceptable, moral, or legal.

[Childless]

I don't believe in abortion or the death penalty. I might have to reconsider on the death penalty. It would be fitting to punch a hole in the back of his neck and cut his spinal cord in half. That grand jury report was very long but should be read to get the full picture of what this man and his employees did to women and their babies over the years. Several regulatory bodies in PA totally failed in their duties to the citizens of PA.

How did this man or any of his employees sleep at night? They are people without consciences, sociopaths. No one normal thinks that anything they did was acceptable, moral, or legal.

You don't believe in abortion? An abortion saved my life. You think I should be dead? You think my son, who wouldn't be here if I had died, shouldn't exist? I'm certainly glad laws are made on what you believe.

[Rosa]

I want to know why the state of Pennsylvania stopped investigating complaints about abortion clinics - because I'd bet it's because they were getting flooded with fake complaints.

Gosnell should have been stopped long before. I can't believe none of his staff ever came forward or complained to the board.

[NurseNell]

You don't believe in abortion? An abortion saved my life. You think I should be dead? You think my son, who wouldn't be here if I had died, shouldn't exist? I'm certainly glad laws are made on what you believe.

I didn't say anything about whether abortion should be legal or not, did I? I said I don't believe in abortion. I don't. I believe it must remain legal and I hope someday abortion is rarely needed. I don't know what you mean by you are certainly glad laws are made on what I believe.

I would hope that every person who reads about what this man and his staff did would be appalled by their actions.

[dianapavelovna]

Gosnell should have been stopped long before. I can't believe none of his staff ever came forward or complained to the board.

The even more rage-inducing thing: one did.

Almost a decade ago, a former employee of Gosnell presented the Board of Medicine with a complaint that laid out the whole scope of his operation: the unclean, unsterile conditions; the unlicensed workers; the unsupervised sedation; the underage abortion patients; even the over-prescribing of pain pills with high resale value on the street. The department assigned an investigator, whose investigation consisted primarily of an offsite interview with Gosnell. The investigator never inspected the facility, questioned other employees, or reviewed any records. Department attorneys chose to accept this incomplete investigation, and dismissed the complaint as unconfirmed.

[Trynn]

You don't "believe in" abortion? Well, I hate to break it to you, but, it exists.

(sorry it drives me nuts when people say "believe in" when they really mean "agree with.")

[formergothardite]

How desperate must these women had to have been to go to a place like this? And how the hell did the people who worked there live with themselves each day? And, yes, the anti-choice crowd will start acting like all abortions are like this.

[NurseNell]

You don't "believe in" abortion? Well, I hate to break it to you, but, it exists.

(sorry it drives me nuts when people say "believe in" when they really mean "agree with.")

You're kidding? Wow, I didn't know that. :pink-shock: I'm perfectly capable of saying what I mean. I don't agree with abortion, I also don't agree with the death sentence. It also exists in some states.

Back to Dr. Gosnell, did anyone else find it strange that an African American had so little respect for African American women and babies? He truly did not see them as having worth, they were expendable. I thought he came across as a eugenicist and a racist against his own race. Anyone who can stick a pair of scissors into a baby and cut the spinal cord is someone without a conscience. And what was with amputating and keeping feet in jars?

I wonder what the background story is on him. He's been married several times. I don't recall reading if he has children or grandchildren. Something had to make him the way he was. Maybe it was just pure greed.

[NurseNell]

How desperate must these women had to have been to go to a place like this? And how the hell did the people who worked there live with themselves each day? And, yes, the anti-choice crowd will start acting like all abortions are like this.

This.

How did that high school girl stand it, she was 15 when she started working there.

[Sola]

What the anti-abortionists fail to realise is that by outlawing abortion, you wont see less of this sort of thing, you'll see more of it.

When abortion was illegal there was a thriving network of underground abortionists. Some were good people who did their best to make abortion available and safe for women who needed it. Many were not. Many were unethical people with little medical training, who worked out of unsanitary basements, administered dangerous medications, all to make a fast buck because they knew there will always be desperate women who will seek abortion regardless of the legalities.

Make abortion illegal and you'll have more Dr Kermit Gosnells and you'll have more dead women and dead fetuses.

[NurseNell]

What the anti-abortionists fail to realise is that by outlawing abortion, you wont see less of this sort of thing, you'll see more of it.

When abortion was illegal there was a thriving network of underground abortionists. Some were good people who did their best to make abortion available and safe for women who needed it. Many were not. Many were unethical people with little medical training, who worked out of unsanitary basements, administered dangerous medications, all to make a fast buck because they knew there will always be desperate women who will seek abortion regardless of the legalities.

Make abortion illegal and you'll have more Dr Kermit Gosnells and you'll have more dead women and dead fetuses.

