Any unemployed fundies?

[YPestis]

Has any of the fundie families we know experienced unemployment? How did they handle it? I'm kind of curious if they took food stamps or medicaid during that time? If the wife is popping out babies, even fundies must feel it safer to have some health insurance for prenatals and their other children.

I have yet to find any fundie families who admit to using any welfare programs but I can't believe all of them miraculously skim by with their barely educated husbands and dozen children.

I guess it's hard to know as most people would not share their financial hardships online and most certainly will not admit to benefiting from socialist programs but I am not as well read in the less fundie world as some on here. Any takers?

[charizbarb]

Brandy and Jason seem to be unemployed whether they're in a fundie phase or not. The Dixons were unemployed most of the time in Costa Rica and relied mostly on donations. There's another fundie family where the dad gave up work to study the Bible but I can't remember who.

[uber frau]

Gabe Anast (Michael Pearl's son-in-law)

For every unemployed Fundy, there have to be another dozen or more under-employed ones who could claim benefits but won't (DNA & Chris Jeub, for example).

[Sola]

There's probably a lot of the 'lower class' (as described in the fundy royalty thread) fundies who experience unemployment. Probably more than we know of, I'd like to bet that many of them wont admit to it either. To do that would be to scratch the veneer of their lifestyles and we'd get a peek underneath.

I know we often see on blogs where the husband/father is 'self employed' which often seems to be code for 'unemployed' as they aren't making any money in self employment. Then there are those bloggers who talk about how 'god' brought the husband/father home, I've seen that on a couple of blogs. As Uber Frau said, Gabe Anast is one.

I don't know about food stamps - it wouldn't surprise me if the average fundie takes it. They all seem to take the tax refunds/deductions for their ever increasing broods which to me is the same damn thing.

[Palimpsest]

Gabe Anast (Michael Pearl's son-in-law)

For every unemployed Fundy, there have to be another dozen or more under-employed ones who could claim benefits but won't (DNA & Chris Jeub, for example).

IIRC, Gabe Anast deliberately chose not to work -- because it would interfere with his relationship with the Lord or something.

Does anyone know what the Anasts are doing these days? They disappeared after closing 7X Sunday

[meda]

Connie from Smockityfrocks wrote long whiny posts about her godly husband's season of unemployment.

[charizbarb]

I think the Messianic Mennonite lady's husband doesn't work either? Might be disability though. But I would imagine many poorer fundies experience unemployment just like a lot of non-fundie people do, especially if they were raised fundie and don't have much of an education.

[lilwriter85]

I recall hearing or reading something Kelly Crawford was on government assistance when she had her first child.

[pixydust]

I think the Messianic Mennonite lady's husband doesn't work either? Might be disability though. But I would imagine many poorer fundies experience unemployment just like a lot of non-fundie people do, especially if they were raised fundie and don't have much of an education.

IIRC Tabby's husband has a bunch of serious medical issues and is on disability.

I bet that quite a few fundies take some form of assistance, but they will never admit it, even to each other. It would look like they aren't trusting in God for their needs.

[chaotic life]

Coming as someone who was into QF and got away, I would say the majoirty of Fundies are actually poor, lower class and frequently unemployed. The midde and upper class fundies and the royalty who PROFIT off the poor have a strong and pretty internet precense, but in the trenches, most are barely scraping by, if at all. They also usually have inconsistent internet and don't blog, or the few I've known who did blog weren't honest about what life was *really* like in their blogging.

Whether they take government assistance or not varies. I've known families who can never get OFF assistance. The majority are on WIC and don't see it as government assitance per se. Many, MANY that I have known take EBT and medicaid. I would say about 1/3 of the truly impoverished fundies I have known refused government assistance outright.

Education is not encouraged in the Fundie world. Rather, they espouse character training and apprenticeships. They are tradesmen, farm hands, factory workers but they are rarely successful businessmen situations. They would say that they put the father's precense in the home and availiabiity to his family as a higher priority. Most employers would say they are inconsistent and have a poor work ethic. So yes, they end up frequently un and under employed for this.

