What does it mean to live by literal biblical interpretation

[Sinister Rouge]

So, someone quite dear to me has recently been baptised into the Baptist faith. Then she announced her pregnancy by her Baptist fiancee - which, by the way, is appropriately miraculous for this time of year as they claim to have been practicing abstinence . They got married last week.

 

She tells me all the time that the Bible is the word of God and is to be taken literally. I'm quite familiar with the Bible, and I think it's for this reason that I've been having trouble wrapping my head around what biblical literalism really means. For instance, today it struck me that it means, presumably, that she denies evolution. EVOLUTION.

 

It also means that the part of her vows where their youth pastor said that woman was made from Adam's rib and thus she was becoming a part of her husband's body, and therefore must always remember that she owes him (her new husband) her life - yeah, they meant that literally.

 

I know this is something I need to ask her more about, but I just find myself so literally baffled by the stuff she says that our conversations don't often get very far - part of me is floored by it, part of me wants to be careful not to hurt her feelings so I clam up.

 

These concepts are pretty incomprehensible to my generally rational self, so I'm wondering, fellow FreeJingerites - if someone takes the Bible literally, what exactly does that mean they believe? Please help me wrap my head around this.

[kayray]

I recommend you read The Year of Living Biblically.

Your friend better be stoning adulterers, wearing all white, not mixing her clothing fibers, not trimming her beard (ha!) and whatever other fun things!

Here is an example of the "fun" things that a literal interpretation would mean:

ajjacobs.com/books/yolb.asp?id=rules

[houseworksucks]

Growing up in the bible belt, the "literal" biblical interpretation I saw was extremely selective. As such, what a literally biblical life means usually has a lot to do with the group instigating the rules, and not so much to do with all the literally interpreted teachings of the bible.

For example, she probably won't be doing this, given the timing of her pregnancy: (On marrying a virgin) "But if ... evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones..." (Deuteronomy 22:20,21)

That said, if you're interested in the complex craziness that is biblical rule, a great book to read is The Year Of Living Biblically. It's actually pretty touching, as well as funny. If you're interested in what a literal interpretation of the bible means to her, you're probably best off checking with her.

[emmiedahl]

Okay. So she does not let cattle of different breeds graze together, plant different vegetables in the same garden or wear mixed fabric? Leviticus 19:19! She does not want her husband to cut his hair or shave? Leviticus 19:27! She does not believe that people with flat noses or disabilities should be allowed at the church altar? Leviticus 21:17-18! She plans to immediately stone to death anyone who curses? Leviticus 24:14-16! She plans to kill anyone who follows a different religion? Deuteronomy 17:2-7! She does not plan to have sex for the duration of her period and seven days thereafter? Leviticus 15:19-20!

I was reading, there are so many things that can get you executed in the Bible. Fundies like to point out homosexuality, but there is also adultery, reading a horoscope, being disrespectful to your parents, being a drunk, blasphemy, working on Saturdays, perjuring youself, etc. Usually by stoning.

We all need to be worried if America really becomes a Christian nation. It will be the most oppressive theocracy on the globe.

[Sinister Rouge]

I'm definitely going to check out A Year of Living Biblically! Thanks!

Growing up in the bible belt, the "literal" biblical interpretation I saw was extremely selective. As such, what a literally biblical life means usually has a lot to do with the group instigating the rules, and not so much to do with all the literally interpreted teachings of the bible.

I'm pretty sure she has no idea what it actually means to follow the bible to the letter. I doubt she has even had time to read the whole thing in the time she's known this guy- she's gone from agnosti-pagan to Baptist in 6 months.

Okay. So she does not let cattle of different breeds graze together, plant different vegetables in the same garden or wear mixed fabric? Leviticus 19:19! She does not want her husband to cut his hair or shave? Leviticus 19:27! She does not believe that people with flat noses or disabilities should be allowed at the church altar? Leviticus 21:17-18! She plans to immediately stone to death anyone who curses? Leviticus 24:14-16! She plans to kill anyone who follows a different religion? Deuteronomy 17:2-7! She does not plan to have sex for the duration of her period and seven days thereafter? Leviticus 15:19-20!

See, this is what I don't understand about the whole thing! How can any reasonable person actually, honestly, claim that the Bible is to be taken literally and obeyed as such, if it's actually almost impossible to do? And if they don't believe all those lines exactly, then why tell me that all interpretation of the bible is a bastardization of God's word and is wrong if that's exactly what they're doing? I've asked her fiancee exactly this and he told me that they don't follow the actual bible, rather some Baptist version? IDK, I forget what it's called - but it's still the exact word of God, you know!

I don't understand people.

[Conuly]

Then she announced her pregnancy by her Baptist fiancee - which, by the way, is appropriately miraculous for this time of year as they claim to have been practicing abstinence :roll: .

