Dr. Kermit Gosnell's Trial

[Alice_Fraggle]

Treemom, I believe you are not being dishonest. I see we only have different view or the word used.

Why did he do it that way? why he didnt do the protocol way like every other abortion doctor. Did it get answered in court why he did it like that? Is he getting a pleasure from it? I cant find an answer from reading. He is a scary man if he doing it for sick mental reasons.

I believe the answer to your last question is - money. It costs more to do it the right and safe way. He made money hand over fist by not buying new supplies (it said he reused items that are supposed to be disposable), not cleaning supplies (many women got STDs from his practice because he didn't sterilize his equipment), using cheap (although dangerous) pain killers, and so on. He wanted to make money - not take care of women who chose to abort their pregnancy.

[formergothardite]

Oil, do you believe an abortion like Treemom has is killing in the same way someone killing a live baby is killing? Are those are equal to you? An abortion is killing a fetus, but it isn't the same as killing a baby who is no longer dependent on the mother for support.

Storing hazardous wastes in used pickle jars just really isn't viewed as safe here.

I'm not offended by questions, I'm just confused as to why three times you have brought up a controversial subject if you don't really care about it.

~asking twice on one thread about if people thought women should have third trimester abortions when that part of the abortion debate wasn't being discussed is bringing it up~

[oil]

He was breaking the law by not disposing of bio-waste properly.

Thank you! I dint know it was against the law. I thought it was just his gruesome choice but still legal.

[oil]

I'm not offended by questions, I'm just confused as to why three times you have brought up a controversial subject if you don't really care about it.

I will talk to you in private on this because I feel like you think Im an abortion controversy person and Im not. I dont even want to discuss it any more. If I answer it will be like I want controversy in a discussion and I dont. I didnt bring it up I only joined in the discussion.

Treemom did what she wanted and I respect her decision. I decided now that my opinion if its killing or not will stay to be my own business of opinion since it doesnt help me (may be people will say I believe in killing babys) and it doesnt help Treemom or any other woman to know my view on that word.

[Alice_Fraggle]

Thank you! I dint know it was against the law. I thought it was just his gruesome choice but still legal.

You're welcome. :) It's so very illegal, but in his case, it may be for gruesome factor and/or a way to keep "trophies" of his killing. To me this man seems like a serial killer. He lured women into unsafe conditions to brutally attack (although they were drugged) helpless women. (I'm reading the grand jury report, and getting more disgusted every minute).

[formergothardite]

I don't have these sorts of conversations in private. If you don't want to discuss it anymore, just stop discussing it.

[oil]

I don't have these sorts of conversations in private. If you don't want to discuss it anymore, just stop discussing it.

Oh sorry, I sent it already. LOL It wasnt conversation, only explanation. I will post the message here then so its not private any more.

[oil]

Hi

Sent: Tue May 14, 2013 3:44 pm

From: oil

To: formergothardite

Im dont want to discuss the abortion any more, ok, because I am having a problem expressing my self clearly and with saying "killing"I offend people I think. I dont care about who wants abortion or when they want it. Its not my best topic to like talking about. When I read this thread and there was another one I forgot, I got so curious about the ones who say yes to any abortion with BUT BUT BUT. I wanted to know why they say abortion on demand for the women own authority of her body, but then they say not to a 8 month abortion for no reason. Its still her own body, yes?

Now I realize I dont need to know the beliefs of the women who say that. Its their own private view and may be its hard to deal with it. Thats why I said "not honest". But I didnt mean like a lyer, I meant like it to use softer words. I am making a problem for my self on that thread because I dont want to be in a abortion debate and I dont want to know their views on late term abortion any more. Its not my business and I delete my questions. I hope you can understand what I writing, its not easy to know if I am clear.

Now Im going see what Josh is putting to Instagram!

[treemom]

I think its disgusting the same way its disgusting as putiing it in biotrash bag. But the fetus cant need compassion when its dead. The only compassion would be for the woman not to see where it goes. Compassion so then put it in a coffin. In Israel they do it the same way as US I think, biotrash and not jars.

Dude it is compassionate for the patient. It doesn't matter if she knows or not, it isn't an appropriate level of care.

This doesn't in general happen for say a spleen.