I've actually seen more threads when I was at M-O-M-Y-S than I could count on how God provided in tight situations than I could handle emotionally. That's the thing, fundies see those struggles as refinement, not as an indication that they should get more education or stop having children. They are being TESTED and it is their duty to remain faithful through the trials and tribulations.

The Fundie paradigm basically shuts down logical repsonses to severe poverty. Instead of seeing they need to make wiser choices, they just explain their struggles that they got Satan's attention for doing something *right* and God will be faithful if they continue on the path they are walking. It's really, really hard to get someone to see beyond the insanity of it all.

[Sweetpea1]

Doesn't Smugger count as unemployed (or at the very least very underemployed)?

[emmiedahl]

Coming as someone who was into QF and got away, I would say the majoirty of Fundies are actually poor, lower class and frequently unemployed. The midde and upper class fundies and the royalty who PROFIT off the poor have a strong and pretty internet precense, but in the trenches, most are barely scraping by, if at all. They also usually have inconsistent internet and don't blog, or the few I've known who did blog weren't honest about what life was *really* like in their blogging.

Whether they take government assistance or not varies. I've known families who can never get OFF assistance. The majority are on WIC and don't see it as government assitance per se. Many, MANY that I have known take EBT and medicaid. I would say about 1/3 of the truly impoverished fundies I have known refused government assistance outright.

Education is not encouraged in the Fundie world. Rather, they espouse character training and apprenticeships. They are tradesmen, farm hands, factory workers but they are rarely successful businessmen situations. They would say that they put the father's precense in the home and availiabiity to his family as a higher priority. Most employers would say they are inconsistent and have a poor work ethic. So yes, they end up frequently un and under employed for this.

I've actually seen more threads when I was at MOMYS than I could count on how God provided in tight situations than I could handle emotionally. That's the thing, fundies see those struggles as refinement, not as an indication that they should get more education or stop having children. They are being TESTED and it is their duty to remain faithful through the trials and tribulations.

The Fundie paradigm basically shuts down logical repsonses to severe poverty. Instead of seeing they need to make wiser choices, they just explain their struggles that they got Satan's attention for doing something *right* and God will be faithful if they continue on the path they are walking. It's really, really hard to get someone to see beyond the insanity of it all.

Hey, another MOMYS person!

MOMYS is a chat board for large families. Most of them were on WIC. Some were on food stamps, although there was huge honor afforded to women who made ramen and donated rotten fruit work rather than getting on programs.

[chaotic life]

Yes, M-O-M-Y-S was when I jumped the shark from just being a Christian who loved children and wanted a large family to when I entered QF. I went seeking information on how to approach the fundamental logistics of large family life and got sucked in for awhile.

I also got banned from there. Can't really tell you why because my banning violated their own supposed procedures. I can tell you they never, ever liked that I never displayed a reverence for my spouse. I was very quick and very vocal to espouse birth control and mercy for situations where you should NOT be bringing more children into the word. I also flat-out refused to agree with the growing SAHD movement. In fact, I was HORRIFIED by the concept and disgusted that it was growing and being promoted so strongly.

Ultimately, I notified the admins that another member of the board, whom I knew IRL was lying through her TEETH on the board (among other things she wasn't even a Christian though she talked a good talk on the boards). I was banned and she was praised. I suppose they would argue I was gossiping. Except, I knew what I said was factual because I knew her and had spent time with her family.

At the time, the board was still owned by the Orthodox couple who got divorced. My DH encouraged me to speak to the husband/board owner regarding the fact that his administrators absolutely violated their own written policies. However, I was already shedding the koolaid and felt it was actually good for me to get away from that insanity.

I always meant to have a large family via birth and adoption, to have my children in my 20s and buid my career in my 30s. I never, ever meant to go there, but the legalism and insanity creeps into your thinking the more you hang around it, even when you don't intend for it to happen.

That was where I developed my fear of public schools and the state, abandoned my goals of a career, and started thinking there was something wrong with *me* because I was such a lousy submissive wife. After getting banned, life has been MUCH better.