Very true Sola. This realization is what changed my views from thinking it should be outlawed to thinking it needs to remain legal but hopefully needed less and less.

[formergothardite]

What the anti-abortionists fail to realise is that by outlawing abortion, you wont see less of this sort of thing, you'll see more of it.

When abortion was illegal there was a thriving network of underground abortionists. Some were good people who did their best to make abortion available and safe for women who needed it. Many were not. Many were unethical people with little medical training, who worked out of unsanitary basements, administered dangerous medications, all to make a fast buck because they knew there will always be desperate women who will seek abortion regardless of the legalities.

Make abortion illegal and you'll have more Dr Kermit Gosnells and you'll have more dead women and dead fetuses.

Exactly. We have already created a country where women will be desperate enough to go to a man like this, if abortion is made illegal or harder to get than it is now, then there is just going to be more and more stories like this. This man was evil. He took advantage of these women's situations and exploited them for money. It would be interesting to find out the back stories of the women who came to them. Unlike anti-choice propaganda states, women usually don't have late term abortions because they woke up one day and are bored with being pregnant. There is a reason these women were at the point that they would walk into a place like that and put their lives in his hands.

The answer to lowering the abortion rate is never making it illegal or harder to get.

[Salamander]

Back to Dr. Gosnell, did anyone else find it strange that an African American had so little respect for African American women and babies? He truly did not see them as having worth, they were expendable. I thought he came across as a eugenicist and a racist against his own race.

I didn't find this "strange." He grew up in a racist, misogynistic society, like we all did, he internalized racism and misogyny, and women (especially women of color) and infants suffered for it. It strikes me as holding a person of color to a higher standard in anti-racism than white people to say that this aspect of the horrible situation was "strange."

[FakePigtails]

From what I'm seeing the fundie reaction to the media coverage of this is shock because abortion+media and the media not having covered it until now but disappointment because the focus is all on the women, ignoring the fetuses and babies.

I also completely agree with those above saying this is the type of thing we'd see more of with an abortion ban (or too many restrictions).

[alchemy]

This case prompted one of my fundie friends to post this link on my timeline.

foxnews.com/opinion/2013/04/10/monstrous-abortion-trial-that-media-dont-want-to-know-about/

with the note " All abortion supporters should have to hear this testimony, and if it doesn't change their minds I won't be surprised if they're tormented with the sounds of crying babies for eternity."

I didn't want to break it to him that I'd already heard the details, and I was sickened, but it doesn't change my position on abortion. One bastard criminal outlier in the abortion business doesn't make them all that way any more than that plastic surgeon pumping industrial silicone into celebrities is a reason to condemn all plastic surgeons. And like some of you've said above, if abortion becomes illegal practices like Gosnell's are likely to become more common.

[lilwriter85]

This case prompted one of my fundie friends to post this link on my timeline.

foxnews.com/opinion/2013/04/10/monstrous-abortion-trial-that-media-dont-want-to-know-about/

with the note " All abortion supporters should have to hear this testimony, and if it doesn't change their minds I won't be surprised if they're tormented with the sounds of crying babies for eternity."

I didn't want to break it to him that I'd already heard the details, and I was sickened, but it doesn't change my position on abortion. One bastard criminal outlier in the abortion business doesn't make them all that way any more than that plastic surgeon pumping industrial silicone into celebrities is a reason to condemn all plastic surgeons. And like some of you've said above, if abortion becomes illegal practices like Gosnell's are likely to become more common.

I agree with all of this. I feel bad for responsible abortion providers who are dealing with backlash due in part to Gosnell.

[WonderingInWA]

I hadn't heard about this case until today. And I agree, this is going to give the anti-abortionists a lot of ammunition.

This man is a monster. I have never heard of such a gruesome way to abort a fetus (or to finish it off if it is born alive). I don't understand how this man fell through the cracks but I'm glad he will be brought to justice eventually (and hopefully some of his employees, as well). They only have two of the baby bodies (according to what I read) as evidence -- I guess the rest were destroyed. I'd love to know the backstory on who saved the two bodies and why. Maybe it's in the grand jury story, but I haven't read that yet.

Snipping. Holy shit. That's just unfathomable.

[Carla Bruni]

I completely agree with everyone who said that this is a glimpse into what the world would look like if abortion were made illegal. What we should be trying to figure out is a) why his patients came to him in the first place; b) what prevented them from seeking abortion care earlier on and elsewhere; and c) what sorts of conditions need to be created in lower-income communities to prevent this from happening again.

[WonderingInWA]

I am on page 44 of about 300 pages of the grand jury report. OMG. This man and his clinic -- such a monster.

My guess is this guy is going to kill himself so he doesn't have to face the music, although I don't know what the current status of the case is. Still reading...