[treemom]

I think its disgusting the same way its disgusting as putiing it in biotrash bag. But the fetus cant need compassion when its dead. The only compassion would be for the woman not to see where it goes. Compassion so then put it in a coffin. In Israel they do it the same way as US I think, biotrash and not jars.

Oh and my fetus did go in a coffin. That isn't uncommon in late term abortions. Although sometimes patients don't want to see the fetus at all and it is disposed of in a legal manner.

[treemom]

I think I also misunderstood you. I understand what you mean now (about disposing of the bodies). They need to be disposed of, not necessarily compassionately, but just disposed of in general. He didn't dispose of them (at least not all of them). He was breaking the law by not disposing of bio-waste properly. Those bodies could harbor all sorts of nastiness, and he didn't seem to care in the slightest. It's disgusting.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to be mean to you - I really don't mean to at all. I'm just gobsmacked at the way the whole thing was run. Early, mid or late abortions aren't my business, but they should at least be done safely, and responsibly - taking the mother into account. For crying out loud (this whole thing really upsets me) there were DEAD BABIES (I think of them as babies, as a great deal of them took breaths outside of their mothers' bodies) in the STAFF LUNCH FRIDGE! How can you work there? (I'm sure it comes down to *needing a job* - in this economy I'm sure I'd do things I didn't *want* to do to make money if I needed to, but I'd never work in a clinic like this one!) I hope the people who worked there have nightmares for not standing up for those babies and women.

Does anyone know if the workers will be charged with anything? Reckless endangerment or something? In my opinion - some of them are responsible as well.

My heart goes out to all the women who went there; to those that lived, and those that died - I hope they can rest in peace. I can't imagine the horror of waking up in that house of horrors.

I think a standard of care that is compassionate for the patient (the woman) is to not chop off feet and store it in a jar without permission.

But he went far beyond that even. This is not the average care for a woman in this situation.

[treemom]

I will talk to you in private on this because I feel like you think Im an abortion controversy person and Im not. I dont even want to discuss it any more. If I answer it will be like I want controversy in a discussion and I dont. I didnt bring it up I only joined in the discussion.

Treemom did what she wanted and I respect her decision. I decided now that my opinion if its killing or not will stay to be my own business of opinion since it doesnt help me (may be people will say I believe in killing babys) and it doesnt help Treemom or any other woman to know my view on that word.

I am assuming this is a difference between American English and not American English, but I wouldn't use the word want. In fact had you read my story you probably would understand it.

[Alice_Fraggle]

I think a standard of care that is compassionate for the patient (the woman) is to not chop off feet and store it in a jar without permission.

But he went far beyond that even. This is not the average care for a woman in this situation.

I agree, but in this case he didn't have compassion for anyone so I guess I'd rather he actually dispose of the little bodies than keep them sitting around.

[laura oz]

Treemom, I just read your story, and God, I am so very sorry. I had never thought about those kind of circumstances before, and your circumstances have given me a lot to think about. I've never been either for or against late term abortions, I just assumed they were done when the mother was in life threatening danger. This makes me see it in a new light.

[treemom]

Treemom, I just read your story, and God, I am so very sorry. I had never thought about those kind of circumstances before, and your circumstances have given me a lot to think about. I've never been either for or against late term abortions, I just assumed they were done when the mother was in life threatening danger. This makes me see it in a new light.

Thank you. There are a ton of reasons they are done, but I hear so much non-factual stuff about them I really felt like I had to come out of the "I had an abortion" cupboard.

At the same time, while my reasons might seem better or more right, I learned going through that you never know what is truly going on behind the scenes.

[OkToBeTakei]

Language and culture issues. Also personalities.

It was clear to me from the get go what oil meant. I wonder if some choose to deliberately misunderstand because in translation it does not always come across as acceptable words to use.

I work with a girl who is not a native English speaker. When I asked her how a patient was today she replied with gravitas and compassion. 'She will be dying soon.'

Fairly straight to the point. Her English is way better than my Polish though.

[formergothardite]

Hi

Sent: Tue May 14, 2013 3:44 pm

From: oil

To: formergothardite

Im dont want to discuss the abortion any more, ok, because I am having a problem expressing my self clearly and with saying "killing"I offend people I think. I dont care about who wants abortion or when they want it. Its not my best topic to like talking about. When I read this thread and there was another one I forgot, I got so curious about the ones who say yes to any abortion with BUT BUT BUT. I wanted to know why they say abortion on demand for the women own authority of her body, but then they say not to a 8 month abortion for no reason. Its still her own body, yes?

