Josiah takes on Science

[formergothardite]

This actually explains a lot about why he was completly incapable of any sort of logical debate. Here is some of his views on Science:

‘Facts’ are neutral. However, there are no such things as ‘brute facts’; all facts are interpreted. Once the Bible is eliminated in the argument, then the Christians’ presuppositions are gone, leaving them unable to effectively give an alternate interpretation of the facts. Their opponents then have the upper hand as they still have their presuppositions—see Naturalism, logic and reality.

I also believe that we cannot use logic and reason effectively without God. Logic and reason has a definite good and a definite evil. The source of that is God, and it is spelled out in His word. In summary, we must start with the Bible and view Science through that lens.

Oh my. Basing beliefs on reality is so horrible.

If we see the evidence in Science, and interpret the facts contrary in any way to God's plain and clear teaching in His Holy Word, than we have come up with a faulty conclusion. We must rewrite our thesis to line up with God's Word.

:?

The debate is not about the facts. It is about the mind-set.

This is very clear in his arguments. Any facts that don't back him up can just be tossed. He can never lose because he ignores everything that doesn't prove what he already believes. His mind is as closed as his heart is cold. Oh, and I wonder if in all of his Bible study he has noticed that there are two different versions of the Creation story? Or does that not line up with his beliefs, so that is a fact that can be ignored?

biblicalbeginnings.com/2010/08/explanation-of-is-science-in-box.html

[cindyluvs24]

No sweetie. Facts are not neutral. 2+2=4 whether you're a heathen or not. Poor dumb kid. Perhaps he would like to abolish gravity in favor of Intelligent Falling.

[cindyluvs24]

These people tend to believe that the more words they use in their argument, the more valid the argument. Having worked in Federal Court (back when I was an interesting person) This is so not the case. Seriously, do these people just stay in their own little worlds, impressing each other or have they ever tested their mettle out in an unfriendly environment?

[formergothardite]

Well, he did come here and flounced when people expected him to use logic, facts and reason. And worst of all, people expected him actually strive to be like Jesus, since he claims to be a Christian and all. But since he was homeschooled and works for his dad, I doubt he is exposed a great deal outside his little bubble.

[Witsec1]

Libby from Love Joy Feminism had a post on this. It's a reformed Calvinist thing, I guess.

http://lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/201 ... alism.html

.

Evidentialist apologetics is traditionally associated with evangelicalism and fundamentalism while presuppositionalist apologetics is associated with more reformed traditions. This actually makes a lot of sense given that arminianism emphasizes free will while calvinism emphasizes predestination. It also makes sense given that Cornelius Van Til and Francis Schaeffer, both reformed, are the major luminaries who developed presuppositionalist apologetics. More and more these days this approach is spreading beyond reformed circles and into evangelicalism and fundamentalism in general.

[meow139]

oh Josiah. Run, please. Go to a realms tool, where you can learn about fucks, real meth and science.

[Witsec1]

oh Josiah. Run, please. Go to a realms tool, where you can learn about fucks, real meth and science.

erm... autocorrect?

[snarkbillie]

Well, he did come here and flounced when people expected him to use logic, facts and reason. And worst of all, people expected him actually strive to be like Jesus, since he claims to be a Christian and all. But since he was homeschooled and works for his dad, I doubt he is exposed a great deal outside his little bubble.

wha?????? I need a link!

[meow139]

oh Josiah. Run, please. Go to a real school, where you can learn about facts, real math and science.

SHIT!!! NOT WHAT I MEANT TO SAY!!! see above

[Witsec1]

SHIT!!! NOT WHAT I MEANT TO SAY!!! see above

It was way funnier, though. :lol:

[dairyfreelife]

‘Facts’ are neutral. However, there are no such things as ‘brute facts’; all facts are interpreted.

Thanks for the tip, Sherlock.

Once the Bible is eliminated in the argument, then the Christians’ presuppositions are gone, leaving them unable to effectively give an alternate interpretation of the facts. Their opponents then have the upper hand as they still have their presuppositions—see Naturalism, logic and reality.

I also believe that we cannot use logic and reason effectively without God. Logic and reason has a definite good and a definite evil. The source of that is God, and it is spelled out in His word. In summary, we must start with the Bible and view Science through that lens.

