Doug Phillips is (wait for it)...............

[twin2]

A TOOL!!!

From the VF facebook page:

"Until the Church stops aborting our own children through contraceptive techniques with abortifacient potentiality, we can have no meaningful witness against Planned Parenthood and the minions of baby killers who have bloodied our land." Doug Phillips, President, Vision Forum

Sadly 241 people liked this. Some of the lowlights from the comments:

I am not without guilt, and I agree wholeheartedly! RESEARCH is a MUST!!!!!

I think the biggest issue is encouraging the families in the church to trust God in this issue. As long as the secular attitude of children as burdens to be managed persists in the church, the truth that fertility is a blessing in a family won't be heard. Fear is a major obstacle. Faith is the answer.

Absolute truth! Amen. One of the saddest things I have noticed in our home educating community, is seeing so many of "our" children, many from large families, many with a Biblical understanding of children, get married and they seem to have no problem buying into the idea to "wait" to have children, or use contraceptives. Such a heart break. So sad we have failed to educate them that many of the methods they choose to use are abortifacients....sadder still is that we have apparently failed to give them the vision of chilfren as a blessing from God. Either He is in control of ALL your life, or not at all.

The same application could be made to the sodomite counter culture that seeks to destroy all thing ordained by the sovereign God.

Sharon, I did a lot of research on birth control. It works three ways. 1st it is to stop you from ovulating. If that fails, then 2nd it stops the fertilized egg from being implanted. If that fails, then usually the hormones will terminate the pregnancy even before you know that you was even pregnant. If you are blessed your baby will make it and you will have a child.

Randy Alcorn's book as mentioned in a comment above is an excellent resource on how birth control works....after the Bible which continously stresses children as a blessing from God. My question is, why would we want to prevent his blessing? Would we ever think of doing such a thing with his financial blessing, relational blesssing?

[mirele]

A TOOL!!!

From the VF facebook page:

Sadly 241 people liked this. Some of the lowlights from the comments:

No, honey, those kids saw what life was like when their parents couldn't give them any time or attention because the parents were too busy trying to stuff more arrows than is needful or wise in the quiver.

I guess the kids are alright.

[anniebgood]

These people have never heard of condoms?

Doug Phillips is a tool.

[theologygeek]

So what the hell is that asshole going to do about it? Is he going to feed the children who go to bed hungry? Because if he is, I will collect his money myself and give it to families in need. If he isn't, then he needs to shut up.

[Witsec7]

Doug Phillips is a tool.

Until the Church stops aborting our own children through contraceptive techniques with abortifacient potentiality, we can have no meaningful witness against Planned Parenthood and the minions of baby killers who have bloodied our land." Doug Phillips, President, Vision Forum

Can someone please name one church that performs abortions? TYIA

Doug Phillips is a tool.

[Minerva]

"Until the Church stops aborting our own children through contraceptive techniques with abortifacient potentiality, we can have no meaningful witness against Planned Parenthood and the minions of baby killers who have bloodied our land." Doug Phillips, President, Vision Forum

I see Doug Phillips is as melodramatic as ever. The BABY KILLERS who have BLOODIED OUR LAND.

I am not without guilt, and I agree wholeheartedly! RESEARCH is a MUST!!!!!

*sigh* you wouldn't know research if it bit you in the butt.

I think the biggest issue is encouraging the families in the church to trust God in this issue. As long as the secular attitude of children as burdens to be managed persists in the church, the truth that fertility is a blessing in a family won't be heard. Fear is a major obstacle. Faith is the answer.

You hear that? Fertility is a blessing in a family. Translation: I might be an extremist QFer, but I still get to judge the hell out of unmarried mothers - you CAN have the best of both worlds!

Absolute truth! Amen. One of the saddest things I have noticed in our home educating community, is seeing so many of "our" children, many from large families, many with a Biblical understanding of children, get married and they seem to have no problem buying into the idea to "wait" to have children, or use contraceptives. Such a heart break. So sad we have failed to educate them that many of the methods they choose to use are abortifacients....sadder still is that we have apparently failed to give them the vision of chilfren as a blessing from God. Either He is in control of ALL your life, or not at all.

