I don't understand. Why Do People Hate Gays?

[FJismyheadship]

(If I say something wrong, please correct me. I'm not entirely certain how to phrase this, so if I misuse a word, or something, please feel free to tell me... I'm trying not to seem ignorant or offensive)

If being gay is so wrong, why are there people that are? Why is it that people think its a choice?

This hasn't been an issue for me in the past. Before, all I knew was that I accepted the fact that there are gays, and some of them are good friends of mine. I accepted that some people didn't like that, and to that I said "Oh well" My aunt is gay, and has been with a woman who I have also called my aunt for as long as I can remember.

What made this start rolling around in my head is that I have a friend who is gay. I love her to death, and consider her family. When I found out, I was surprised, but I accepted it and moved on. The problem is that because the Bible says that homosexuality is wrong, she's gone celibate. The thing is, she's told me that men make her nauseous. As far as I know, she's never had any interest in men ever.

At first I thought "Okay, thats her choice to be celibate." Which it is! Then I noticed some things about her that kinda made me sad. She talked to me once about her ex, and she sounded so sad... she really missed her. Sometimes in church, I'll see her flip back to Leviticus and start reading the part about homosexuality being an abomination. It seems like she has to surpress this part of her.

Then I heard a girl at church saying she thought homosexuality was gross, and she spoke with such hatred, that I was surprised. I've learned since then that this girl is a little mean, so I'm kind of distancing myself...

Anyway, this got to the point where I went and asked my friends brother the question I'm posing to you guys. He said its a choice, just like being a drunk is a choice. I couldnt wrap my mind around it. I had a friend when I was 16 who already knew he was gay. Well, he wasn't sure yet, because it was confusing to him (he grew up in a church setting too) but everyone knew it anyway. Its the ONLY reason my dad let me go to his sleepover. I said "Dad... he's gay" and that changed from "WHY IS A 15 YEAR OLD BOY HAVING GIRLS AT A SLEEPOVER!?" to "Oh. You can go"

Part of me wants to ask my friend this, because I want her input... but this is really confusing for me. I'm not sure I'm ready to ask her that. I don't understand... if its so bad, why would God put those desires in people? I firmly believe that it's not a choice, it's just the way a person is.

I'm sorry for the long winded post. I hope ya'll are able to keep up with this haha. I'm confused about it though, and nobody is able to give me an answer. I tried to ask someone else, and he told me "Well, she's not meant to marry, she's meant to be alone. Thats why she's like that." THAT really doesnt make sense, because everyone deserves to be happy and have someone to love... I dont think anyones MEANT to be alone.

I figured I'd come to you guys with this question. And for those of you who are more eloquent with your words, maybe you can help me figure out how to ask the question a little better so that when I am ready to ask my friend HER opinion on the matter, I'm not going on and on, or not phrasing it right or something.

Ok chatter away! lol

[emmiedahl]

It's not a choice. God made them that way, and he loves them that way.

[celestial]

You're just talking to confused people is all. I really wouldn't take to heart their opinions on this matter. This might even include the opinions of your gay friend-- just because she's gay, doesn't mean she hasn't been lead to believe that what she feels is wrong.

But yes, I can verify for you from my own personal experience that some people are, in fact, born gay and there is nothing that they or anyone else can do about it. Of course I could choose to marry a man (and be physically nauseated on a daily basis), but why in the world would I want to do that when there are so many wonderful women that I'm attracted to? That's the only choice involved-- choosing to be true to yourself, or choosing not to. I hope for your friend that she eventually sees things in another way. Maybe you can help her by finding a better church. Any church that preaches that homosexuality is wrong is not a church you want to be affiliated with. Not all Christian churches do teach that, by the way. See if there's a United Church of Christ in your area you could check out.

[jjmennonite]

Agreed, it is not a choice. It IS a choice, however, to take certain parts of the bible and emphasize them, and ignore other parts.

There are a lot of verses in Leviticus that are ignored. Too lazy to look it up now, but there has been lots written about this.

Almost everyone has sexual urges, so to put very narrow parameters around what you can do sexually, and impose guilt on everything outside these parameters is a very powerful control tool, used by many religions.

