Just hide the damn candy

[Minerva]

What a lovely person she is. Teasing/baiting a two year old. Thats sick. Obviously she thinks she is teaching and testing his self control. NEWSFLASH!!! Two year olds dont have it.

I also agree that this poor kid is craving attention. As they say, negative attention is better than no attention.

Finally she appears to be testing her husband as well if he is diabetic. Does she think she is god and they are living in eden? If so she should plant an apple tree or something. Whatever, she is a sick bitch.

PS: spanking is lazy parenting. Efffective parenting without physical punishment takes work. Hitting is brainless.

That's exactly what it is. Teasing small children is a common childhood habit, but apparently some adults do it, too.

And shit, the kid's 2! I can see leaving a bucket of candy in the reach of an 8 year old and expect them not to take any, but 2? No two-year-old is developed enough to understand the reasons for not eating candy without permission, not even this one who sounds bright. And that's the only way humans can be relied upon to follow rules - by understanding them. Problem is fundies think it's all about unquestioning obedience. Following rules because I said so.

[Witsec7]

Perhaps it isn't legally considered abuse, but I can assure you that anytime an adult hits a child it is abuse.

I would love to see someone come here and tell us that a husband hitting his wife wasn't always abuse. People would come out of their fucking trees.

QFT

[dawbs]

When I worked day-to-day in classrooms (more than I do now), one of the things I learned early on is NOT to say precisely what the punishment would be. I hated being locked in to what I had said.

I mean, if I say "anyone who hits will have to spend 5 minutes in the naughty chair" (note, I did not have a naughty chair, I'm just trying to come up w/ a punishment), then I'm screwed in 2 ways when Janey hits.

Way 1 would be that Janey is a reasonable kid who was driven to distraction and who lashed out and smacked Billy. Janey does need consequences bu it may be a situation where that punishment, for Janey in that situation, sucks and is to harsh.

Way 2 would be that Janey is a conniving youngster and isn't bothered by the naught chair, at least not much. Janey can do a 5 year-old's version of a cost/benefit analysis and determine that it is SO worth it to smack Billy around for the 'cost' of that punishment.

All around, having ONE and only 1 'go to' punishment is a major illustration of 1-not knowing/understanding your individual child well enough to know what works/doesn't work for that kid and 2-not being creative/imaginative enough to come up with more solutions--you know, ones that WORK>

(all that said, my 2-yo finished the last of her Halloween candy this morning.... It was 'in sight' in the green pumpkin, on the counter, since Halloween. I've watched kids battle to the blood about kids and candy...and I decided we'd deal w/ it on the fly. My kid didn't demand candy...she, about 1x per day, asked "momma, I has candy now? (please)". And, usually, 1x per day, I would say "okay, one piece" and let her have one --and if it was bad timing, I would say "you can have some candy after you eat your dinner."

Granted, it would be harder to keep it out of reach if there were other kids in the house...but by making it accessible (by asking--she couldn't reach it but could ask), it made it a treat but not a 'forbidden fruit'.

I consider that a win--and it wouldn't work that way for all kids, but I'm glad we tried and succeeded, for now at least, in making it a, in the words of Cookie monster, "a sometimes food")

[Hisey]

QFT

Really? So a parent who whacks a two-year old on the butt--one time--has committed child abuse? Even if the parent hasn't done it before or since?

Abuse is far more than a whack on a 2-year olds' butt. When you use the term "abuse" to apply to situations like that, you are trivializing real abuse. When an overwhelmed parent smacks the bottom of a tantruming 5-year old , that is bad parenting. It is not abuse.

If you call all corporal punishment "abuse", then you are watering down that term, and that causes people to take real abuse far less seriously.

[Koala]

Really? So a parent who whacks a two-year old on the butt--one time--has committed child abuse? Even if the parent hasn't done it before or since?

Abuse is far more than a whack on a 2-year olds' butt. When you use the term "abuse" to apply to situations like that, you are trivializing real abuse. When an overwhelmed parent smacks the bottom of a tantruming 5-year old , that is bad parenting. It is not abuse.