What? There are many gray areas in life, everything isn't black and white, but he's a sheltered 18yo with no life experience so he doesn't get that. And it sounds like he is trying to say that without the Bible we cannot reason or have logic, but yet he is saying that Christians don't know how to reason without quoting scripture and if they quote scripture they will always win. In your dreams, pal. I know pastors that would tear him down if he attempted to quote his brainwashed idea of the Bible. Hell, I could quote scripture (I've read the whole NIV Bible) and kick his arse with his poorly constructed reasoning and arguments. I think many of us could.

If we see the evidence in Science, and interpret the facts contrary in any way to God's plain and clear teaching in His Holy Word, than we have come up with a faulty conclusion. We must rewrite our thesis to line up with God's Word.

:?

The debate is not about the facts. It is about the mind-set.

Um...uh...what? Does he even know what a thesis is?

This is very clear in his arguments. Any facts that don't back him up can just be tossed. He can never lose because he ignores everything that doesn't prove what he already believes. His mind is as closed as his heart is cold. Oh, and I wonder if in all of his Bible study he has noticed that there are two different versions of the Creation story? Or does that not line up with his beliefs, so that is a fact that can be ignored?

I bet he unaware there are two versions. His parents have totally brainwashed him. There are also many other "creation" stories out there too which is why when I hear about ID/Creationism being taught in schools, I want to say "okay, let's teach all the ideas of how the world came into being starting with the Mayan interpretation, then Yin/Yang, then Australian Aboriginal, etc."

Yes, it would not line up with his indoctrinated beliefs so he would ignore any other idea of how the world came to be. He's right and everyone else is wrong-typical 18yo who has no life experience and this kid has far less experience than most at the same age.

[dairyfreelife]

It was way funnier, though. :lol:

Agreed. I like the first version-we know that's what they fear.

[Sunnichick31]

oh Josiah. Run, please. Go to a realms tool, where you can learn about fucks, real meth and science.

Geez, you really want him to become a sex addicted drugged out heathen scientist don't you?? :D

[pixydust]

SHIT!!! NOT WHAT I MEANT TO SAY!!! see above

Who else wants Meow139's auto-corrects to be post-count tags? Come on, I want to be a "Go to a real school, where you can learn about fucks"! :dance:

[Renting with Raggles]

He doesn't know what science is or how it works. That screed was taken from a creationist site. I wish fundies could be persuaded to read a real science textbook. They always claim to 'look at both sides', but it is obvious they get their ideas about science straight from people firmly on the side of myth. His assertions above are based on a straw-man version of science, you would have to give him a remedial secondary education to refute his claims.

Science is constructs models that make testable predictions about observable phenomena. When these tests yield consistent, repeated results the model can be used to explain physical properties of the universe. Perhaps josiah could repeat the results of this 'experiment' from Genesis:

30:37 And Jacob took him rods of green poplar, and of the hazel and chesnut tree; and pilled white strakes in them, and made the white appear which was in the rods.

30:38 And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink, that they should conceive when they came to drink.

30:39 And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.

[Sunnichick31]

Who else wants Meow139's auto-corrects to be post-count tags? Come on, I want to be a "Go to a real school, where you can learn about fucks"! :dance:

I second that!!

[Witsec7]

Josiah needs to take on the study of his mother tongue. The website he did for his father's business reads like it was written by a third grader.

[celestial]

Seriously, do these people just stay in their own little worlds, impressing each other

In a word, yes.

or have they ever tested their mettle out in an unfriendly environment?

In a word, no.

[celestial]

wha?????? I need a link!

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6221

[formergothardite]

oh Josiah. Run, please. Go to a realms tool, where you can learn about fucks, real meth and science.

This made me laugh and laugh and laugh. :clap:

[formergothardite]

Apparently I suck and google and internet stalking, how are you finding his father's business?

[fakepigtails73]

Apparently I suck and google and internet stalking, how are you finding his father's business?

Yeah I'd like to know about it too... :think:

[formergothardite]

From his other post about science:

We need to take Science out of the cloud, and place it firm on the rock of Christ and the Gospel.

So we are supposed to take a 19 year old's interpretation of a book that is so vague most people can't agree with what it is really saying over proven facts. Right.

[Witsec7]

Apparently I suck and google and internet stalking, how are you finding his father's business?

I googled his name. It came up with a business license and DBA info. Then I google the name of the business. :D Not bad for an old broad who is having major track pad problems today :lol:

[slickcat79]

Logic and reason has a definite good and a definite evil. The source of that is God, and it is spelled out in His word. In summary, we must start with the Bible and view Science through that lens.

No.