[doggie]

if god did not like gay why did he make over 1500 different animal species that practice homosexuality? I mean there is a bisexual squid for gods sake. They have to believe it is a choice otherwise they would have to think god made a mistake. The bible reflects the ignorance of the times it's as simple as that.

[FJismyheadship]

emmiedahl, thats what I figured. The mean girl said to me "God hates it, and so should everyone else! It's so disgusting!" I didn't know how to handle that... I'm not good at speaking up sometimes, but I wanted to say "I thought God loved everyone, regardless." or something to that effect.

celestial, when my friend told me she was physically nauseated by men, that was the first time I Had ever heard someone say it like that. And if I ever had any doubts before about whether or not it was a choice, that solidified it. If it was a choice, why would that make her, or you, or anyone else sick?

jj you make an excellant point. Maybe I need to look this up for myself and see what I can find on that.

Anyways, thanks for the responces, I appreciate them :)

[doggie]

no one would think having sex with your same gender is cool unless you are gay. But really devout people tend not to understand. you friend is suffering because of the ignorance.

[FJismyheadship]

I just looked that up about the animal species... thats amazing! I never knew that before!

And yeah... I couldn't do it, but then again, I'm straight. However, I see nothing wrong with it, and I don't think its right to judge other people on it... and I would imagine it wouldn't be healthy to supress your feelings.

[doggie]

My question is why are Christians so obsessed with who is having sex with who?

[Effie]

The thing is, as soon as you start telling them that gay isn't a choice, a "natural" follow-up comment from them is: "If so, then neither is pedophilia. However, it's a choice to act on it." :( I know too well after arguing with homophobes on forums on the internet. Ugh. I guess that might be what your friend thinks as well, that it's a choice to act on it.

[jjmennonite]

I found the Leviticus information I was referring to.

Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev.24:10-16)? Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging. Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.

Obviously Dr. Laura and lots of others pick and choose which verses to follow.

[EmmieJ]

For the people out there who believe being gay/lesbian is a choice, I usually point out that I didn't chose to be heterosexual. I just am. I ask them when they chose to be heterosexual, at what specific moment in their lives they actually weighed the pros and cons of being gay versus being hetero and chose hetero? Further, who would chose to be gay, considering what a dangerous and lonesome option that often is, especially if you're living in some small town in the middle of the Bible belt and all around you are people who hate gays and even actively go out looking to "hurt some gays"?

I believe that a parent should have unconditional love for his/her own child. My parents have that for me, and that foundation has been priceless. I feel the same for my own child. I will never stop loving him, no matter what. When still going to church, I recall often that God's love was described as similar to a parent's love for a child, yet even more all-encompassing because it was divine. So if God is divine, and symbolizes the purest and deepest love, then how could God ever turn against a soul based on whether that soul has sexual desire for the opposite sex or the same sex?

[Vex]

I never made a choice. I started having sexual dreams about women when I was 6, long before I knew what a lesbian was or how they had sex. I grew up being attracted to women. It was just the way things were, I accepted it and didn't question it. It was never an issue to me.

I don't think you can ever convince people who truly believe it's a choice otherwise. They have to believe it's a choice or else they have to change some of their comfortable world views. If you accept God made people gay, it might start you questioning what you've been taught,and you might realise that the bible was written by people and thus is prejudiced, because if God made everyone (including Gay people) as they are, how can he possible hate them? I might be wrong, but that's how I feel.

[llv]

Not a choice.

If there's a god, he damn well better love everyone, my gay friends included! :)

If you ask a homo-hating christian why they don't follow the laws of leviticus (eating shrimp, clothes of mixed fibers) they will say "when christ died on the cross it wiped out the old laws". if you tell them there are no good mentions of homo-hate in the new testament they will argue that it's still wrong....

[Crackedeggs]

I have never understood why ( so many) Christians hate sexual sins more than any other. I mean, half the ones that yell the loudest are fat. Gluttony is not just as bad as sexual sin?

I happen to be a somewhat mannish female. However, I am primarily attracted to men. Not that I feel a heck of a lot of attraction sexually to anyone since the hormone factory shut down, lol, but in my hormonal peak, I was attracted to women too. Never acted on it, by the time it was socially acceptable I was in my 30s and married with a kid, and of course I've outlined what hell I went through there.. ( eyeroll) Most of the men I've been involved with were either actually Bi, or somewhat effeminate. (in my ex's case, a pissy, bitchy, heavy metal boy kind of effeminate) I don't attract " Mens men". ... well, one... this very old farmer man around here, and I think it's more desperation on his part and he's wayyyyy too old for me to even think about that way, LOL.

