Thinking About Fundie Girl Typology

[Librul]

In observing unmarried fundie womanhood, it seems as if they fall into at least three distinct family types.

There are those elite women who are trained to become a substitute mini-wife for Father. She holds the primacy of place in his hearth and heart. This girl is groomed to be a helpmeet for an alpha male, sharing in and helping to bring about his "vision" for the family. She often seems aloof and aristocratic. Physical beauty and stylish clothes/make-up are common. Daddy takes a keen interest, and even pride, in her intellectual development, lavishing as much time in mentoring, tutoring, and supporting her as he does his sons. The fathers encourage their daughter's "scholarly research", "hospitality ministry", and "generational vision". They love dressing in period costumes, playing at history and making ordinary family events and dynamics seem terribly, terribly significant. Although these families pay lip service to the importance of mother, in reality, the power dynamics are Father/daughter. There is often a squick factor to these relationships and daddy can have trouble letting her go to another man. The lovely but aging Botkin girls, Jasmine B., the Issicharian Daughter, Genevieve, Audri Vernier, et al are some of the A list members of this club.

Then there are the Mini-moms. Often minimally educated, almost always over worked, these girls do it all, from laundry to shopping to cleaning. daddy isn't much interested in their education, their vision, or their place as a helpmeet to a powerful man although their relationships with their daughters often seem cordial. They serve as surogate moms to their younger siblings and free up Mom for date nights to create more quivers. Typically, they shoulder a lion's share of work in busy households. Although some are quite stylish, they aren't the aristocrats the mini-wives seem to be. The squick factor is usually missing from their Father/Daughter relationships and the girls of this family system spend time with mom and dad equally. Although they are protected and are never alone, these girls do have some freedom--driving cars, running errands, authority in limited "jurisdictions" since their energy and work are necessary to the family. The Duggars, the Bates, the Kellers seem to fall into this group.

Finally, we have the perpetual children. Even when these women are well past the cusp of adulthood, they seem young, childlike, isolated. Peter Pan has nothing on these girls...they may never grow up. Their interests, humor, hobbies and reading material are that of much younger girls. They love their families!!! They love Mommy!! Daddy!! Their brothers and sisters are the best!! nothing is better than spending time with each other!! These families often work as a team because the family is all they can imagine. They are infantilized by dressing alike--from toddler to middle-aged mom, in matching polos, frumpers or prairie skirts. They have no jurisdictions and virtually no freedom since Mommy and Daddy make every decision. They cannot imagine life outside the nuclear family or a future that doesn't look like today. The Maxwells and the Seven sisters typify this group.

Others ?

[Minerva]

I enjoyed reading that. I like typology.

[Sister Mozz]

Great breakdown. When I was fundie I definitely fell into that middle category.

[fluttershies]

I think this is accurate and interesting. There also seems to be a VF/ATI split, and the class differences that go with that (and the perpetual daughter type being in neither group). The Coghlans would be an example of a poorer VF family who are in the middle category. Interesting how mothers seem to dominate in the middle group - possibly poorer, disenfranchised women seeking some kind of fulfilment?

[Deleted05]

Forgive me, but who is Genevieve?

[lilith]

You can also get multiple types within the same family - for example Erin Bates and Jessa Duggar are mini wives while Michaela Bates and Jill Duggar are mini mums.

[CanadianHippie]

I am also thinking a certain percentage of these women (ones who perhaps came into Fundiedom despite growing up in typical families) who have Dependent Personality Disorder. They literally cannot make their own decisions and gravitate towards anything that enables this because otherwise they are expected to become adults responsible for their own lives and choices. I'm thinking Lina (I think it's Lina anyway) whose parents wanted her to become an educated, independent adult but as adulthood approached, and the opportunity appeared, they delved head long into a fundamental religious belief that promised they would never have to be independent.

Nei Nei has shown shadows of this too, when she felt so overwhelmed by the "mean" man she wished her husband would come and rescue her.

[Renting with Raggles]

:clap:

Very well done. I've often thought about the 1st and 2nd division and how each caters to a certain kind of fundamentalist man. I'm sometimes confused by the first group since they spend so much time in 'scholarly' research that you would think they would run across a fact or two that would challenge their screwed-up worldview, but I guess that's what cognitive dissonance is all about, right? The VFs seem to be the sort who, as boys, really, really wanted to be top of the class but weren't really there, if you get my meaning. They weren't athletic or popular either so they created this theology and community where they can live their lives as complete fantasists. They can run around as Roman gladiators or army-guys and their wives and daughters enable this playtime instead of laughing at them. These guys are really engaged in an intellectual circle-jerk, for all their scholarship they produce nothing. There are no VF artists taking the world by storm, VF scientists are not sending their manly men into space or curing disease, and no academic institutions are prepared to honour Dougie for those videos of him in dress-up fondling veterans without their consent.

