homeschoolers allowed to join public h.s sports team...

[fakepigtails73]

26 states have so-called "Tebow bills" on their books.

These law permits homeschoolers to join their local public high-school sports team (or debate team, math team, orchestra...). Christian groups lobbied a long time for these, but many parents and students of public schools are pissed.

What is your opinion on this? I'm kinds torn on this: on one hand parents of homeschoolers they pay school taxes (but then so do childless people like me, so can I join the cheerleading squad too ?), homeschoolers get to meet other kids so their lives are not too sheltered.

BUT...A part of me disagree with these laws because: most families that choose to homeschool do so because they don't trust their kids to be safe at their public schools, they dislike it because religion isn't part of school life (at least that's what religious homeschooling families think), they don't like the general academics and overall culture of their public high-schools. So then why should they be allowed to be part of said schools' extracurricular activities? They don't have pride and sense of belonging like the regular students do...

Here's an article:

http://parentables.howstuffworks.com/fa ... pgn=fbtlc1

[Conuly]

I think it's perfectly reasonable, so long as homeschoolers are kept to comparable academic standards as their peers, even if it makes some homeschoolers into hypocrites.

[charizbarb]

I think it's fine. I also think it's good for homeschooled kids to have responsible adults to talk to outside of their family, which could take the form of a sports coach, music teacher etc, especially one in a school environment who will have been subject to criminal record checks etc. Could be a good way for child protection to make sure kids aren't in danger from being isolated.

[Witsec7]

Locally we have had secular home schoolers participating in extracurricular activities for many years. Our local district ensures that the students are tested to meet grade level standards and for sports they have to pee test. Not that many folks actually use the sports aspects, many participate in the robotics teams, band, chorus, logging teams and the entrepreneurial club.

[JesusFightClub]

I'm a bit torn as well, fakepigtails.

On one hand, as you say, socialisation will be good for these kids. They will get to meet new people and work in a team. Make new friends and see people outside their family, for the kids who aren't homeschooled in a cool way like clibbyjo does it.

However, for religious homeschoolers I am far more concerned. A few things. If they are homeschooling because they think the public schools are not Christian or are even in some way wicked, do they have any business taking advantage of those schools' facilities (maybe to get their kid "noticed" by a coach or a team if they are talented)?

And also, there are two sides to the child mixing with new friends at public school (feels weird typing that! we say state school). What happens when little Suzy comes home and says "Can I stay over at Jenna's house tomorrow after practice, Mum? We're going to have a sleepover, all the girls are going." That's Jenna with the...reputation, shall we say (for a fundie, maybe she wears trousers.) THE WORLD IS CREEPING IN! Or maybe little Suzy doesn't want to be little Suzy any more. She wants to go to the public school, with all her new mates, and not have a life of dodgy Christian DVDs "proving" evolution never happened playing in the background as she changes the latest addition's nappy. What if her parents panic and pull her from the squad/team/orchestra etc? What a disruption, and how sad.

[Georgiana]

I think it's perfectly fine. Technically, these families do pay the taxes that fund these teams, and while they choose not to participate in the academic aspect, why shouldn't they be allowed to participate in the athletic aspect? Like I said, they paid for it just as much as the other children who actually attend the school.

I think it's important that ALL children be allowed to take advantage of resources that are PUBLIC, regardless of where or how their parents choose to educate them. I went to a small private school that couldn't fund sports teams, so I played on the local public school team. Just because my parents believed in Catholic education shouldn't mean that I should be denied the opportunity to play sports. And that's what it comes down to here: public resources, kids, and opportunity.

In case you didn't catch my point: IT'S A PUBLIC RESOURCE paid for by the tax dollars of these families.

[Arete]

I agree. Also, the fundies who will take advantage of this are still fundie lites, even if they homeschool. No Maxwell, Duggar, Bates or people like them are going to allow the possibility of their snowflakes being contaminated.

There is much more to be gained from allowing these homeschooled kids to have access to their peers.

[linnea27]

I think it's fine. Where I live, anyway, families are allowed to access whatever services their public schools offer- obviously most families choose to send their kids to public school full-time, but sometimes people will choose to homeschool all but one or two classes (say, if Bobby shows an aptitude for chemistry but you just can't get a full chem lab in your home, or you just plain suck at math and want your kid to learn from someone more capable, or your kid wants to learn German but you don't speak a word of it). Knowing that, allowing these kids to join extra-curriculars doesn't seem like a stretch.

