If Fundie Women Had Jobs Would They Be the Workplace Bully?

[GolightlyGrrl]

Thanks for all of your input. To me, a bully is just that, a bully. It doesn't always hinge on religion and political-affiliation. I recently had a dust-up with a local art gallery dealer who is definitely not a fundie. I wrote an article about a local artist who had her work exhibited at his gallery and he blew a gasket that I didn't interview him even though he and his gallery were not the main focus of the article. He sent me the most scathing and condescending e-mail I have ever received. I did throw him a bone and asked a few questions about his gallery and his decision to showcase the artist. My publisher and editor told me not to worry about this gallery owner. He's pretty much well-known for being a total douchenozzle, and they'll support me no matter what.

But to be more OT. Yea, I definitely get a bully vibe from some of the fundies we discuss. And if they're not bullies, they're definitely petty, vindictive and manipulative. I bet a lot of them left the workplace in a huff because nobody would kiss their asses. I'm glad they were thwarted early in the game. I can only imagine the damage they would do if they were still working.

[JesusFightClub]

Austin

I agree with you. I know you didn't direct this at me, but I'd still like to answer. You defiantly have to respect and caremfor your employees, i agree 110%. What I was responding to was the assertion that if you performed your job in line with those 3 statements you are a bully.

PharmDMommy, I think demanding rigid adherence to the rules (no matter what the circumstances are), expecting 100 percent cheerful compliance at all times and wanting total control of an employee's life are all bullying tactics, yes. I am not sure what's controversial about this.

[Katiebug]

PharmDMommy, I think demanding rigid adherence to the rules (no matter what the circumstances are), expecting 100 percent cheerful compliance at all times and wanting total control of an employee's life are all bullying tactics, yes. I am not sure what's controversial about this.

I have no problem with demanding rigid adherence to the rules, no matter the circumstances. I'm an engineer and I work in the elevator industry. Sadly this is an industry where people can and do get killed when they cut corners and don't follow established safety rules. When I am performing a test or am on a field visit I'm trusting the technician or mechanic with my life (and vice versa). So yeah, Joe Mechanic is going to adhere to the rules because if he doesn't I might not go home to my husband and our baby. I'm sorry if he doesn't want to do it or thinks I'm being a tyrant by demanding it - if he doesn't do so after I firmly but politely tell him to, I will be walking off the job and contacting both of our supervisors. To put it bluntly my employer has made it a condition of continued employment to follow these rules and I have no issue with that - when it's my butt on the line there will be no shortcuts!

On the design side of the job, if I feel like not following basic engineering design guidelines or skip doing a stress calculation and a part fails, it could hurt or kill an unsuspecting member of the public. That's why we have standard work and all engineers' calculations and analyses are checked by a coworker as a matter of course. It's not to call someone out for being wrong, it's because a mistake not only costs the company a lot of money but could hurt some unsuspecting member of the public. My PE license could well be on the line if I failed to check a coworker's calculations - but further I'd never forgive myself if my mistake or laziness hurt or killed someone.

If you are in an industry where others' lives or your own life depends on following the rules you tend to feel a bit differently. If it makes me a bully to follow them and expect 100% compliance from those working for and with me, so be it. I always do so in a respectful way but I want to go home to my baby at night.

I agree with you on 100% cheerful compliance and trying to control every aspect of an employee's life. What my summer intern does outside of work is not my concern so long as it's not affecting his performance in the office (i.e. if he was coming in hungover every day to the point where he can't do his job, I'd have a concern and would have HR or our manager do some counseling). In your example earlier, if an employee came in late having had a miscarriage or some other family or personal crisis, I'd find a way to send her home (with pay if possible) and would provide the number for our employee assistance program if she wanted someone to talk to. I'm not heartless and quite frankly someone going through an extreme emotional situation is not someone who is focused on his or her work that day anyways. A person I'm working with is free to grumble and complain about stupid safety rules (and sometimes they do) and that's their prerogative as long as they do them.

[JesusFightClub]

Ah, Katiebug, you and PharmDMommy are both saying the same thing and I'm sorry. I wasn't putting forward exactly what I meant.

You both work in careers where a tiny slip can be fatal or at least seriously screw things up. When I said rigidly adhering to the rules was the sign of a bad manager, I meant things like the case (which is a real case) I said about the woman who had miscarried. In that case I think both you and PharmDMommy would take one look at a woman devastated and grieving who had mechanically put her clothes on and dragged herself to work and realise she wasn't a functioning worker that day. The manager I'm talking about didn't. She saw an annoying problem with streaked makeup who didn't come in at 0830. The rules were, you're customer facing so you look good, and you come in at 0830 even if you flushed the remains of your much wanted baby down the loo at 0745.

