BYU student busted for "immodest" clothing

[longskirtlotsakids]

I remember reading an article by a woman who was chastised for wearing a soft blouse. It was neck high and wrist length. However, it was satiny and it caused one man to confess in sin to the pastor that he had impure thoughts of lingerie. SHe was mortified and her lesson in the article was to be careful in ALL aspects of your clothing, not just what it covers! It was soft, she wore it, therefor it was her fault this man had a fetish. After all, men are visual creatures!

What that article taught me was how utterly irresponsible it is to not teach men any control over their thoughts and urges.

[alysee]

Not neck skin, the skin on your chest between the bottom of your neck and the top of your breasts.... I don't even know the name for that part of my body but I was told it was "very defrauding". I don't believe it anymore, but at the time I would only be able to wear crew neck t-shirts instead of v-neck. I had to be really careful about scoop neck shirts because they might be cut too low.

Modesty is all about goal post shifting at some point. You can't show your bum/vulva so you have to cover those, well you can't show your thighs because they're so close to that area, your knees are connected to your thighs so we can't be seeing those, oh, your calves are right there in the open reminding me of your knees better cover those up......HOLY SHIT GIRL YOU'RE SHOWING OFF YOUR ANKLES!!!! That's so immodest!

When you live in a world where all sin is a woman's fault, the women never can do anything right.

I still don't get this even the Amish have modesty rules for both sexes. Shouldn't both sexes not " want to be a stumbling block". I grew up conservatively, and we had modesty rules for both. No, elbows, knees, bum, back or boobs showing. We even had similar swim gear, so it wasn't so atrocious as there modest swimwear for women.

[treemom]

That would have gotten you dinged at liberty. Skirts had to reach the bottom of your knees.

[MadameX]

Not neck skin, the skin on your chest between the bottom of your neck and the top of your breasts.... I don't even know the name for that part of my body but I was told it was "very defrauding". I don't believe it anymore, but at the time I would only be able to wear crew neck t-shirts instead of v-neck. I had to be really careful about scoop neck shirts because they might be cut too low.

Modesty is all about goal post shifting at some point. You can't show your bum/vulva so you have to cover those, well you can't show your thighs because they're so close to that area, your knees are connected to your thighs so we can't be seeing those, oh, your calves are right there in the open reminding me of your knees better cover those up......HOLY SHIT GIRL YOU'RE SHOWING OFF YOUR ANKLES!!!! That's so immodest!

When you live in a world where all sin is a woman's fault, the women never can do anything right.

I think we can call it décolletage. As you can see from my avatar picture, this is something on which I am an expert! :dance:

[browngrl]

That's really frightening. Anytime a guy goes out of his way to blame a woman for "negatively effecting" him by the way she dresses, then tries to shame her into dressing more to his standards - that raises huge red flags to me. :?

QFT

[BoomerLynn]

Anyone catch this little gem in the comments?

Yeah, the dress looks modest.. oh wait except for the fact that shes

basically baring all of her chest. Its strictly against the honor code. Wear a tank top underneath or something. Some people are just sensitive

to that, and when this girl is sitting down at a desk, shes probably

showing enough cleavage for any guy across the room to see. Its not

being a perv. Its doing your best to keep your thoughts as pure as

possible, and when the girl across from the library is an inch from

flashing you, it makes it pretty difficult...If you don't go to the

school, don't comment people

(bolding is mine)

Hey asshat, here's an idea....look the other way! Better yet, learn a little self-control :roll:

[MadameX]

Right! It is possible to both have sexual thoughts about and respect a woman at the same time. I know it's hard to balance two complicated ideas in your brain - it's so chock full of fundie BS there isn't a lot of room in there - but try real hard.

[nokidsmom]

I thought there was nothing wrong with her attire. She is pretty covered up, really.

What gets me is that note. It looks like it was written by a grade school student, not someone in college.

[debrand]

Anyone catch this little gem in the comments?

(bolding is mine)

Hey asshat, here's an idea....look the other way! Better yet, learn a little self-control :roll:

At the end, he tries to stop any dissent by informing people that only those who go to BYU can comment.

There is nothing wrong with her attire. I am sure that if she was breaking rules, the staff at BYU wold be capable of taking her aside and discussing the issue with her. The fact that she hasn't probably means that she is meeting their modesty standards.

The idea that a thought, whether sexual or not, can send you to hell is stupid and harmful.

[Hane]

Summary: Brotherman got a stiffy and it scared him.

[BoomerLynn]

At the end, he tries to stop any dissent by informing people that only those who go to BYU can comment.

There is nothing wrong with her attire. I am sure that if she was breaking rules, the staff at BYU wold be capable of taking her aside and discussing the issue with her. The fact that she hasn't probably means that she is meeting their modesty standards.

The idea that a thought, whether sexual or not, can send you to hell is stupid and harmful.