[charizbarb]

I also don't think homeschooled kids should have to be tested to ensure they're at the same level academically as the public-schooled kids on the team because a) I don't see what one has to do with the other and b) the poorly-performing students at the public school are still presumably able to participate in school sports. Homeschooled or even unschooled kids aren't going to give the public school kids Stupid Cooties.

[emmiedahl]

In my state, homeschooled students have to be tested but this is a separate matter from their participation in school activities.

I think it is great for the community to keep young students involved in the type of group activities that only a public school can offer. I had a friend who had a daughter who was a talented artist. She ended up going part time to the local high school for art classes. It was a good mix for her. We fund public schools because they build educated and well-rounded communities. Offering education and extracurricular activities to homeschoolers fulfils this purpose.

[Maggie Mae]

I think there are a couple of different issues here. Where I grew up (Not where I am living now) we had rules in regards to who could play on which team and how long you had to sit out if your family moved across town to a different school. This was to prevent the wealthier districts from coercing families to move or moving families across town so their teams would have better records. Generally speaking, when I transferred from one school to another my senior year, I was prevented from all sports for one semester. But the sports didn't line up neatly with semester break, so I was banned from all sports except spring (which I never participated in) my senior year. It was unfair, but I understand the purpose of the rule. It's sad that some people take high school sports so seriously that a rule like that has to exist.

Another thing is that in order to participate in sports, the student athletes have to abide by a "code." It varies by state, but my high school enforced it strictly. It included zero unexcused absences, maintain a GPA of 2.9, and pass a drug test. Homeschool kids won't have the same requirements, and can focus more of their time on athletics. Which is good for the school and bad for the student.

An Alaska specific (as far as I know) problem is that anyone who is part of the Alaska homeschool program (IDEA i think) is, on paper, a part of the Galena school district. You could live anywhere in Alaska. This article explains this better than I can: http://www.adn.com/2011/09/22/2083021/c ... tball.html

My personal opinion is that having your homeschool kids on a public school team isn't very good for the team. Being on a high school sports team is so much more than practice and competition. Students wear their uniform to school on game/match/meet days, they get to do team building things during school hours, you spend so much time together that it really helps team unity. For the kids who just show up at practice, don't have the same projects and classes and teachers and friends, it just doesn't seem "right" to me.

I think that if a student wants to be a student athlete, they should be part of the team and the school. Schools are communities and you can't just participate in the things you like. Being a student athlete is a privilege not a right.

[emmiedahl]

At our high school, you can join the varsity football team the first day you attend if you are good enough, and the only requirement is that you have a 2.0 GPA.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think its a good idea to have homeschooled kids taking part in school clubs like sport teams, as they are not getting as much socialisation as other kids who go to school are, and it will be good for them to be learning and interacting with people who are not family.

I think to successfully homeschool a child, you must give them opportunities do socialise with people who are not family, especially other kids their age.

[JesusFightClub]

The public resource paid for by your tax dollars argument, I think, doesn't quite stand - after all, I pay for the military with my taxes, but I can't nip along to Faslane and ask to borrow a nuclear submarine ;)

Wouldn't even fundie-lites worry about contamination from public school kids though? Or presumably they would have sent them to public school (Private school is a bit different methinks). It must create a bit of cognitive dissonance, no?

[Witsec7]

At our high school, you can join the varsity football team the first day you attend if you are good enough, and the only requirement is that you have a 2.0 GPA.

I wonder how many home schoolers actual try out for varsity sports and make the cut? The numbers have to be exceptionally low. Unless they are just bench warmers, regardless of the sport.

[emmiedahl]

I wonder how many home schoolers actual try out for varsity sports and make the cut? The numbers have to be exceptionally low. Unless they are just bench warmers, regardless of the sport.

I don't know of any on the varsity football, but there are a few on varsity swimming and soccer at the local high school. One of the swimmers was ranked #1 in the state in her event. They seem to have school spirit; that is not really school-related so much as normal team behavior.

I see public schools as a resource for youth in the local community. Building well-rounded people is essential to this. Generally it is secular homeschoolers participating because the fundies don't want their preshus baybeez in the sports.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I think it's wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

[desertvixen]

I also don't think homeschooled kids should have to be tested to ensure they're at the same level academically as the public-schooled kids on the team because a) I don't see what one has to do with the other and b) the poorly-performing students at the public school are still presumably able to participate in school sports. Homeschooled or even unschooled kids aren't going to give the public school kids Stupid Cooties.