The Duggar type fathers make no pretensions to scholarly pursuits but get the same validation from being 'manly providers' in good blue-collar businesses they 'lead'. Of course they have to rely on television networks to actually provide for their super-families, but shh!- cognitive dissonance smooths over harsh realities here as well.

The 3rd division just goes under my radar - too dull for my taste.

[Maude]

Spot on. I think there's some crossover though, as Lilith mentioned, and not just between the first two. For instance, I don't think it would be inaccurate to say that all young, unmarried fundie women are stuck in perpetual childhood to some degree. It's pretty much a given when you aren't allowed to explore the world on your own terms. In fact, I find this to be true of many young fundie men as well.

[Librul]

Forgive me, but who is Genevieve?

She is a NZlander whose family was tight w the Botkins during their sojourn there. Her wedding at 30 or 31 to a younger man occasioned hours of pretentious speeches, letters, orations about generational faithfulness. She had a blog to encourage other young women, Isacharian Daughters. She has 3 or 4 blessings out of a few years of marriage and was very much in the vein of AS and E Botkins.

[Bellatrix]

This is a great breakdown of how the female role distribution amongst the children plays out in the fundie world.

I can't help but wonder if there are any families with a mix of say type 1, the Aristocratic mini-wives, and type 2, the Cinderella mini-mothers... Does anyone know of these? It would be an exception as type 1 usually applies to "smaller" fundie families (as well as type 3 which I believe our dear Rebecca Eleventy-Hundred!!!!!!!!!!11!!! is part of: very babied and in many ways immature), whereas type 2 is typical of the ATI/QF and other "armies of God" fundies.

Are there any examples of fundie fathers with a groomed mini-wife and a little harem of mini-mothers? :?:

[Esther]

I love typology, too, and I think this a pretty accurate breakdown.

I find Sarah Maxwell an interesting case in this regard. On the one hand, she is - like the rest of that family - perpetually infantilized (though without the borderline-nauseating amount of sheer JOY!!!1 that the Seven Sisters write about), but on the other hand, she's also Steve's mini-wife, possibly due to Teri's depression. One of the many reasons why he'll never let her marry.

[happy atheist]

I misread the thread title as Typography and was expecting a breakdown on the font choices used by fundie bloggers. While that might be entertaining, I think the real topic is far more interesting. Nice work.

[tabitha2]

I can't help but wonder if there are any families with a mix of say type 1, the Aristocratic mini-wives, and type 2, the Cinderella mini-mothers... Does anyone know of these?

The Coghlan girls are the closest relatively well known ones i can think of;though they lean closer to type 2 they have definite aspects of the former; They lack the aristocratic part but are very father centered although this might be because they had eight or nine daughters before the first son.

[jessablessa4realz]

:clap:

Very well done. I've often thought about the 1st and 2nd division and how each caters to a certain kind of fundamentalist man. I'm sometimes confused by the first group since they spend so much time in 'scholarly' research that you would think they would run across a fact or two that would challenge their screwed-up worldview, but I guess that's what cognitive dissonance is all about, right? The VFs seem to be the sort who, as boys, really, really wanted to be top of the class but weren't really there, if you get my meaning. They weren't athletic or popular either so they created this theology and community where they can live their lives as complete fantasists. They can run around as Roman gladiators or army-guys and their wives and daughters enable this playtime instead of laughing at them. These guys are really engaged in an intellectual circle-jerk, for all their scholarship they produce nothing. There are no VF artists taking the world by storm, VF scientists are not sending their manly men into space or curing disease, and no academic institutions are prepared to honour Dougie for those videos of him in dress-up fondling veterans without their consent.

The girls know and see things that would make them question their world view, but the allure of being "special" and "exalted" keep them drinking the kool aid.

[gingernut]

Very well done. I enjoyed this very much. I don't always meet others who like to "categorize" people like this and it is fun. I thought of the "Ah the Life" girls...who strike me as mini-wives with a little bit of freedom. (but not much)

[Little_Eyes]

This is great. Everyone new to FJ should read this.

I think that birth order and spacing often has a lot to do with if you become a 1/2/3. For example, the older girls are more likely to be a mini-wife if there aren't as many children, or if she has a lot of sisters to help cope. A girl would likely become a mini-mom if there is a lot of work to be done, or if there aren't the people to help out or if other sisters have claimed the mini-wife status. Whereas, the younger girls might have a greater chance of being a lifelong child because their sister moms have taken care of everything their whole lives.

/end hypothesis.

This typology is epic, thanks so much.

[impqueen]

I think in smaller (fundie but less QF) families, or families with few or only one girl, it is very possible for a daughter to meet both the mini-wife and mini-mom criteria as outlined above.