If you call all corporal punishment "abuse", then you are watering down that term, and that causes people to take real abuse far less seriously.

Yes, really. I believe if you hit a child you are committing the act of abuse. I don't really give a shit whether you like that term or not. If I remember correctly, you are also the one that thinks it's okay to give crazies like Kendull babies (via adoption), cause hey, it could be worse. :roll:

I wonder, if a husband slaps his wife in the face (just once!) is it okay to call that abuse, or should I reserve that term for women who really have the shit beat out of them?

No one is saying that there aren't different levels of abuse, but hitting is violent, and as far as I'm concerned, and adult hitting a child is abuse.

[Guest Anonymous]

Really? So a parent who whacks a two-year old on the butt--one time--has committed child abuse? Even if the parent hasn't done it before or since?

Abuse is far more than a whack on a 2-year olds' butt. When you use the term "abuse" to apply to situations like that, you are trivializing real abuse. When an overwhelmed parent smacks the bottom of a tantruming 5-year old , that is bad parenting. It is not abuse.

If you call all corporal punishment "abuse", then you are watering down that term, and that causes people to take real abuse far less seriously.

I wasn't sure about this, but the example given is a good one. If a husband whacks his wife once (overwhelmed, never do it again, blah blah blah, all the stuff you said) I would consider that abuse, so why not apply the same rule to a child?

[Koala]

Yes really. I believe if you hit a child you are committing the act of abuse. I don't really give a shit whether you like that term or not. If I remember correctly, you are also the one that thinks it's okay to give crazies like Kendull babies (via adoption), cause hey, it could be worse. :roll:

I wonder, if a husband slaps his wife in the face (just once!) is it okay to call that abuse, or should I reserve that term for women who really have the shit beat out of them?

No one is saying that there aren't different levels of abuse, but hitting is violent, and as far as I'm concerned, and adult hitting a child is abuse.

Oh, and ps. being "overwhelmed" doesn't give an adult the right to hit their child.

[Minerva]

My parents whacked me on the butt occasionally when I was small. It caused me pain and was therefore abuse as far as I'm concerned. I don't think calling it that minimizes more severe abuse. At least not as long as we realize that physical abuse, like most things in life, exists on a spectrum of severity.

[Witsec7]

Really? So a parent who whacks a two-year old on the butt--one time--has committed child abuse? Even if the parent hasn't done it before or since?

Abuse is far more than a whack on a 2-year olds' butt. When you use the term "abuse" to apply to situations like that, you are trivializing real abuse. When an overwhelmed parent smacks the bottom of a tantruming 5-year old , that is bad parenting. It is not abuse.

If you call all corporal punishment "abuse", then you are watering down that term, and that causes people to take real abuse far less seriously.

Corporal punishment is a lazy persons way of parenting. There is no excuse for hitting. There is no excuse for an adult to hit a child or another adult. Self defense is the obvious exception I make. There are dozens of threads on FJ about spanking. Rather than repeating myself !!!eleventy!!! times do some searching and read up on what's previously been said on the subject.

[Deleted04]

I was gonna comment but i feel a war coming on...so I'd better back out peacefully :?

[kb2]

I didn't think that I was abused when my parents spanked me, so I figured it wasn't always abuse. I understand that other people feel differently about their childhoods, but I just don't feel that what my parents did was the same as hitting, and that it was so far in the light spectrum that it just didn't quite cross the line to abuse. (For one thing, spankings didn't hurt.) I appreciate spanking discussions on FJ because it has pointed out to me that just because my childhood worked out OK doesn't mean I have to repeat everything my parents did because my hypothetical offspring might have a different experience with it, but I'm kind of offended that I'm not allowed to interpret my own experiences. I'll agree that spanking isn't worth it, but I won't agree that it's always abuse.

[Koala]

I just don't feel that what my parents did was the same as hitting

How did you parents "spank" that it wasn't the same as hitting. I've never known it to work any other way than an adult hitting a child.

I'm not allowed to interpret my own experiences.

