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Can I rant about the judgemental fundie Catholics?


CanticleoftheTurning

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So, this is just a rant.

The lolFB thread reminded me about all the time my fundie Catholic friends have attacked me for not being "Catholic" enough. Most of them were homeschoolers. The worst of the lot works for the Koch brothers. (Which I pronounce as C**k brothers. I thought that was the pronunciation until I found out it's pronounced "Coke," but I like my pronunciation better.)

I just want to defriend them all on FB! Seriously, I'm a big-time Catholic as any other person, as (protestant) DH always points out. I simply can't put up with the sh*t from Protestant denominations. I like the idea of a pope to tell people to STFU on theological discussions.

But I am a moderate, politically. I can't stand the Republican party anymore, and the Dems are all asses. I'm liberal on some subjects, and conservative on others, but I don't want to impose my shit on others. I've grown quite a bit from my fundie-Catholic stage when I went no-communication with my abusive family. But I still have these fundie/fundie-lite friends whom I homeschooled with, or went to college with, who keep implying I'm not "Catholic" enough.

I don't dare tell them that I'm using birth control pills/condoms for medical reasons (which will soon go down to only the birth control implant only, still for medical reasons), because then they'll tell me I'm a baby-killer. As seen in the debate I had with the fundie-lite catholic friend who said that condoms are abortion, which in her view, is murder.

I especially don't dare because this one acquaintance really chewed me out when I pointed out the flaws in certain kinds of NFP. (Some are more effective than others, depending on the techniques used. And one seemed to be semi-predictive, which does NOT work with my cycles, I've tried! My fertility and hormones are incredibly screwed up that it's actually physically affects me, hence the hormones.)

I don't dare tell them that we need to keep religion out of the laws, because trying to impose our own religious beliefs on others re: gay marriage is incredibly asinine, because then they'll imply I'm going to hell over that.

And I am incredibly sick of when people get on my case about politics. Catholicism does not prescribe a certain political view. Just because I don't vote Republican doesn't mean I'm an evil babykiller. And they like to tie up economics into religion. Seriously, why do these ostensibly pro-life people act so careless about the needs of those already alive? They presume that because I think we need to support those who are alive means that I'm an evil Democrat, and that therefore means I like abortion. :roll:

I'm just ranting here, trying to decide whether I should just defriend these fundie friends on Facebook or not. We rarely have anything in common anymore, and while I appreciate a wide variety of views (I have conservative to flaming liberal friends), I do NOT appreciate it when people call into question my faith.

What have others done?

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Ugh. That sounds incredibly annoying and frustrating. I usually avoid religion and politics with my fundy connections for the same reasons. Can't stand the idea of someone walking up to me with that obnoxiously pious 'concerned' look and handing me some batshit pamphlet. It just makes me want to tell those people to shut the fuck up about their weird conspiracies and leave me alone.

At this point I just refuse to engage in controversy with fundies. If they get going I just nod, say ambiguous things, and try to deflect. I used to try to defend myself. Eventually I realized that I was treating all of the crazies like they were some sort of personal or religious authority to whom I had to justify myself. But they're not. They're just crazies, and I don't have to explain anything to any of them if I don't want to. No matter how piously concerned they look.

Edited for a Riffle.

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Seriously, why do these ostensibly pro-life people act so careless about the needs of those already alive? They presume that because I think we need to support those who are alive means that I'm an evil Democrat, and that therefore means I like abortion

This irritates me to no end. I don't necessarily let my faith inform my voting (I was raised by a very secular Catholic father who has since lapsed out of the Church, and he never got around to a lot of background stuff - I'm pretty lapsed myself) BUT the Church supports a "culture of life" which encompasses more than just "abortion is murder", and having it reduced to that one point irritates the fuck out of me. Especially when it's being espoused by a big fan of the death penalty...

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You know, I think the whole "no birth control" thing that the Catholics did is not really based on the bible.

I think they simply actually want more numbers, more Catholic children.

I would not be too worried, in my heart, about using proper birth control.

As it may boil down to more of an economic reason behind that mandate.

But being a Democrat?

You'll burn for that for sure. Just kidding.

But I must chastise you.

