Kelly. Just stop.

[JesusFightClub]

We've discussed the contents of the main post here before but she so needs to take a chill pill on the comments:

generationcedar.com/main/2013/01/feminism-the-real-war-against-women.html

She comes across as completely illogical and hysterical with rage, a bad combo.

Of course the holocaust isn’t a toy; that’s the point. And neither is abortion. Evokes emotion? Yes! But clearly, abortion doesn’t evoke the same emotion in you, and it should. How can you call my defense of defenseless life a “political agenda� That is as infuriating as if you were to defend Hitler for his.

OK, so pointing out the fact that nicking the history of the Holocaust for your political agenda is fairly off is the same as defending the slaughter of millions of Jews. Right, because that makes loads of sense.

Also, "political agenda" is as much an insult as, well, nothing. Anyone involved in bigger questions with an impact on society has one.

Additionally, based on your logic, or lack thereof, taking a life is worthy of defense only if the taking is “tortuous or visibly horrificâ€. So, that gives one permission to end your life, as long as they do it painlessly, but for whatever reason they deem sufficient

Why does "it's OK to end a life quickly and painlessly" translate in Kelly's excuse for a brain as "Now, kill everyone if you feel like it"?

I would suggest you find another corner to the net to offer your persuasions.

Why are the homeschooling fundies the thick ones? If that was actually acceptable English I'd be learning Gaelic as we speak.

Seriously. I didn't even study English at university and if I'd handed in a sentence like that on my course papers, I don't like to think what would have happened. The idea of these people homeschooling gives me the horrors.

Are you honestly expecting any reader here to believe that,

“a fetus that has not yet developed the biological ability to feel pain does not feel pain.â€

isn’t the same as “a baby can’t feel pain�

Considering those are two completely different points, Kelly, yes.

[X] cannot feel pain. Therefore [X] upon dying, will not feel pain.

[Y] can feel pain. Therefore [Y] upon dying will feel pain.

[X] and [Y] are not the same.

These comments are shocking. Subhuman.

You know when you say that word and then call people Nazis for disagreeing with you? You lose some of your moral point.

[Effie]

I really enjoyed your analysis of Kelly's arguments. :D

[formergothardite]

So now people who don't agree with Kelly are subhuman? And she really has no critical thinking skills does she?

[Effie]

And she really has no critical thinking skills does she?

Naah, I'm really starting to question whether she has that capability. I guess that explains why her oldest almost 19 year-old child says: "But I still think that..." when she can't refute an argument. What you think or feel doesn't change reality -sorry.

[Three and Done]

So now people who don't agree with Kelly are subhuman? And she really has no critical thinking skills does she?

No, she doesn't. Add her obvious lack of English proficiency, and walla - the perfect person to be "teaching" children! :roll:

(It actually hurt to type "walla"...)

[GolightlyGrrl]

No, she doesn't. Add her obvious lack of English proficiency, and walla - the perfect person to be "teaching" children! :roll:

(It actually hurt to type "walla"...)

And if I'm not mistaken, I believe Kelly was an English major in college. That is truly frightening.

I just finished reading Kelly's screed and the comments. Okay, fess up-which one of you is Alice?

[RachelB]

Are you honestly expecting any reader here to believe that,

“a fetus that has not yet developed the biological ability to feel pain does not feel pain.â€

isn’t the same as “a baby can’t feel pain�

Oh, for fuck's sake.

From an L.A. Times op/ed that examined anti-abortion arguments positing that fetal pain preceded 20 weeks gestational age:

What new scientific evidence did Nebraska's legislature look to? In accordance with regular legislative practice, all testimony on the bill was heard by a small fraction of the 44 lawmakers who ultimately voted for it. Two witnesses testified on the topic of fetal pain. One was an expert in pain management and anesthesiology who admitted he had no personal experience treating or studying fetuses. The second was a pain expert who had administered fetal anesthesia in a neonatal intensive care unit, but only starting at 23 weeks. He also asserted that "life begins at conception" according to his "religious viewpoint" and his "maker." (This same doctor, venturing far beyond his apparent medical expertise, spontaneously volunteered that electroshock therapy to induce a grand mal seizure should be the preferred treatment over abortion for a suicidal woman 20 or more weeks pregnant.) It can hardly be said that Nebraska lawmakers learned of some new and authoritative evidence on fetal pain.

The fact is that there is nothing approaching a scientific consensus on fetal pain at 20 weeks' gestation. We should all support continuing objective, sound research on whether and when fetuses perceive pain. But the Nebraska legislature didn't want to wait for that, because scientific truth was not the point.

The Journal of the American Medical Association is of the opinion that it is unlikely that fetuses can feel pain prior to the third trimester, based on what we know from observing neonates:

Fetal awareness of noxious stimuli requires functional thalamocortical connections. Thalamocortical fibers begin appearing between 23 to 30 weeks’ gestational age, while electroencephalography suggests the capacity for functional pain perception in preterm neonates probably does not exist before 29 or 30 weeks.