Do tell how you've been prevented from interpreting your own experiences. It seems that's exactly what you've done in this post.

I'll agree that spanking isn't worth it, but I won't agree that it's always abuse.

Hitting is always abuse. Especially if you're an adult hitting a child. Spread the word.

[Boogalou]

Anyone else think she is just setting him up so that she has a reason to swat him? This is like the whole blanket training thing, create circumstances you know will lead your child to fail the test. Then you can punish them for disobedience. Common sense would say move the candy after the first or second time.

Maybe this is a bit dramatic but it sounds so much like Eden. God puts a tree right in the middle of the garden and tells the humans (who cannot differentiate between right and wrong) not to touch it. They do and he kicks them out.

Mom puts candy right out in plain view and tells the kids (who is not really old enough to understand) not to eat it. He does and she hits him.

Just an interesting parallel. Steve Maxwell might say it's something to think about...

[Levon]

Really? So a parent who whacks a two-year old on the butt--one time--has committed child abuse? Even if the parent hasn't done it before or since?

Abuse is far more than a whack on a 2-year olds' butt. When you use the term "abuse" to apply to situations like that, you are trivializing real abuse. When an overwhelmed parent smacks the bottom of a tantruming 5-year old , that is bad parenting. It is not abuse.

If you call all corporal punishment "abuse", then you are watering down that term, and that causes people to take real abuse far less seriously.

If you "whack" your spouse, even just once, it's called assault. That's not trivializing more severe spousal abuse, it's an effort to prevent it.

[Hisey]

Oh, and ps. being "overwhelmed" doesn't give an adult the right to hit their child.

Please. I experienced abuse as a child. I watched my siblings and my mother being abused. I have worked with abused children. You don't need to tell me about abuse.

In fact, I know enough about abuse--I've seen enough abused kids--so that I know when I *don't* see it.

How we define abuse is less important that this question--what are *you* doing to help abused kids? Just arguing with bloggers, or doing something real about it? I devoted my career to it.

[Kaylee]

Abuse is far more than a whack on a 2-year olds' butt. When you use the term "abuse" to apply to situations like that, you are trivializing real abuse. When an overwhelmed parent smacks the bottom of a tantruming 5-year old , that is bad parenting. It is not abuse.

If you call all corporal punishment "abuse", then you are watering down that term, and that causes people to take real abuse far less seriously.

Sorry, this is such a bullshit excuse. It might not be as severe, but it is abusive and saying that abuse has to reach a certain level to qualify as "real abuse" trivilializes a hell of a lot worse than calling all abuse abuse.

I was in 2 homes as a child that were abusive, to the point that I still have literal physical scars from some of the beatings. My parents are not evil and probably wouldn't have sent me there is they knew what was happening but they did, because they were told that is was just spanking and that spanking is not abusive. The Pearl's supporters pull out this same crap too - "oh, we just spank, they do it too hard/much".

But the whole point is that what allows much child abuse to fly under the radar and allows parents to justify their abuse is this idea that spanking is OK or not abusive as long as it doesn't cross some imaginary, totally subjective, line. Instead of worrying over where the fucking line is, why not just say that hitting your kid is abusive, no matter how hard, how many times, or how "provoked" you may be, and remove that justification?

Since you seem to believe that the same behavior can be abusive in one situation but not in others, I'd love to see how your views on spanking compare with your views on domestic violence or on sexual assault.

[Guest Anonymous]

So you're the arbiter of what is and isn't abuse, Hisey? Because nobody else has ever experienced abuse?

I was removed from my parents because of abuse, let's play the speshulest snowflake game!

[Koala]

Please. I experienced abuse as a child. I watched my siblings and my mother being abused. I have worked with abused children. You don't need to tell me about abuse.

In fact, I know enough about abuse--I've seen enough abused kids--so that I know when I *don't* see it.

How we define abuse is less important that this question--what are *you* doing to help abused kids? Just arguing with bloggers, or doing something real about it? I devoted my career to it.