Does it not say, on the Democratic platform, "we are pro-choice"?

Now I know you do not support that.

Maybe you are an independent.

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I used to try to defend myself. Eventually I realized that I was treating all of the crazies like they were some sort of personal or religious authority to whom I had to justify myself. But they're not. They're just crazies, and I don't have to explain anything to any of them if I don't want to. No matter how piously concerned they look.

Good point--because they clearly aren't any sort of authority on our shared denomination--that's what we have the pope for!

Perhaps I should create some sort of Facebook group of friends and call it "fundies" and then on certain posts, I make it so that these fundies can't see it. I don't like to mess around with the settings too much, but I probably really should at this point.

They're not as bad as my brother was, though. He thought for sure my relationship with protestant DH would not work out, and didn't want to be FB friends with him.

Anyway, thanks FJ for letting me rant .

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This irritates me to no end. I don't necessarily let my faith inform my voting (I was raised by a very secular Catholic father who has since lapsed out of the Church, and he never got around to a lot of background stuff - I'm pretty lapsed myself) BUT the Church supports a "culture of life" which encompasses more than just "abortion is murder", and having it reduced to that one point irritates the fuck out of me. Especially when it's being espoused by a big fan of the death penalty...

Exactly! I don't understand how people can be "pro-life" and still support the death penalty. And yes, there's FAR more to being pro-life than being pro-baby. My atheist friends (one calls himself a "gaytheist" lol) understand what it means to be pro-life far better than my fundie Catholic friends do. The Church often talks about needing to support our poor brothers and sisters, and encouraging us to make sure we remember them when we decide how to vote. But the way some of these people act as if once you're born, you're on your own and need to "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps." Not sure how that supports a 'culture of life.'

I'm still Catholic somehow, but there have been times when I think, "If these people are what Catholics are supposed to be like, then I don't want to be part of it anymore!"

Thankfully my parish actually does support a "culture of life," and they talk a lot about caring for those who are already born as well as those who are unborn. In fact, they talk more about homelessness and people struggling to eat than they do about abortion. It's my parish that helps me stay Catholic more so than the fundie friends.

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I'm a former Catholic, for sooo many reasons, one being the pope making all the decisions as G-d's "appointed" on earth. Sorry, G-d does not have any appointed on earth.

Your friends sound a little slow, or maybe just so passionate that they completely overlook reason and fact. It's impossible for condoms to = murder. Are they not aware that sperm (the reproductive spew that condoms stop) only contain half of what is needed to make life? Without sperm getting to their target egg, life cannot exist, but is merely a mix of random dna material in the shape of a fish :) AND, that's if you consider life to have begun at conception (which I don't).

Tell them that if they're going to argue, at the very least, they can present a logical argument. Otherwise you're just wasting your precious time.

Fundies suck! End. of. story!

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I don't understand how people can be "pro-life" and still support the death penalty. And yes, there's FAR more to being pro-life than being pro-baby.

To be fair, the Catholic Church is anti-death penalty and anti-war.

If you wanted to vote "Catholic", you would need to make a list of the things that are important to you and side with the party that is pro-life *for all people, including those already born*. There is a reason that most Catholic politicians are Democrats.

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I'm a former Catholic, for sooo many reasons, one being the pope making all the decisions as G-d's "appointed" on earth.

Ha, the Pope is one of the main reasons why I'm still Catholic :lol: But yes, EXACTLY, regarding condoms. It is not murder to prevent sperm from fertilizing an egg. If it were, then I would start wondering if it would be murder to swat a fly, or use anti-viral cleaners in the bathroom and kitchen...okay, maybe I'm exaggerating.

Why is "Every sperm is sacred" running through my head on a loop, now?

To be fair, the Catholic Church is anti-death penalty and anti-war.

If you wanted to vote "Catholic", you would need to make a list of the things that are important to you and side with the party that is pro-life *for all people, including those already born*. There is a reason that most Catholic politicians are Democrats.

Yep, much to the chagrin of all the super conservative Catholics who are Republicans. It's the world's greatest mind-fuck about the huge discordance between these fundie Catholics and the devout Catholics who vote Democratic.