You haven't failed to "educate them", you've just failed to beat all the common sense out of them before you married them off. The only families that literally trust God with ALL of their life are famous for being charged with neglect when their kids die for lack of medical attention. Just sayin'.

The same application could be made to the sodomite counter culture that seeks to destroy all thing ordained by the sovereign God.

I guess things like spelling, grammar, and science weren't ordained by the sovereign God then, because it's homeschooling fundies who are destroying those.

Sharon, I did a lot of research on birth control. It works three ways. 1st it is to stop you from ovulating. If that fails, then 2nd it stops the fertilized egg from being implanted. If that fails, then usually the hormones will terminate the pregnancy even before you know that you was even pregnant. If you are blessed your baby will make it and you will have a child.

It's not a pregnancy until the egg implants. Terminology fail or more melodrama? Hard to tell with this crowd.

Randy Alcorn's book as mentioned in a comment above is an excellent resource on how birth control works....after the Bible which continously stresses children as a blessing from God. My question is, why would we want to prevent his blessing? Would we ever think of doing such a thing with his financial blessing, relational blesssing?

Ok, how are children a financial blessing? Short of when they earn you subsidies from the ebil socialist government, because Dougie's right-wing followers are totally not hypocritical and refuse every single one. Randy Alcorn has studied biblical studies and theology. I'd totally trust him to teach me how birth control works.

Doug Phillips is a tool.

[terranova]

No, honey, those kids saw what life was like when their parents couldn't give them any time or attention because the parents were too busy trying to stuff more arrows than is needful or wise in the quiver.

I guess the kids are alright.

I'm impressed that kids who've grown up with those values drummed into them are waiting even one cycle to have children. I hope others of their generation pay attention. Even the slightest break from the cult is applaudable in my books.

[theologygeek]

Doug Phillips is a tool.

Can someone please name one church that performs abortions? TYIA

Doug Phillips is a tool.

I think he's talking about birth control. But there aren't many churches that openly support it. At first I thought he was talking about Natural Family Planning and the Catholic church, but that doesn't go with the PP part of his sentence. I imagine he's talking about churches supporting the pill.

[patsymae]

"As long as the secular attitude of children as burdens to be managed..."

Yet aren't all their child-reading "tips" about beating inherently willful and evil children into docile robots that can be managed?

Never mind. I will never get these people.

[notsocommon]

Randy Alcorn's book as mentioned in a comment above is an excellent resource on how birth control works....after the Bible which continously stresses children as a blessing from God. My question is, why would we want to prevent his blessing? Would we ever think of doing such a thing with his financial blessing, relational blesssing?

[thoughtful]

I see Doug Phillips is as melodramatic as ever. The BABY KILLERS who have BLOODIED OUR LAND.

Baby killers? Like this?

Samaria shall become desolate because she has rebelled against her God; her babes will fall by the sword and be dashed to the ground, and pregnant women will be ripped up.

— Hosea 13:16

[Burris]

These people have never heard of condoms?.

Indeed. There is no reasonable way condoms and spermicide could be considered abortifacients.

People like Doug Phillips are not really interested in stopping abortion, however. If they were, they'd teach at least some form of sex education, featuring male and female condoms as well as spermicide as different means of family planning. They could still teach that sex within marriage is the only "correct" form of it without sacrificing information about how to limit family size.

It should go without saying that a person cannot obtain an abortion who is not actually pregnant.

The focus on pregnancy prevention for those who wish to plan their families, then, would be a means of having people voluntarily forgo abortion without legally infringing on the right to privacy.

Women who oppose abortion but want to plan their family size would simply see the failure of a condom – a relatively rare event if the condom is used properly – as “God's will.†That is compatible with the view that human life at any stage is sacred.