Practicing, but they hadn't perfected it yet. (Add another failure to the abstinence method of birth control. The lab rate may be 100%, but the real-world rate is probably lower than condoms.)

And what I want to know is not whether your friend denies evolution, but whether she denies the heliocentric model of the solar system.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

This is what makes me crazy about the "bible believing Christians". They pick and choose what they are believing and throw out the rest, and see nothing hypocritical about that.

[bananacat]

I'd really like to see more biblical literalists following the biblical commands for handling mold inside a house. They shouldn't be calling a contractor; they should call a priest.

And there's also a really fantastic verse in Leviticus commanding people to take a shovel, go outside the camp to poop, and then bury it so when God walks through the camp, he won't step in it. Yet I've never met a biblical literalist who buries their poop outside of town. God hates indoor plumbing!

[Turtle]

It means you have to check your brains in at the door, basically.

I love how my Baptist family claims to take the whole Bible literally, even when it makes absolutely no sense (two back to back creation stories,ect) but think Catholics are disgusting heathens for their doctrine of transubstantiation. Obvs everything should be taken literally, except for that one thing, which was totally figurative. Duh.

[Rosa]

we have a friend who was raised on the literal Bible, who started investigating when his church came out all anti-climate change for Bible reasons, and when he actually read the old testament and saw things like giants and 990 year old dudes in it, became an atheist.

Because it's a WHOLE Bible, not a Bible full of holes!

That is my favorite Bible literalist story.

[Kaylee]

Growing up in the bible belt, the "literal" biblical interpretation I saw was extremely selective. As such, what a literally biblical life means usually has a lot to do with the group instigating the rules, and not so much to do with all the literally interpreted teachings of the bible.

This, and most groups that harp on it seem to have at least some rules or traditions that contradict the literal interpretation (I'm looking at you "Wine is really grape juice" Baptists).

If anything, I think most fundamentalists would find themselves being commanded to be much more accepting and socially liberal than their churches would allow if they were to really take the New Testament literally.

[synchroswimr]

The reasoning I've heard most frequently for not following all the Old Testament laws is that there were Civil, Ceremonial and Moral laws. Jesus did away with (somehow) the first two but not the Moral ones. This is why they can wear a cotton/poly blend but women shouldn't wear that which "pertaineth" to a man. Oh, and why teh gay is so bad.

I also don't remember which theologian posited the idea, butmaybe someone here does

[emmiedahl]

But who decides whether a rule is civil, ceremonial or moral? Some guy who wants to cut his hair and wear poly-blend, that's who.

I should not be so snarky, being part of a religion in which these rules are interpreted pretty literally. But I hate the cherry-picking combined with literalism. Outside of stoning people, Orthodox Jews at least walk the walk more consistently. I can understand why they do what they do, even if I personally do not follow a lot of these laws. And I am glad they don't routinely stone people...

btw, you cannot say the world was created in seven days AND Jesus was drinking grape juice.

[synchroswimr]

But who decides whether a rule is civil, ceremonial or moral? Some guy who wants to cut his hair and wear poly-blend, that's who.

I should not be so snarky, being part of a religion in which these rules are interpreted pretty literally. But I hate the cherry-picking combined with literalism. Outside of stoning people, Orthodox Jews at least walk the walk more consistently. I can understand why they do what they do, even if I personally do not follow a lot of these laws. And I am glad they don't routinely stone people...

btw, you cannot say the world was created in seven days AND Jesus was drinking grape juice.

Oh, yes - I totally agree. Who decides that the creation story is literally true but that some other story is allegory? Yeah - my comment was not to say that it made sense to me. :-)

[thoughtful]

I don't think it's possible to believe in the entire Bible -- it keeps contradicting itself:

http://www.1001biblecontradictions.com/

[Vex]

To me, it means nothing because they never take literally everything literally. There's always some caveat, some exception, some room for 'interpretation'. Part of that it of course because the bible contradicts itself so many times, but it's also their way to get around things that they don't like or agree with.

[Eclipse]

I don't understand people who take it literally. What creation story does your friend believe in? Because there are two in Genesis and things happen in a different order and different way. The Bible is full of contradictions and anyone who takes it literally is picking in choosing. The rules found in it are written for very different times and different places. Does the Bible ever say that slavery is wrong? I just remember it seemingly being OK with it. Did she have wedding photos because that could violate the second commandment.

Jesus was drinking wine with alcohol! That was what they meant when he turned the whole water into wine bit. The alcohol made the liquid safer to drink than the water or juice back then.

If you live that way you have a life devoid of fun. I would never stone anyone who is gay, they throw the best Halloween parties (in my experience).

[Sinister Rouge]

It kind of seems to me to be a way to completely avoid having to take any personal responsibility or having to develop your own moral code - you just default to "well, the bible says...". Much like in the other thread, "What is it like believing that God influences everything". And if anyone challenges you on it, you just default to repeating relevant parts of the story book.