It's funny. Money is tight for my family at this moment and if I were still in that world, the solution would be to show honor to God through the trials and tribulations. Poverty is considered a VIRTUE in that world. I'm not there anymore and my immediate, logical solution is to start calling the Board of Nursing repeatedly to find out where the devil my licensure has been held up so I can get a night-shift job to help supplement our income for now (and focus back on rebuilding my career again).

In the Fundia world, the option of my working, even though I will be working nightshifts, part-time and I am now only homeschooling one child, would be sacrilege.

Anyway, my point is that LOTS of Fundie are unemployed and poor. They just either aren't seen as much online, or they flat-out LIE when they are online. No one wants to be treated like Emily was, afterall. So, it wouldn't do to be honest about that poverty.

Honestly, I started backing off of my closest friendship from another QF mom because of the poverty issue. The year she was pregnant and confided to me that she hadn't take the kids out in public since August because it was Jan in a very harsh winter and half the kids had NO shoes and the other half only had sandals, I asked her where were the toddler girl clothes I had SENT her, since her toddler girl was being wrapped in a blanket to stay warm because she had no warm clothes. She sold the stuff for other needs. Being friends with her was not only a never-ending pit of need, but it was giving me anxiety and stress issues from the level of poverty those chlidren were in that I couldn't handle anymore.

She was VERY typical for that world. Serena Campbell is typical of that world. These people isolate SO much that you really don't grasp how common the poverty and lack of meeting needs is if you've never been part of that world.

[Aeryn406]

I never saw how poverty is a virtue and I think is a crime to advertise it as such. It's a PITA at best and downright dangerous & life-threatening at worst! There is something to be said for grace under pressure, but you don't just sit there and stay in misery - you figure out what the heck you need to do to fix the situation! (IE: Mom might need a job til the family books get back in the black! *gasp - faint*)

And stop yelling *m-o-m-y-s*! They're gonna find us and the "forum daddy" is going to come in here again & spank us! I'm on there too and probably should drop in again soon. A few months ago, the main mod was having fits about all the lurker accounts & was going to cancel users that hadn't "actively posted" within a certain time period. They're really paranoid about lurkers over there!

ETA: riffle

[TMS]

Are there any public QF boards that I could lurk on without becoming a member? Or do they all tend to be "private"?

[nokidsmom]

I never saw how poverty is a virtue and I think is a crime to advertise it as such. It's a PITA at best and downright dangerous & life-threatening at worst! There is something to be said for grace under pressure, but you don't just sit there and stay in misery - you figure out what the heck you need to do to fix the situation! (IE: Mom might need a job til the family books get back in the black! *gasp - faint*)

Poverty is often guaranteed due to fundie beliefs that rule out any real solutions. Wives must stay at home so going to work is out. Education is evil so going back to school is out. Families must be large so practicing birth control is out. And on it goes.

[emmiedahl]

I was also kicked off the site that shall not be named per Aeryn406. I will not say why but only that child abuse should always be reported, even if it gets you kicked off a website.

[Minerva]

There's probably a lot of the 'lower class' (as described in the fundy royalty thread) fundies who experience unemployment. Probably more than we know of, I'd like to bet that many of them wont admit to it either. To do that would be to scratch the veneer of their lifestyles and we'd get a peek underneath.

I know we often see on blogs where the husband/father is 'self employed' which often seems to be code for 'unemployed' as they aren't making any money in self employment. Then there are those bloggers who talk about how 'god' brought the husband/father home, I've seen that on a couple of blogs. As Uber Frau said, Gabe Anast is one.

I don't know about food stamps - it wouldn't surprise me if the average fundie takes it. They all seem to take the tax refunds/deductions for their ever increasing broods which to me is the same damn thing.

I'm sure tons of them quietly use food stamps and welfare (and good for them, those exist for a reason), but I think fundies see a major difference between food stamps and tax refunds/deductions. They'd see using food stamps as "using other taxpayers' money", whereas they'd see their tax deductions/rebates as "getting OUR money back (which we probably shouldn't have had to pay so much of in the first place)". In practice it's the same thing, but given the dialogue surrounding both, it's easy to see why they'd think of one as something they're not entitled to and the other as something they are entitled to.