I used to identify as a Republican--sadly, I was a fundie-lite about it. I still can't quite appreciate the Democratic politicians and party line because so many of them are asses. I also distrust them because on numerous occasions they use propaganda and twist facts to support their particular pro-choice stance, the same way I can't stand the fundies and their propaganda they use to support pro-life agendas.

Sometimes I wish there was a "moderate" party for those who have moderate opinions, even if it differs from other moderates' opinions.

It would be kind of like the UU of political parties, maybe.

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I would de-friend in a skinny minute and then get on with my life. The attitudes you cite are *precisely* why I did not convert to Catholicism, even after going through all manner of pre-Cana rigamarole and then marrying my (now-lapsed) Catholic husband in a Catholic church.

I find conservative Catholics (can't bring myself to call them fundy--to me Catholicism is not the slightest bit fundy) more repugnant than fundies, and that's sayin' something. There is a smugness that goes along with quoting the Holy Father's statement on this or that subject--as if that would mean a hill of beans to anyone who isn't Catholic. And many of them are just as certain as fundies that you, you non-Catholic, you, are going to hell for being out of compliance with some of their nonbiblical rules and regs.

Lest it be said that I would throw the baby out with the bathwater, I do appreciate the Catholic social programs that don't require religious conversion or training for the recipients of the charity. But I should just mention that when DH and I were looking to adopt a baby and went to Catholic Charities, the first question was whether we were both Catholic. When I was not, they politely suggested we look elsewhere. That is their right, of course; and I know Catholic Charities isn't bursting at the seams with adoptable babies. But it completely sealed the deal for me: when we did adopt a child, through a private attorney, there was a 0% chance that I would go through conversion and that we would have the baby baptized in the Catholic Church.

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I would defriend any person who chose to criticize me and my choices in life, especially on very sensitive and personal topics such as freedom of choice, birth control, religion, etc. It's nobody's business but my own.

I was raised Catholic, but with one Catholic parent and one non-Catholic parent who agreed (in order to marry in the Catholic Church) that all children would be raised Catholic. However, my dad (the Catholic parent) wasn't fanatical about it - he just believed that children should be raised with some religion and then left to decide once they turned 18. He and my mom both are extremely private and would never dream of telling other people how to live their own lives.

I remember dating a man briefly in my 20's. One day he called while I was at church. When we next spoke, he asked what church I attended and I gave him the name of my Catholic church. To which he said, "I could tell you so many terrible things about the Catholics!" I told him I wasn't interested in hearing it, and that pretty much ended the dating relationship.

I've learned to tune out people who want to run my life for me. I've been in charge of my decisions since I turned 18 and I don't some sanctimonious know-it-all butting in now. Don't blame you for venting, but if some "friends" are making you extremely stressed out, maybe they aren't the friends you need at this point in your life, kwim?

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The last time I was in a Catholic church for anything but a funeral or a baptism, the priest gave a pro-war sermon. On Christmas Eve. I like to think that even if I *were* Catholic that would have been the last straw for me.

Those holier-than-thou Catholics are just as cafeteria-style as anybody else, starting with their attitude not being at ALL "Love thy neighbor". You're a better person than they are and if they are pushing you toward your worse self, at the very least hide them.

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I'm basically the "non-Catholic parent who has agreed to raise her kids Catholic" that Emmie wrote about above. Choosing to do so is because of how much it would mean to my in-laws (whom I adore) and being Catholic means more to my husband and his family than being Protestant meant to me. (I was raised Prespyterian, am pretty liberal with some conservative tendencies. My Catholic husband is way more liberal than he would ever admit, even to himself.) All I care about is having a church community I like and enjoy, and maybe a neat youth group for my kids, if they want to be involved in that. I'll let my children be raised Catholic, but be sure I will be talking to them after every mass about my thoughts!

That being said, it really PISSES ME OFF when part of the sermon talks about protesting Planned Parenthood. :naughty:

1 - If you are getting government funding because you're a church, you're NOT supposed to be preaching about political issues.

2 - Why don't they understand that PP does SO MUCH MORE than abortions! My husband always knows he's going to get an earfull in the car ride home when PP is mentioned in church. Back when I was a young 20-something and had the cheapest insurance I could afford, PP was the only way I could receive any "female" healthcare like annual exams, birth control, and GASP the morning-after pill (before it was over the counter.) (Which is NOT the abortion pill, as Michele Bitchmann would have you believe.)