She has wedding photos, but it was a dry reception. They made a big deal about that.

I don't know. Who am I to tell her she's wrong? Just because the bible means nothing to me (beyond its powerful control over many people with which I share a planet) doesn't mean she's wrong to try and live by it. But then, she told me the other day that she honestly believes that Jesus created her husband as the "perfect other half of my soul", and that her whole life has been orchestrated by the big J. It just throws me off completely because it's such a completely foreign concept and seems completely insane on the basis of how wholly unreasonable and irrational it is.

TL;DR: I guess it's just scary how quickly she's converted to something that seems absolutely crazy to me.

[Rosa]

heh, the other half of the soul thing is totally pre-Christian Greece (it's from Plato). Your friend might just be the kind of person who believes a lot of what she's told and doesn't need it to be coherent. If you're lucky, that will save her from going completely off the deep end - a lot of people like that can talk the talk without walking the walk, so if they're told to do something awful for theological reasons they'll nod and agree and then just not do it, without it being a big deal.

[freealljs]

In high school, I went to a fundy church that espoused a "literalist approach to the Bible", because my best friend's parents were fundy and they told us that we could not be friends if I didn't convert to their form of Christianity. Women were told not to cut their hair, wear makeup that drew attention to their features, to wear long skirts and shirts buttoned up all the way (watching the Duggar show brought back sad memories for me), and that women were to be subservient to men. I was expected to keep a happy countenance all the time. I was also told not to listen to any music (even religious music) that could be danced to or had a beat. I do remember being told by the pastor at the last sermon I attended after my third year in fundy-ism, that the earth was the center of the universe, laughing a bit about it, and then leaving that church and ending my fundy ways after that.

I suppose much of my empathy for Josh Duggar and the other Duggar children comes from having "been there, done that". Maybe that's why I'm so curious about the Duggar children. I just want Josh to know (assuming he trolls these sites) that he can be a good Christian husband and father and not go off the deep end like his own parents. I pick on Josh because he no longer lives at TTH and probably has some savings from the show to leave NW Arkansas and make it on his own without being under his father's thumb.

I hope those who have converted to this form of fundy-ism will get a wake up call. They won't leave because it's irrational and absurd, because they've been taught that people will "test" their faith, but they can get out of fundy-ism, and I think, most do eventually, for one reason or other.

[LIzzieB]

In high school, I went to a fundy church that espoused a "literalist approach to the Bible", because my best friend's parents were fundy and they told us that we could not be friends if I didn't convert to their form of Christianity.

Seriously? What did your parents have to say about that?

[freealljs]

Seriously I did. My parents didn't realize until I started dressing like the Duggar girls and was "keeping sweet" all the time, unlike most hormonal annoying teenagers. Around my third year in fundy-ism, my parents were talking about sending me to live with my aunt and uncle and my cousins. About the time that the pastor gave the sermon about the earth being the center of the universe, I was starting to ask some tough questions myself. I had begun reading "contraband" (ie, a list made by this pastor of books that were considered anti-Christian. Can you believe that idiotic pastor banned Laura Ingalls Wilder? That's what made me start to think he didn't have all the answers after all). I think at first, my parents thought it was great that I was being a sweet, innocent teenager that didn't do drugs or have pre-marital sex. But it was around the second year, that they noticed I was had lost my spark.

I know my best friend at the time, she rebelled big when she turned 18. She moved out of her parent's house and wouldn't step foot in any type of church, unless it was for a wedding or funeral. Quite sad, and her parents probably thought that their eldest daughter would never do such a thing as stop attending church and believing in God. She also doesn't have any children, given that she was raising her siblings from the time she could change their diapers. My only hope is that Michelle does see what she is doing by forcing her 4 daughters to be sister moms, because I saw first hand what happened to my high school best friend and the resentment she felt against her own mother.

[godlytomatosoup]

I doubt she has even had time to read the whole thing in the time she's known this guy- she's gone from agnosti-pagan to Baptist in 6 months.

Slight derail: that's plenty of time to read the Bible, if you have an hour a day. You can download schedules to read the Bible in a particular time, and I think there's even software that will divide it up if you can't find a schedule that fits. My favourite is the Bible in 90 Days. It didn't make me a Christian, but I certainly know a lot more about the Bible than I did when I started.

And if you want to do some fundie-spotting at the same time, join the Mom's Toolbox twitter party during one of their regular read-throughs, and marvel at how every technical problem is an example of Satan personally intervening to stop them from reading God's Word. But they will prevail: they are PRAYER WARRIORS. (I shouldn't mock, they're actually quite sweet. It just got on my nerves a lot how every single thing they read seemed to conform to what they already believed about God. Nothing about this book upset them at all. And it certainly upset me.)