[chaotic life]

I realize all caps is yelling online, but anacronyms are always in all caps, long before the existence of the internet, and technically not yelling.

However, I do see the point in not putting the anacronym exactly as it is on the board, as it will attract searches that way.

I will say leaving that board was one of the healthiest things I did for myself and my family. Took me some time to completely detox off the koolaid, but we're doing quite well these days.

I finished my Bachelor's degree and am working on advancing my education further, and slowly returning to full-time employment. I have transitioned all but one of the children into public school (yes, evil public school). And, I finally trust PEOPLE enough to try going to church again this fall which is a place I never thought I would get back to after my forray into fundieland.

It was always depressing to see the poverty that most of the QF mothers lived in and how no one thought there was a problem with it.

[pixydust]

I was also kicked off the site that shall not be named per Aeryn406. I will not say why but only that child abuse should always be reported, even if it gets you kicked off a website.

You, madam, are a goddess. :clap:

[Rosa]

We've talked about this before, but there is a refundable tax credit for children, that allows you to get back more money than you pay in if you make little and have many children. It is exactly welfare, in cash-payment form. There are also child tax deductions that just lower your tax bill.

[YPestis]

I created this thread after reading a (mainstream) news article (maybe Washington Post?) about the Samaritan scam. They interviewed all these fundie families who were on it and how they saved so much money and how they managed to get all their medical bills paid for through this insurance. It made me wonder how most fundie families truly fare with their large families, underemployed/undereducated husbands and reluctance to take gov't welfare. From other posters here, it appears many do take forms of welfare even when they don't call it that (i.e refundable tax credit). I'm surprised one poster said many fundies don't see WIC as welfare?? What do they think it is otherwise? Others note that fundies who talk about husbands being "brought home" or deciding to go down the self-employed route may actually be unemployed and trying to save face. I guess I never thought of that even though this happened to a friend of mine. Does anyone think fundies decide to change after doing a stent of unemployment?

I now realize I do know one fundie that had an unemployed husband, although she's actually Jewish. Anna T's husband was unemployed for a brief time forcing her to find a part time job. I know that Anna T have hinted their financial situation is still stressful and unstable but haven't had need to find a job again. The experience hasn't lessened her harsh views on working mothers although she says she has more sympathy for those mothers that "have" to work (i.e people like her). Yet she continues to judge women that work, implying that most women she see working do so not for economic needs. I guess I kind of answered my own question here. Some fundies won't change despite taking advantage of the very system they criticize so much. I bet if the Maxwells find themselves overwhelmed with medical bills or business debt, they'd still talk the talk about the need for debt-free living and how their lifestyle is so much better for the family.

[desertvixen]

The majority are on WIC and don't see it as government assitance per se.

Does the whole "WIC isn't welfare" line of thought annoy anyone else? It's assistance from the government, albeit one that is seen as "better than welfare".

Don't get me wrong. I want people who need WIC to use it, but for people to slam welfare and take WIC just irritates me.

[pixydust]

Does the whole "WIC isn't welfare" line of thought annoy anyone else? It's assistance from the government, albeit one that is seen as "better than welfare".

Don't get me wrong. I want people who need WIC to use it, but for people to slam welfare and take WIC just irritates me.

Didn't Octomom do the same thing? She was on WIC and a couple of her kids were on disability and she claimed that she never took welfare.

I'm a huge supporter of social programs (welfare, medicaid and medicare, social security, whatever else there could be), but if you take some, don't bash the entire program!

[Arete]

I'm raising my hand here to ask a question. What are the mental gymnastics that fundies go through to come the the conclusion that WIC is not welfare? I didn't realize this was a tenet.

I remember years ago I was lurking on the Maxwell's recipe board. There was a woman with several children who was pregnant and asking how she could stretch the groceries for a month on 25 Dollars. :shock: People were giving these crazy answers like potato and water soup (I kid you not), and not a single person even hinted at WIC. I have never been back on the recipe board, it was just so upsetting that no one was telling her to get HELP.