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I used to identify as a Republican--sadly, I was a fundie-lite about it. I still can't quite appreciate the Democratic politicians and party line because so many of them are asses. I also distrust them because on numerous occasions they use propaganda and twist facts to support their particular pro-choice stance, the same way I can't stand the fundies and their propaganda they use to support pro-life agendas.

I know what you are saying here. I am not judging, but I would like to share why, as a former moderate, I will be voting exclusively Democrat until something major changes.

1. The Democrat politicians are wealthy assholes who are self-serving and hypocritical. I have seen propaganda-like statements used by the party. The Republicans do the same thing and are the same way, but it does rub me the wrong way when a party that claims to be liberal and pro-social justice makes thinly veiled attempts at thought control. I have had to come to a place where I acknowledge that both sides are dishonest and manipulative--that they are all politicians playing a game.

2. Historically, Democrats are no more irresponsible with money than Republicans. This is a common misconception.

3. Because both sides are dishonest hypocrites frittering away money, I have to vote based on self-interest rather than character. The Republicans want to do things that risk my life. They want me to be forced to carry a pregnancy that threatens my life; they want less gun control; they want to act antagonistically toward countries that have a high likelihood of retaliating.

Just based upon those factors, I am going to be a reluctant Democrat voter. Not because they will solve problems, but because they will avoid creating more of them for me.

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So, this is just a rant.

What have others done?

Come to Call to Action! :D Where, PS, we sang "Canticle of the Turning" at the closing liturgy, and I immediately thought of FJ.

www.cta-usa.org

It's one of the few spaces where I can be Catholic and not want to punch things.

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I would de-friend in a skinny minute and then get on with my life. The attitudes you cite are *precisely* why I did not convert to Catholicism, even after going through all manner of pre-Cana rigamarole and then marrying my (now-lapsed) Catholic husband in a Catholic church.

My husband is most definitely not converting, either--it's not for him. Catholicism isn't for everyone, just as Protestantism isn't for me (and neither conservative Catholicism). It just drives me up a wall. It was the judgemental nature of them that kept me from wanting to do the Catholic homeschool graduation. I opted for the Protestant/nondenominational graduation. Fortunately in my new city most of the conservative Catholics all attend certain parishes, so the rest of us are more moderate.

Don't blame you for venting, but if some "friends" are making you extremely stressed out, maybe they aren't the friends you need at this point in your life, kwim?

I'm hovering over the "defriend" button, thinking about it. I like being open to a wide variety of viewpoints, but if they're going to be so narrowminded and attack my particular flavor of belief instead of having an honest-to-goodness conversation, then yes. Time to defriend them.

The last time I was in a Catholic church for anything but a funeral or a baptism, the priest gave a pro-war sermon. On Christmas Eve. I like to think that even if I *were* Catholic that would have been the last straw for me.

Those holier-than-thou Catholics are just as cafeteria-style as anybody else, starting with their attitude not being at ALL "Love thy neighbor". You're a better person than they are and if they are pushing you toward your worse self, at the very least hide them.

Whoa, where' the pro-war thing come from...and on Christmas Eve? I would certainly have skipped on over to another parish! I've left a parish for lesser things--this one priest was being too focused on hitting us up for money that I was actually dreading going to church. So I went somewhere else.

JellyHope--lol, love Michelle Bitchmann. I'm going to steal that. I'm not too fond of Planned Parenthood, especially around these parts, where even the pro-choice people decry how awful their service and treatment of women are. But they ARE a good place to go for cheap gynecology services (if they give good service, that is). I've been there and done that myself, except I went to a different non-profit women's health organization that was absolutely wonderful, and they tell you, "pay what you can afford." One of these days I'm going to donate money to cover the rest of my bill from last year, when I was without insurance. They don't do abortions though they do refer people. They do prescribe and administer various forms of birth control, though, and gave away free condoms in the waiting room.

Just based upon those factors, I am going to be a reluctant Democrat voter. Not because they will solve problems, but because they will avoid creating more of them for me.