Most public schools have academic standards for the athletic teams to maintain (absurdly low, but they have them). Homeschoolers should be allowed to participate, as their parents do pay taxes, but they need to meet the same standards as the others.

[lilwriter85]

Homeschooled students here in New Mexico are also allowed to play on public high school teams. A friend of mine who is a high school teacher also coaches volleyball and softball. She had two homeschooled sisters on her teams, a couple of years back. She said that during the sisters also played in a club volleyball league during the off season. There was one secular homeschooling family that I knew years ago and their kids used to play sports in rec leagues during their teen years.

[emmiedahl]

I think it's wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

I see it more as: I am paying for this cake but I only want a slice.

If it were bad for children, I would be against it. But it is overwhelmingly good for them. I do see the irony that someone who does not deem the school fit to teach English sees it as the perfect place to learn soccer.

I do think they should have to maintain certain academic standards. However, the homeschoolers who partake of school sports in my experience are the ones homeschooling for academic reasons and not religious ones. So the children are held to a pretty high bar.

I have a friend who homeschools whose child has an IEP with her local school district and plans her curriculum for the child in question based on this. He receives speech therapy from the school. There is a high level of accountability in going this route; her son is evaluated for progress the same way a public schooler would be. I think it is such a win-win for everyone involved. When she needed help she could not provide, she turned to the school and they helped her work out a plan for giving her son the best education possible.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I see it more as: I am paying for this cake but I only want a slice.

If it were bad for children, I would be against it. But it is overwhelmingly good for them. I do see the irony that someone who does not deem the school fit to teach English sees it as the perfect place to learn soccer.

I do think they should have to maintain certain academic standards. However, the homeschoolers who partake of school sports in my experience are the ones homeschooling for academic reasons and not religious ones. So the children are held to a pretty high bar.

I have a friend who homeschools whose child has an IEP with her local school district and plans her curriculum for the child in question based on this. He receives speech therapy from the school. There is a high level of accountability in going this route; her son is evaluated for progress the same way a public schooler would be. I think it is such a win-win for everyone involved. When she needed help she could not provide, she turned to the school and they helped her work out a plan for giving her son the best education possible.

The idea for some reason just gives me the heebie jeebies. I just think it's a way the home school lobby could wedge their own agenda into the public school system.

[fakepigtails73]

interesting answers!

I really don't know what the law is here; homeschooling is not as popular as in the US or western Canada...

[emmiedahl]

The idea for some reason just gives me the heebie jeebies. I just think it's a way the home school lobby could wedge their own agenda into the public school system.

And I totally understand this. With the current rightward push, it is completely rational to view any changes as a potential step forward for religious agendas.

My perspective is that of a former homeschooling mom who would still be homeschooling the younger ones if I had the time. I gave my kids a great education and paid taxes and see no reason why they could not be in some school activities. I would not homeschool older children because I cannot meet their needs (needs being: AP classes and also the older ones are incredibly social and benefit immensely from school dances, constant socializing, etc).

I guess I see refusing children in a school district access to certain benefits because their ass is not in the right seat all day long as silly and needlessly punitive. But I understand the other side.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

And I totally understand this. With the current rightward push, it is completely rational to view any changes as a potential step forward for religious agendas.

My perspective is that of a former homeschooling mom who would still be homeschooling the younger ones if I had the time. I gave my kids a great education and paid taxes and see no reason why they could not be in some school activities. I would not homeschool older children because I cannot meet their needs (needs being: AP classes and also the older ones are incredibly social and benefit immensely from school dances, constant socializing, etc).

I guess I see refusing children in a school district access to certain benefits because their ass is not in the right seat all day long as silly and needlessly punitive. But I understand the other side.

My opinion of homeschooling is overwhelmingly negative, because that is the experience I have had with it.

I just feel that it's hypocritical to take kids out of school, especially because the parents have religious objections, then expect to have the school services that they do find convenient at their disposal.

I'm trying to find a good analogy. I guess it would be kind of like if I was asked by a recruiter to join the Army and I refused, but then wanted to access VA benefits and the GI bill, because I pay a portion of my taxes for those things, too.

[Arete]

While I understand the analogy, I think for me it boils down to the fact it is overwhelmingly positive for the children. The children who didn't get to decide which family was going to be allotted them. Access to their peers can only help them better integrate if they decide to follow a different path.