That isn't good enough for these fanatics. Their anti-birth control campaign is not about preventing abortion or preserving life, but rather it's about controlling women. Nothing less. Nothing else.

And apparently some of these growing children, with their umpteen siblings and sub-standard educations, are seeing the VF scam for the bullshit it is. They're opting out, despite having been raised in the fundie subculture, simply because some parts that subculture are so obviously stupid that even children immersed in it can see the truth.

[Lala29]

That isn't good enough for these fanatics. Their anti-birth control campaign is not about preventing abortion or preserving life, but rather it's about controllingwomen people. Nothing less. Nothing else.

And apparently some of these growing children, with their umpteen siblings and sub-standard educations, are seeing the VF scam for the bullshit it is. They're opting out, despite having been raised in the fundie subculture, simply because some parts that subculture are so obviously stupid that even children immersed in it can see the truth.

Fixed that for ya. It traps both genders. Men and women are forced to cut corners, work shitty jobs and otherwise short-change their 'blessings' because there's just so damn many, and a bit more money can mean the difference between food for all or just the 'working' members.

I've noticed that the majority of children from large households (5+ kids), that I know, tend to have small families, if not go completely child-free. I think the lack of individual attention plus the (usual) financial stress is enough to put them off.

Edited to add: You all let me down. I totally thought that the ending to that title would be "....GAY!" I was totally hoping for some breaking news of him getting caught mid-tryst. :cry:

[CanadianHippie]

I'm impressed that kids who've grown up with those values drummed into them are waiting even one cycle to have children. I hope others of their generation pay attention. Even the slightest break from the cult is applaudable in my books.

I'm sure some do, I'm also sure some don't and are having a difficult time getting pregnant and get to face accusations of hating children or not really trying from family and friends in their congregation because of it.

[Anise]

Every sperm is sacred

[TrueRebel1]

Hello? Ever heard of condoms?

Or Natural Family Planning?

Or an IUD?

These birth control methods have no "abortifacient potentiality" whatsoever!

Why must pro-lifers such as Doug Phillips harp on how contraceptive methods are "killing our babies" -- without making the distinction between methods that do possibly have an "abortifacient potentiality" and ones that absolutely do not? Of course, I'm sure that Doug would not condone ANY birth control methods, but really, a couple spacing or waiting on children using condoms is not the same as them having an abortion!!!

[Anxious Girl]

Silly mrsanniebegood; doncha know? Birth control, boners; condoms, and that cursed time of the month are natural aborters of teh babies! Oh wait; since God seems to control their bodies oh so well; why isn't He being called out for being an aborter when He gives people boners and periods? Because He's punishing them for something they and or their parents' or family members did wrong! This is fundie reasoning. Don't try to think it through, it'll make your brain hurt inside.

[JesusFightClub]

I have a comrade (who I strongly doubt reads here). The first time I met him he was shouting on a loudhailer outside a shop "THERE IS BLOOD ON THE ORANGES! THERE IS BLOOD ON THE GRAPES! THERE IS BLOOD ON THE MELONS!" He went through all the fruit there was blood on, which turned out to be a startling amount.

Dougie is like the shit version of him. Oh yeah, and a tool.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I have a comrade (who I strongly doubt reads here). The first time I met him he was shouting on a loudhailer outside a shop "THERE IS BLOOD ON THE ORANGES! THERE IS BLOOD ON THE GRAPES! THERE IS BLOOD ON THE MELONS!" He went through all the fruit there was blood on, which turned out to be a startling amount.

Dougie is like the shit version of him. Oh yeah, and a tool.

"Blood on the blood oranges..." :lol:

Minions of Babykillers needs to be an indie band, stat.

[JesusFightClub]

GC, and one other, I'm trying to reply to your PMs but every time I try FJ crashes for me!

I can remember saying to my comrade "Wow, that's a lot of blood for so few fruit?" He fixed me with a glare and said "You'd be surprised."