I also have a hard time staying pregnant, suffered from extreme hyperemisis when I did - almost like I was allergic to my own hormones - and had a very early menopause ( 43 ).

Yeah, I don't think it's a choice, I think it's hormonal hard wiring. I also think my hormonal footprint was somewhat left of center, but not as far left as a "real" bisexual or lesbian.

[Constance Vigilance]

People who compare being gay to being a drunk, being a peadophile, etc are just showing their complete lack of understanding about what is important in this world. Being an alcoholic, or a peadophile, harms yourself and other people. My being gay harms no one. Me marrying a woman I love harms no one. A child seeing me and my girlfriend kissing in public harms no one, unless you've taught your child being gay is wrong, or you don't ever want to deal with the fact other people in the world are different from you. That is your problem. It is not mine. If your child is going to be gay, he or she is going to be regardless. If your child is going to be straight, they are going to live in world where about 10% of the population are gay. It takes a lot of time to hate that many people who are doing no harm to you, so maybe you could reconsider giving your child that burden.

Comparing the abuse of a child to a consensual relationship between two adults just shows that you couldn't care less about the child. They are a talking point to you. I bet pretty much every Christian who uses this argument has spent endless energy fighting for the repression of gays, and very little combatting the sexual abuse of children. Sad, but revealing. They don't care about genuine suffering; they care about their petty hates.

People do not choose to be gay. I didn't choose to be gay while living in a repressive community with an abusive family and a strongly Catholic school, all of whom taught the unquestioned assumption that homosexuality was wrong. I tried so hard not to be gay, but it was the one bit of me I couldn't change to fit what people wanted -- in fact it is the ONE bit of me I'm certain is NOT a choice. :) I made it out an it took a lot of years to undo the damage, but now I am able to be who I was all along.

It is lovely to be gay. I adore women. I love being a part of this community. I love the closeness there can be from feeling like we all share this secret. I love knowing that by being openly out, I am hopefully helping others (especially young people) who are making sense of their own feelings, by letting them know they can be happy. And most importantly, I get to look at pictures of Rachel Weisz and feel the way god intended. :D

ETA: In answer to your question, being gay is not wrong. Once you take that into consideration, the question of why people feel attracted to the same sex is pretty simple -- some people just do.

[Rowan]

The thing is, as soon as you start telling them that gay isn't a choice, a "natural" follow-up comment from them is: "If so, then neither is pedophilia. However, it's a choice to act on it." :( I know too well after arguing with homophobes on forums on the internet. Ugh. I guess that might be what your friend thinks as well, that it's a choice to act on it.

A counter to that is same-sex relationships typically involve two consenting adults. By its very definition, pedophilia does not. Pedophilia causes harm to the victim. There are no inherent victims in every same-sex relationship. They are subject to the same issues that opposite-sex ones are, but there is not a victim in every one.

[Rosa]

The Bible doesn't care about consent, though.

I don't know any way to argue with someone who thinks you have to quote Bible verses. We don't have a Bible morality: we think rape is wrong even if you get married afterward; we don't let every stranger in our door for a meal; we have international laws against bashing babies heads against rocks, even during wars; and we don't practice either slavery or regular jubilees of debt forgiveness.

[fundamentalistnomore]

I come from a very strict religious background. I 'tried to be straight'. I always thought that those feelings for men would come & that I was a late bloomer, but they never did. I spent many painful years in the IFB church, trying to conform and put aside my feelings. Although I never been to a church that has one, I've heard of outreach for gays. The problem is that this teaches that being gay is ok, as long as you never act on it. This leaves christian gays with a wonderful lifelong celibacy, loneliness, dateless, masturbationless existence.

If it is your conviction that being gay is wrong, fine. Don't condemn me because of the way I was born.

[Alecto]

Just a note, some folks do change their mind about things. Dr Laura supports civil unions, which is a huge step for her.