Oh, I am so sorry! I had no idea you worked with abused kids. You're totally right. Hitting your kids isn't abuse. I guess I should probably do something "real" about it. Maybe I'll start with encouraging abusive fundies to adopt kids so they'll be better off. Is that a good start or do you have some other recommendation?

On a serious note you really don't know a damned thing about what I do or don't do to prevent child abuse, so feel free to hop down off that high horse anytime now.

Back to my question (which you totally ignored):

I wonder, if a husband slaps his wife in the face (just once!) is it okay to call that abuse, or should I reserve that term for women who really have the shit beat out of them?

If you could answer that I'd really appreciate it.

[Hisey]

Oh, and ps. being "overwhelmed" doesn't give an adult the right to hit their child.

Sounds like disagreement is upsetting to you, Koala. Why not take a break?

Actually, I do think there is something worse than growing up fundie. Death. Why not ask some of the former fundies on this board if they would rather have died in a third world orphanage or be alive today.]? See what they say.

Visit a third world orphanage one day (they are always desperate for volunteers). Tell those babies its better for them to die of malnutrition than to go live with a fundie family. Very arrogant of you, but go ahead.

I think you need to see the world a bit. I'd love it if all children went to two-parent homes with a picket fence, but they just don't exist. I mean, are you adopting troubled five-year olds from Ethiopia? I didn't think so.

[kb2]

How did you parents "spank" that it wasn't the same as hitting. I've never known it to work any other way than an adult hitting a child.

Fine, they hit me but I wasn't scared and it didn't hurt.

Do tell how you've been prevented from interpreting your own experiences. It seems that's exactly what you've done in this post.

Hitting is always abuse. Especially if you're an adult hitting a child. Spread the word.

OK, fine. I will tell everyone that my parents abused me when they spanked me, and it will totally be how I feel about the situation and not what you're saying happened during my childhood.

[Guest Anonymous]

Fine, they hit me but I wasn't scared and it didn't hurt.

OK, fine. I will tell everyone that my parents abused me when they spanked me, and it will totally be how I feel about the situation and not what you're saying happened during my childhood.

I'm interested in this. How did it not hurt? Are you saying it didn't hurt at all or it didn't hurt much?

[Minerva]

Sounds like disagreement is upsetting to you, Koala. Why not take a break?

Actually, I do think there is something worse than growing up fundie. Death. Why not ask some of the former fundies on this board if they would rather have died in a third world orphanage or be alive today.]? See what they say.

Visit a third world orphanage one day (they are always desperate for volunteers). Tell those babies its better for them to die of malnutrition than to go live with a fundie family. Very arrogant of you, but go ahead.

I think you need to see the world a bit. I'd love it if all children went to two-parent homes with a picket fence, but they just don't exist. I mean, are you adopting troubled five-year olds from Ethiopia? I didn't think so.

Am I the only one who has no idea what any of this means? I feel like I'm reading Cleverbot talking to itself.

[Guest Anonymous]

Am I the only one who has no idea what any of this means? I feel like I'm reading Cleverbot talking to itself.

You can either be raised by fundy, or you can be dead, those are the two options.

[Funky Chicken]

Don't forget, if he cries or feels sad after she takes away the candy or spanks him, it's a sin!

inashoe.com/2012/09/4-moms-qa-5/

*Edited to fix formatting.

Slight derailment here but to that second bolded bit: how can they say that about self-control and then say it's a woman's fault for "tempting" a man to "stumble"...??? Wake up and smell the cognitive dissonance, fundies!

[Koala]

Sounds like disagreement is upsetting to you, Koala. Why not take a break?

Yeah, that would be a no.

Actually, I do think there is something worse than growing up fundie. Death. Why not ask some of the former fundies on this board if they would rather have died in a third world orphanage or be alive today.]? See what they say.

Oh, I totally forgot that starvation and being beaten by a fundie were the only 2 options. Too bad there aren't any non-abusive families looking to adopt. :roll:

Visit a third world orphanage one day (they are always desperate for volunteers). Tell those babies its better for them to die of malnutrition than to go live with a fundie family. Very arrogant of you, but go ahead.

Again, fundie families are the only option for these children?