(Imagine that in a strong Scottish accent.) :lol:

[Glass Cowcatcher]

GC, and one other, I'm trying to reply to your PMs but every time I try FJ crashes for me!

I can remember saying to my comrade "Wow, that's a lot of blood for so few fruit?" He fixed me with a glare and said "You'd be surprised."

(Imagine that in a strong Scottish accent.) :lol:

No worries. :)

[dairyfreelife]

Sharon, I did a lot of research on birth control. It works three ways. 1st it is to stop you from ovulating. If that fails, then 2nd it stops the fertilized egg from being implanted. If that fails, then usually the hormones will terminate the pregnancy even before you know that you was even pregnant. If you are blessed your baby will make it and you will have a child.

What research was that...from an anti-birth control website? The pill stops you from ovulating and if you don't ovulate, you can't get pregnant. The standard bc pill isn't going to prevent a fertilized egg from implantation. If a women gets pregnant on the pill, it may because she messed up taking the pills or she took something like an antibiotic which lowered its effectiveness or the dosage/pill she was taking did not work with her body and did not suppress ovulation as a result. It's rare, about 1 in 100 women on the pill get pregnant every year, but since it does happen apparently many women have and none I know of have suffered as a result. In other words, they don't have a damn clue about the pill or how it works.

[m0drnmoonlight]

Why are they making it sound like an awful, horrible thing if a couple decides to wait on having children instead of jumping right in? A lot of these people marry young with like no real income. Are they encouraging people to pop out baby after baby when they have like no money to support a gigantic family? And they're condemning people who did come out of this movement with a brain for waiting for various reasons to start a family (no financial support, just don't want children right away, etc)? There is no logic with these people.

[kaetrin]

"Blood on the blood oranges..." :lol:

Minions of Babykillers needs to be an indie band, stat.

And it's not even the babykillers themselves who are bloodying the land; it's their MINIONS. They delegate the dirty work, I guess.

Maybe he meant "myriads"? Must be hard to keep all that purple-prose vocabulary straight.

[ladidah]

What research was that...from an anti-birth control website? The pill stops you from ovulating and if you don't ovulate, you can't get pregnant. The standard bc pill isn't going to prevent a fertilized egg from implantation. If a women gets pregnant on the pill, it may because she messed up taking the pills or she took something like an antibiotic which lowered its effectiveness or the dosage/pill she was taking did not work with her body and did not suppress ovulation as a result. It's rare, about 1 in 100 women on the pill get pregnant every year, but since it does happen apparently many women have and none I know of have suffered as a result. In other words, they don't have a damn clue about the pill or how it works.

This has been much hashed over in earlier FJ threads, but for a quick review, here's how the typical anti-oral-contraceptives argument works. Some Christians read information like this (here, from NIH):

Oral contraceptives (birth-control pills) are used to prevent pregnancy. Estrogen and progestin are two female sex hormones. Combinations of estrogen and progestin work by preventing ovulation (the release of eggs from the ovaries). They also change the lining of the uterus (womb) to prevent pregnancy from developing and change the mucus at the cervix (opening of the uterus) to prevent sperm (male reproductive cells) from entering.

The part in bold makes some Christians worry that, in the rare cases in which birth control pills fail to prevent ovulation, they may interfere with the implantation a fertilized egg. In other words, there is the theoretical possibility that one may be taking birth control pills, ovulate, but not get pregnant/experience implantation. Those Christians who believe that life begins at fertilization feel that this is inconsistent with their ethics.

Some people even go so far as to call oral contraceptives "abortifacient" for these reasons. The term's technically inaccurate and, of course, pretty rhetorically ineffective if it's used outside religiously conservative circles, but it has a lot of purchase for people saturated in a pro-life/anti-abortion religious culture.

Now, I have no idea whether Dougie has any idea about these arguments or whether he has some notion that all birth control methods, even barrier methods, are "abortifacient" because they're preventing the possibility of fertilization. Given his extreme positions on other QF-related issues, nothing would surprise me.

ETA: URL