[tanksmom]

I agree with the others posters here. Being attracted to someone of the same sex is no more a choice then what color hair or eyes you are born with. Yes, you can deny your feelings, you can dye your hair or you can wear special contacts to change your eyes but underneath it all you are still the same person that you were born as. Just because you are gay or bi does not make you a monster that should be condemned.

[Constance Vigilance]

I come from a very strict religious background. I 'tried to be straight'. I always thought that those feelings for men would come & that I was a late bloomer, but they never did. I spent many painful years in the IFB church, trying to conform and put aside my feelings. Although I never been to a church that has one, I've heard of outreach for gays. The problem is that this teaches that being gay is ok, as long as you never act on it. This leaves christian gays with a wonderful lifelong celibacy, loneliness, dateless, masturbationless existence.

If it is your conviction that being gay is wrong, fine. Don't condemn me because of the way I was born.

If you are still Christian, I know that there are many churches (at least here in the UK) that teach that being gay is totally fine and just as compatible with living a Christian life as being straight (sex and all, but subject to the same 'rules' as stright people). I don't know enough about doctrines, denominations etc to suggest ones for you but please keep searching, you will find a church that accepts you as you are :)

If you are not a Christian anymore, disregard and keep on keeping on.

Edited for clarification, and fuck the haters.

[fundifugee]

Basically this issue is what made me call bullshit on the entire church thing.

My best friend for 25 years now is gay. When he finally told me, after being tormented for years in high school for being different, I was pretty unfazed, because it was incredibly obvious. However I still went to church, in the deep south, and there was little beyond disgust and hatred for LBGT folks in all of the churches I checked out. Even the 'love the sinner, hate the sin' folks had their trademark Southern nice sugar coating over what would then turn out to be trademark Southern hatred.

That made me notice the other folks that the church chose to make unwelcome. Sunday morning, the most segregated time in the American South, probably in the whole US. Churches were either white or black, not both. Then I noticed that even I was one of the folks who was less than acceptable there.....women weren't allowed to preach, minister, or lead. So one Sunday AM when I was 19, I stood up and walked out.

There just ain't no way that the only person who stood with me through the torment that was high school, and through the shit I endured from my family, and was the only reason that I did not kill myself in the worst days, was condemned to hell for the way he was born. I'm pretty sure it's the opposite, he's an angel who helped me survive and see the beauty in life in spite of the crap.

[Rosa]

I come from a very strict religious background. I 'tried to be straight'. I always thought that those feelings for men would come & that I was a late bloomer, but they never did. I spent many painful years in the IFB church, trying to conform and put aside my feelings. Although I never been to a church that has one, I've heard of outreach for gays. The problem is that this teaches that being gay is ok, as long as you never act on it. This leaves christian gays with a wonderful lifelong celibacy, loneliness, dateless, masturbationless existence.

If it is your conviction that being gay is wrong, fine. Don't condemn me because of the way I was born.

Fundamentalist no more, were you only looking at Baptist churches? I'm not a Christian but my neighborhood is full of churches on a spectrum from "welcoming but not in a welcoming denomination" to "we're the church for gay Christians!" As far as I know, none of them are celibacy-only types, they all do same-sex weddings and have gay clergy and stuff. There's a UMC and an ELCA church with big rainbows on the front (the UMC one at least does same-sex weddings and the choir leaders are also active in the local Gay Men's Choir - it's the church we go to sometimes) and a Metropolitan Community Church and a little indie church that split of from it because they wanted to be more Bible-based.

One of my friends from high school calls the MCC "grownup singles group" for gay men, but he's not religious. I assume other people actually go for the spirituality. (Not me. I'm not a Christian and I don't like hugs.)

[fundamentalistnomore]

Constance Vigilance, thanks! I'm atheist though. :P

Rosa, I only looked at Baptist. I've been to a several other denominations, but not really into all the emotionalism of the places I visited. That being said, being gay actually wasn't the reason I quit going. It's too complicated to go into here. I haven't blogged in a while, but I explain a little more there. Link below, however, I am atheist, and it may not sit well with folks who are christian. It is offensive to all & a 1st grader has better artistic skills. Should be read with one eye open & one ear closed. :lol: :lol: :lol:

fundamentalistnomore.blogspot.com/2010/05/no-funny-just-talk.html

fundamentalistnomore.blogspot.com/2010/04/in-fundie-world-there-are-two-school-of.html