Same here. My philosophy is "vote for the lesser evil," and that has involved voting for Democrats. In the 2008 elections, the first one where I could vote, I abstained. I wasn't ready to vote Dem, but I couldn't conscionably vote Republican. My mom implied that I was a bad Catholic and implied I needed to go to Confession because I didn't vote against Obama. Because, of course, in her mind not voting against him was just as good as killing a baby. :roll:

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Come to Call to Action! :D Where, PS, we sang "Canticle of the Turning" at the closing liturgy, and I immediately thought of FJ.

http://www.cta-usa.org

It's one of the few spaces where I can be Catholic and not want to punch things.

Sorry, still a little too liberal for me! ;) I guess I would describe myself a traditionalist as far as Mass goes, but a political moderate (leaning toward liberal). I might describe myself superficially as a Jesuit liberal--big on social concerns. (Though the Franciscans who run the parish I'm at are quite big on social concerns as well. So, it's probably a bad descriptor... :? )

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I am going to be a reluctant Democrat voter. Not because they will solve problems, but because they will avoid creating more of them for me.

This is why I vote Democrat as well. Thank you for putting it so well.

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I'm more of a conservative catholic no birth control, daily rosary, etc. I just never understood where on God's earth it was my job to tell others they are doing it wrong and need to be more in line with abc and xyz. I'm a convert from Lutheran (baptized not raised though) and a reason I liked Catholicism is because I never saw them out trying to get others to convert or looking for members to increase numbers.

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Come to Call to Action! :D Where, PS, we sang "Canticle of the Turning" at the closing liturgy, and I immediately thought of FJ.

http://www.cta-usa.org

It's one of the few spaces where I can be Catholic and not want to punch things.

I was lucky enough to have a Dignity branch near me for a bit. It was a lot of fun AND I got to feel all cool and secret agent-y.

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To be fair, it was December of either 2001 or 2002, right as the current Iraq War was gearing up, and it started as a prayer for soldiers overseas. But it spiraled out of control very, very quickly.

As a former Christian, one of the few church things I like is the music, candles & Scripture at a late night Christmas service, and this priest made it worse by talking at ALL in my opinion. But the topicality was just Not Right.

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When I was a kid being brought to Mass we once had an amazing elderly visiting priest who gave an entire sermon about the evils of "the pornography. Oh yes, you know, those top shelf magazines. You know the ones" with kids sitting right there. The congregation spent the whole time cringing lower and lower in our seats.

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We used to have an old (like in his late 80's-early 90's) priest, who preached the worst sermons. He tried to hit on all the worst sins in one sermon: women priests, abortion, birth control, homosexuality, eating meat on Friday and New Age spirituality. LOL He would preach forever! You never saw so many glazed eyes in one congregation. And everything in the sermon was random, there would be no connection between one sentence and the next, sometimes no connection between things in the same sentence.

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I must be going to the wrong Catholic churches (or rather, the right ones?). The most political homily that I heard was in regard to illegal immigration, and it referred to the government's methods as Machiavellian. Of course in my area, the bishop is Latino and so are at least half of the butts on the pew.

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Oh and for the fundie Catholics, you can always show them this article.

http://www.businessinsider.com/catholic ... ry-2011-10

Here's How The Catholic Church Is Profiting In The German Erotic Novel Industry

One of Germany's largest publishing companies, Weltbild, has over 2,500 erotic novels in its online catalogue. Its owned 100 percent by the German Catholic Church.

Worldcrunch, summarizing an article by German newspaper Die Welt, says that for over 10 years Catholics have complained about the company, which has been owned by the church for over 30 years. The high point of this opposition came in 2008, when a 70-page report on the book sales was sent to bishops.

Die Welt reports that the situation came to light after a report this month mentioned the erotica distributed by Weltbild. The publication also said that over half of the bishops who were sent the report in 2008 failed to acknowledge receipt of the document.

Weltbild has an annual turnover of €1.7 billion ($2.4 billion) and has a 20 percent market share when it comes to selling books. That makes it the second largest online retailer of books behind Amazon.

The church also owns a 50 percent stake in publishing company Droemer Knaur, which also produces pornographic books.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/catholic ... z1d41LhOLR

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