QFT

[FaustianSlip]

I get so sick of the whole, "Men are visual creatures!" crap. Um, I'm a visual creature. When I watch, say, the X-Men movies and see this:

You'd better believe I'm having a few impure thoughts, and it really doesn't much matter that he's pretty much covered up from neck to toe. I mean, imagination is a wonderful thing. Similarly, there is a guy who goes to the synagogue I attend occasionally here. He's cute- more than cute, actually. He's responsible for the only time I've ever thought, "Hmm, maybe that gender segregated prayer thing makes sense, after all." And his good looks aside, it's not like he's showing up to services in a speedo or something. It has more to do with the fact that I, for one, find someone who davens with intensity and purpose and who's into their Jewishness very attractive. So who's responsible for that? Him? After all, he's the one being all good-looking while he's praying, and I have no doubt that BYU boy there wouldn't hesitate to give me a good telling off if I somehow managed to be similarly attractive during sacrament meeting at the singles' ward. But I've always assumed it's my responsibility to remind myself that Kabbalat Shabbat services are not a dating service (though the kiddush afterward could be another story!), and I'm there to talk to God as opposed to enjoying the masculine scenery. It's not all that hard, and I fail to see any reason why men can't manage to do the same.

[Trynn]

When I first read the term "honor code" my brain registered it as "horror code." I had to blink a few times...

And yes, the "women aren't attracted to physicalness" bothered me a lot, because, unfortunately, I happen to be very visual for some reason. Not so much in that I WANT to it, but I just sometimes NOTICE things, you know? Maybe that doesn't make sense....

[Terrie]

Stuff like this makes me want to start calling out men on their "immodest" attire. You're wearing a button up shirt without a tie, and the top button's unbuttoned! Don't you know that makes women think about you taking off your shirt?!

Only, I could never do it without getting a massive case of the giggles, because "modesty," as fundies practice it, is such a silly concept.

[Defrauding Errday]

Why is that outfit considered immodest? Is it because she's showing her collarbones?

It's stuff like this that makes me hate strict modesty rules. Whatever you wear there is probably some guy who finds it defrauding. What do you do if the guy has a burqa/niqab/prairie-wear fetish?

[Jessica]

Why is that outfit considered immodest? Is it because she's showing her collarbones?

Yes. It's not official LDS doctine, but I know a lot of Young Women (class for lds girls ages 12-18, third hour of church) leaders will tell "their" girls to "Dress as if you're wearing garments even when you aren't, so when you start wearing them you won't need to buy a whole new wardrobe". If she wore that top with garments, they would be showing. The ends of the garment bottoms would show too, if she didn't have tights/leggings on. I think the outfit is perfectly fine, but according to the (Dis)honor code, it's just a tad low. :roll:

[freejoytoo]

:shock: Mormonism sounds crazier and crazier. What's the deal with the garments again? They look very uncomfortable.

I'd get thrown out of BYU in an instant, modesty wise. I used to live with four guys and would happily wander around the house in just my pyjamas without a bra. And it was never an issue!

[Jessica]

The garments are consant wedgies reminders of the "covenants" you make in the temple. The men's Gs have a nice sturdy hem so they stay put but the ladies tops and bottoms just have a serged edge so they roll up every .000005 seconds. If you put pants on with them on, they get all bunched up around the biggest part of your thigh, or if they stay put and you take more than 3 steps they ride up like there's no tomorrow. They're knee length--imagine a wedgie with knee-length fabric. Not fun.

[freejoytoo]

I wouldn't wear them and lie that I was. They sound uncomfortable as hell.

[Jessica]

Oh did I mention the bottoms come up past your rib cage? Gah...

[freejoytoo]

They must be awful to wear during summer.

[xReems]

For those wondering how temple garments look like, here you go:

How sexy would it be to see your spouse in that when trying to get it on. Such a turn on.

I've done papers regarding mormonism for some of my college papers--right up there with Scientology. It's definitely cult like. One of my friend attended BYU for a semester before transferring out. She could not handle all their rules nor could she handle the pressure of getting married young since a bulk of the students there either engaged or married.

[freejoytoo]

I just don't understand how anyone can take Mormonism seriously. It's so blatantly a setup.

[Jessica]

Yeah, you're supposed to wear them at all times except showering, sex, swimming, and things like that. So you can't even wear a little summer dress because the part that covers your shoulders might show. So in 110 degree Utah summers ya have to wear a little sweater or bolero over the dress.

And yep, then when you're married there's the pressure to have kids immediayely. Even if you're in school (C's cousin graduated with 2 kids under 2). If you wait, you don't have enough faith. Don't believe me? Neil L Anderson October 2011 General Conference. There ya go.

[Dinorah]

The outfit's low-necked even if she isn't showing any cleavage and the dress is above the knees so it could be constructed as being "immodest" if you're obsessed about modesty. It's certainly not modest for Orthodox Jewish standards, for instance.