I am the oldest of four children, and my younger sister is 23 years my junior, with two brothers spaced widely between. Yes, my parents are still married. I was raised to think critically and to read voraciously, and while my family never went full-headcovering wackjob, my father was both an executive and a church-planting minister for most of my childhood and teen years.

Because two of my parents' children have severe behavioral issues, I became the trophy daughter. I was well dressed, well read, and well educated - and expected to have a higher standard of spiritual development, owing to my intellect, than my siblings. "To whom much is given, much is expected" was a refrain in my house. When we were out, I was on display. When we were home, or when my father was not home, I was helping raise my brothers and keeping a lid on my mom's issues. Fortunately, my family got a grip, but we were heading for full-bore fundie until I got divorced at 20 and my brother went to jail. Whoops.

[flojo]

Excellent analysis.

[Minerva]

The girls know and see things that would make them question their world view, but the allure of being "special" and "exalted" keep them drinking the kool aid.

I find type 1s fascinating because their parents so carefully have to strike a balance between educating them and allowing them to think for themselves. I agree that it's probably mostly about attracting a suitor of the desired class and background, but I also wonder if parents make their daughters into 1s or 2s based on their fears of them spitting out the kool-aid? Like, say their daughter is too curious and desiring of an education, so they let her get a fundie "degree" as a safe outlet for her intelligence and reward her for her continued kool-aid chugging despite having access to information by making her a princess. Or say their daughter is naturally rebellious and stubborn and they squish every opportunity for rebellion out of her by making her a type 2. (I totally see this last thing happening to Joy, despite the fact that there may be less need for another mini-mom in the TTC as she grows up).

[Librul]

:clap:

I've often thought about the 1st and 2nd division and how each caters to a certain kind of fundamentalist man. I'm sometimes confused by the first group since they spend so much time in 'scholarly' research that you would think they would run across a fact or two that would challenge their screwed-up worldview, but I guess that's what cognitive dissonance is all about, right? The VFs seem to be the sort who, as boys, really, really wanted to be top of the class but weren't really there, if you get my meaning. They weren't athletic or popular either so they created this theology and community where they can live their lives as complete fantasists. They can run around as Roman gladiators or army-guys and their wives and daughters enable this playtime instead of laughing at them. These guys are really engaged in an intellectual circle-jerk, for all their scholarship they produce nothing. There are no VF artists taking the world by storm, VF scientists are not sending their manly men into space or curing disease, and no academic institutions are prepared to honour Dougie for those videos of him in dress-up fondling veterans without their consent.

The Duggar type fathers make no pretensions to scholarly pursuits but get the same validation from being 'manly providers' in good blue-collar businesses they 'lead'. Of course they have to rely on television networks to actually provide for their super-families, but shh!- cognitive dissonance smooths over harsh realities here..

I agree. Don't you see Dougie LOL as the quintessential wannabe boy? Someone in another thread said that Bradrick!! was creating a little boy world that any other type of wife would full stop. In Fundie World, it's full speed ahead, gladiators, anacondas, cool IDs and all. I hate the waste of female minds and spirits, the sins that the men are encouraged to commit and the abuse of family life that is perpetuated by this clusterfuck that is fundie world.

[GenerationCedarchip]

Interesting categories. In my personal experience, I can think of plenty I saw who fit types 1 and 2. There were some 3s in our church, but they were definitely outliers and even among fundies, seen as a little weird.

When you hit late teens/early 20s, the types almost became exaggerated. If you've ever read the book Divergent by Veronica Roth, it almost reminds me of the initial descriptions of the factions there. The 1s would try to show off their piety, homemaking knowledge, (modest)fashion skill, etc... and the 2s would all be super-nurturing, vying with each other for nursery duty, etc... And the different types of fundie women would be aiming for different guys. The "trophy women" were mostly looking for future leaders and if a guy wasn't alpha enough or respected by the church, they weren't interested. If I had to go back to the fundie church, I would love to observe and write a book on mating rituals. It's crazy stuff.

[Seven Severn]

I wonder how much the family's level of income factors in in regards to the daughters' roles. (I keep trying to expand on this but it keeps coming out gibberish. Could anyone expand on this?)

[Wolfie]

I agree. Don't you see Dougie LOL as the quintessential wannabe boy? Someone in another thread said that Bradrick!! was creating a little boy world that any other type of wife would full stop. In Fundie World, it's full speed ahead, gladiators, anacondas, cool IDs and all. I hate the waste of female minds and spirits, the sins that the men are encouraged to commit and the abuse of family life that is perpetuated by this clusterfuck that is fundie world.

And the interesting thing is that both Phillips and Botkin have sisters who have done decently for themselves in the art world. With their arrogance toward women, maybe they feel sub-par when they think about that.