I would take the word of, you know, actual researchers over someone whose opinions are politically derived rather than based in evidence.

And then there's Pharyngula's excellent explanation of a 2006 article on pain and fetal development (the article itself is behind a paywall). But of course no fundie is going to take an avowed atheist's word on what science is and how it's done.

[kaetrin]

For all-time stupid in the comments, I think we must look to the following (from my memory, sorry):

1. "Fetus" is just a Latin word that means "baby" so there is no difference between a fetus and a baby. Also we don't speak Latin any more.

2. When you put something in front of "-ist" it usually means you are against it. So why are "racist" and "sexist" bad words but "feminist" isn't?

Real zingers, those! I will immediately repent my evil ways!

:angry-banghead:

[Izzybee]

2. When you put something in front of "-ist" it usually means you are against it. So why are "racist" and "sexist" bad words but "feminist" isn't?

Real zingers, those! I will immediately repent my evil ways!

:angry-banghead:

I'll let all the dentists and geneticists I know that they've got to start campaigning against teeth and genes right now!

[Wolfie]

I'll let all the dentists and geneticists I know that they've got to start campaigning against teeth and genes right now!

So all specialists are bad too?

ETA- they do take their kids to the vet so they probably do think that medical specialists are bad at least.

[kaetrin]

I almost replied sympathizing with the distaste she must also have for capitalists, but thought better of it.

[Izzybee]

Yup. She probably hates scientists, too.

[Bbfamteam]

For all-time stupid in the comments, I think we must look to the following (from my memory, sorry):

1. "Fetus" is just a Latin word that means "baby" so there is no difference between a fetus and a baby. Also we don't speak Latin any more.

2. When you put something in front of "-ist" it usually means you are against it. So why are "racist" and "sexist" bad words but "feminist" isn't?

Real zingers, those! I will immediately repent my evil ways!

:angry-banghead:

Hmm. Legalist should also be a bad word by that definition but that hasn't stopped the fundies yet.

[Three and Done]

Well, how about dominionist? :lol:

[Arete]

It really sent a chill down my spine when she sent the "subhuman" insult to JFC as a supposed answer to JFC's points. I studied a variety of genocides in college for about a year, and the one thing they all had in common was the use of words like '"subhuman" to describe the population that was to be exterminated. Whether you were talking about Jews in Europe, Muslims in Kosovo, Armenians in Turkey, native populations in the US, the first rule of "othering" them was to imply they were somehow less than human. I don't think Kelly's choice of words is an accident. I think her and her kind raise their children to "other" different human beings and lifestyles, and that kind of language is exactly what makes it so easy for them to kill a abortion provider and harrass and possibly kill a woman who has had an abortion.

My alarm bells are really ringing loud right now.

[Effie]

That Natalie-person who always come in during the conversations at GC to insult the readers who dare to disagree, really makes an embarrassment of herself. Her preteen-meanness makes me feel embarrassed for her.

Some of the comments here are a perfect illustration of the results of cultural brainwashing. Here’s a fun definition I found online: “Disregarding (even forcibly) established facts, in order to support preconceived notions. Repetitive speech, thought, relayed from whatever the source was. Catch phrases, tag-lines.†Lila, Lori and Alice, (and maybe Cindy who wants to sound smart but is only showing her inability to Google, thanks for the laughs. But Alice, you take the cake today.

Nathalie, this is how much I would care, if I had been one of the listed people:

[latraviata]

Well, how about dominionist? :lol:

Or florist.

[Dinorah]

Her idea that abortion caused much more horror than it does now is just wrong. Until fairly recently it was commonplace to suffocate or at least let die malformed newborns. And, in a world were infant mortality was extremely high, who would really get that upset about fetuses.

Not to mention that it was Fred Clark from Slacktivist, I think, who pointed out that traditionally Protestants saw being anti-abortion something Catholic and therefore vaguely suspicious.

[latraviata]

Her idea that abortion caused much more horror than it does now is just wrong. Until fairly recently it was commonplace to suffocate or at least let die malformed newborns. And, in a world were infant mortality was extremely high, who would really get that upset about fetuses.

Not to mention that it was Fred Clark from Slacktivist, I think, who pointed out that traditionally Protestants saw being anti-abortion something Catholic and therefore vaguely suspicious.

I really don't understand why people talk about a baby or even a fetus. In the early stage (6 à 8 weeks 10 weeks after the last period) is called an embryo.

[Boogalou]

Well, how about dominionist? :lol:

Fundamentalist?

Baptist?

[JesusFightClub]

Or. er, Trotskyist :)

It's why I say FJists and not FJites. If you call a Trotskyist a Trotskyite we all know what you're about and it's not pleasant :shock: The two terms carry a different cultural weight. One's a description, the other one's distinctly unfriendly.

The...ist ending is a neutral one.