Health and safety rules shouldn't be compromised. If a worker is obviously having an absolutely shit day and might, distractedly, make serious mistakes, I guess you guys would send her home. But each individual employee is an individual person and should be treated with care and gentleness. What I was trying to get at was fundies can't do that. They don't seem to be able to look at the person and think "That person can't carry out her tasks, I want to make sure she's OK." Instead they are thinking "Well, she knows the rules, why can't she just behave?"

A further example. I was at a conference when I was called outside and given the news a close family member had been murdered. I collapsed when I heard and had to go home. I broke three rules. Someone called me out of the conference (disrupting the conference!) I went out (ignoring the speaker!) I went home (I was told to be there until 5 pm!)

So what I meant was rigid compliance to all even petty rules. Does it make more sense?

[Rosa]

Well, and if you're demanding 100% compliance, the rules shouldn't be petty.

Like, rules about medication should be 100% compliance. Rules about wearing pantyhose shouldn't be. I had a terrible (not bullying, she was actually pretty tame) manager one time who used to walk up to me and pick up my PANT leg to see if I was wearing hose, because the rules said women in the office had to wear pantyhose, and I wouldn't. Not every single rule in your workplace (No popcorn in the microwave! No ever getting personal phone calls! No being more than 90 seconds late! - I've worked in places with all those rules) can be 100% life or death.

[Austin]

Well, and if you're demanding 100% compliance, the rules shouldn't be petty.

Like, rules about medication should be 100% compliance. Rules about wearing pantyhose shouldn't be. I had a terrible (not bullying, she was actually pretty tame) manager one time who used to walk up to me and pick up my PANT leg to see if I was wearing hose, because the rules said women in the office had to wear pantyhose, and I wouldn't. Not every single rule in your workplace (No popcorn in the microwave! No ever getting personal phone calls! No being more than 90 seconds late! - I've worked in places with all those rules) can be 100% life or death.

When I turned 45, I decided I would never wear pantyhose to work again unless it was my choice. If anyone has ever seen the HBO hit show Six Feet Under - the episode with the Claire character has to take a temp job and is forced to wear hosiery. She does a hilarious parody using the song, "You Light Up My Life". I think she changed the words to "You Ride Up My Crotch". :lol:

When men are forced to encase their packages in nylon, that's when I will agree to wear hosiery again unless I absolutely feel like it. Which would be very infrequently. . .

[Cassandra]

My new supervisor is definitely fundie. She doesn't really bring up religion that much, and she isn't really a bully. Mostly she has that whole 'The Man is bringing me down' and 'the rest of the administration is against me' attitude, which is really getting old, but whatever.

I just remember on my first day she went on this big 45 minute lecture about the work place and said "The bible tells us that the employer is supposed to look out for the employee and vice versa, and that just doesn't seem to happen anymore".

I definitely think a lot of these fundie women (who are bosses) would have no interest in looking out for anyone but themselves.

[Rosa]

Yeah, it was when the economy was good and it was a minimum-wage part time job. I could have walked and found an equally good job at any moment (actually, I worked for that retail chain off and on for six years, 2 different locations, 3 managers. I was fired twice and quit once and each time they begged me to come back PLEASE there's nobody to fill your shift/it was a bluff/of course we can work through this misunderstanding.)

[freehannie]

I've had awful office bullies, both fundie-light and not religious at all. The fundie-lite was, like me, working on her master's degree in math and working as a graduate asst. teaching algebra to freshmen at a state university. Despite several of her co-workers mentioning that wearing lots of religious clothing and carrying a religious tote bag to class every day could potentially alienate several of her students, she persisted in doing so. (When I got my ed. degree it was pretty typical to be told not to wear either religious or political slogans, etc. for this reason). She frequently discussed how my decisions to hyphenate my last name, not stay home when I had children, yadda, yadda, were wrong. She was only working because her husband who barely graduated from high school was working on his ministry degree (except he couldn't pass the math class he needed) and couldn't make enough to support them. If we had to do a study group together, she had to call and ask her husband's permission first. To say that we butted heads doesn't quite do it justice but at least she was just a co-worker and had no authority over me. She just annoyed the hell out of me for the two years we were there together. Funnily enough, last I heard, she was supporting her husband by working at a small liberal arts college. I'm sure she's annoying her officemates there.

[Rosa]

Ugh, Freehannie. It sounds like you handled it well.

I've actually worked with lots of fundy and fundy-lite women, and most of them were not at all bullying - they kind of came pre-doormatted and were way too easy to accidentally push around just by expressing an opinion or asking for help.

But the BLOGGERS we talk about - most of them are bullies, at least on their blogs and with their children.So they would be at work too. And basically anyone who thinks being the salt or the light or whatnot includes telling you how awesomely religious they are is probably that type too.