Now I realize I dont need to know the beliefs of the women who say that. Its their own private view and may be its hard to deal with it. Thats why I said "not honest". But I didnt mean like a lyer, I meant like it to use softer words. I am making a problem for my self on that thread because I dont want to be in a abortion debate and I dont want to know their views on late term abortion any more. Its not my business and I delete my questions. I hope you can understand what I writing, its not easy to know if I am clear.

Now Im going see what Josh is putting to Instagram!

I now get what you were asking in the other threads. I thought you were asking people why late term abortions should be allowed, when what you were really asking is why people would not allow late term abortions.

I think this is just one of those translation things where we are all actually agreeing with each other. :lol:

[treemom]

Language and culture issues. Also personalities.

It was clear to me from the get go what oil meant. I wonder if some choose to deliberately misunderstand because in translation it does not always come across as acceptable words to use.

I work with a girl who is not a native English speaker. When I asked her how a patient was today she replied with gravitas and compassion. 'She will be dying soon.'

Fairly straight to the point. Her English is way better than my Polish though.

Deliberately?

[oil]

I work with a girl who is not a native English speaker. When I asked her how a patient was today she replied with gravitas and compassion. 'She will be dying soon.'

Ok I will be VERY care full about what the fuck I say! LOL "She will be dying soon" is wrong to say??

[treemom]

Ok I will be VERY care full about what the fuck I say! LOL "She will be dying soon" is wrong to say??

I don't think it is bad. :)

[oil]

I now get what you were asking in the other threads. I thought you were asking people why late term abortions should be allowed, when what you were really asking is why people would not allow late term abortions.

I think this is just one of those translation things where we are all actually agreeing with each other. :lol:

YES! I dont care if you disagree with me, I only want you to understand what I mean! I am so excited now so stupid like yay!! This is the most English writing ever I have done, even more than school and I studyied English for 6 years in school. Its not easy because its the different alpha bet to do with the different words. I will get better. I learned "twat" today! Thank you oktobetakei! LOL

My brain sees this> המוח שלי רואה את זה :lol:

[OkToBeTakei]

Deliberately?

Why not? It is a conversation between two professionals. I would probably have said. 'Bless her, I don't think she will be here in the morning.'

Same nurse told the relatives, 'She is very comfortable, how are you all being tonight, would you like me to sit with you?'

Nuance is difficult. 'I will kill your fetus in utero.' To 'I will use a medication to stop the fetus' heart.' To some the first is callous and the second is comfortable and kind. The act is the same. Importantly I think oil is seeing the difference. What I do disagree with is as on this thread as on another she has repeatedly said she has no problem with abortion. She just asked some rather pointed questions and was answered on some and misinterpreted on others in my view.

[treemom]

YES! I dont care if you disagree with me, I only want you to understand what I mean! I am so excited now so stupid like yay!! This is the most English writing ever I have done, even more than school and I studyied English for 6 years in school. Its not easy because its the different alpha bet to do with the different words. I will get better. I learned "twat" today! Thank you oktobetakei! LOL

My brain sees this> המוח שלי רואה את זה :lol:

Ah, yes you are very good at English then. I wonder how much these types of interactions help.

I am going to assume that your use of want meant "what she chose because it seemed like the right thing"

[treemom]

Why not? It is a conversation between two professionals. I would probably have said. 'Bless her, I don't think she will be here in the morning.'

Same nurse told the relatives, 'She is very comfortable, how are you all being tonight, would you like me to sit with you?'

Nuance is difficult. 'I will kill your fetus in utero.' To 'I will use a medication to stop the fetus' heart.' To some the first is callous and the second is comfortable and kind. The act is the same. Importantly I think oil is seeing the difference. What I do disagree with is as on this thread as on another she has repeatedly said she has no problem with abortion. She just asked some rather pointed questions and was answered on some and misinterpreted on others in my view.

I meant why do you think someone here is deliberately misunderstanding?

[OkToBeTakei]

I meant why do you think someone here is deliberately misunderstanding?

Maybe because the language is more straight to the point in the last few pages. As I said though that was just my interpretation. Which goes to show that this medium is difficult to interpret nuance. We sanitise our language and it's use as in my example.