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Can I rant about the judgemental fundie Catholics?


CanticleoftheTurning

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I must be going to the wrong Catholic churches (or rather, the right ones?). The most political homily that I heard was in regard to illegal immigration, and it referred to the government's methods as Machiavellian. Of course in my area, the bishop is Latino and so are at least half of the butts on the pew.

Ditto. I've been really fortunate that nearly every parish I go to is decent. It was only the one priest who drove me nuts with his constant ragging on us about now giving enough to the church in tithes. Lately, the only political homilies I've heard were about immigration, the need to take care of immigrants and treat the illegal immigrants with dignity. My parish is the main one in town that started and maintains a regular presence at the deportation center. When a Franciscan priest started praying while the deportation officers forced the immigrants into a bus, the officers started treating the people better. Now there's all manner of people from all faiths and denominations maintaining a presence for the weekly deportations.

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I am fairly conservative Catholic. Kids go to Catholic school. I go to church every Sunday and Holy Days. Also if I have a day off during the week. COnfession and the Rosary, too. I don't share that stuff at work. I am pretty quiet about my religion. Most of my Social Circle is Catholic - always been that way.

I have to say, I love listening to our Parish Priest. He does a great sermon. I've even had friends from other Parishes come to listen to him. It helps that he grew up in the area that I live in. He's fairly young for a priest and he seems to relate well to the 30 and 40-somethings.

Plus, he's kind to my kiddos. I am divorced and their Dad isn't involved. Our priest always makes it a point to make my kids feel special. I appreciate that a lot.

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Plus, he's kind to my kiddos. I am divorced and their Dad isn't involved. Our priest always makes it a point to make my kids feel special. I appreciate that a lot.

Awww, that is really nice--I love it when priests take the time to get to know the people.

It seems from the responses on here that those who are upset with the Catholic Church seems to have hit a bad run of priests/parishes, and those who are more amenable to it have been exposed to better priests/parishes. I know this is probably an oversimplification, but honestly, if I did keep having a bad time of it at parishes or had a whole bunch of bad priests, then I probably would be a church-less Christian. I just can't put up with bullshit. Thankfully most parishes I've been too don't have much in the way of bullshit, and if they do, I don't go back.

And I know that there are plenty of troubled dioceses, so certain areas are more likely to have bad parishes than other areas (I've heard Rochester is having a rough time of it). It's just a matter of finding the right parish...if people want to be Catholic. Otherwise, there are plenty of denominations out there.

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We used to have an old (like in his late 80's-early 90's) priest, who preached the worst sermons. He tried to hit on all the worst sins in one sermon: women priests, abortion, birth control, homosexuality, eating meat on Friday and New Age spirituality. LOL He would preach forever! You never saw so many glazed eyes in one congregation. And everything in the sermon was random, there would be no connection between one sentence and the next, sometimes no connection between things in the same sentence.

Ha

My mother had a ready made weapon. We sat in the second pew, in front of the lectern.

When [the one Fr. in particular I'm thinking of] preached incoherence for a period of time deemed "too long" (how long is a piece of string?) my dear mother (a real pillar of the church community) would pinch whatever babe was in arms (there were 7 of us, she was armed for about 14 years), enough for baby cry. LOUDLY. She would then make to sush the child (while doing absolutely nothing of the sort, likely encouraging crying).

Worked Every Single Time.

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Exactly! I don't understand how people can be "pro-life" and still support the death penalty. And yes, there's FAR more to being pro-life than being pro-baby .

The Church is opposed to the death penalty.

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Yes, and the holier-than-thou conservative Catholics often go ahead and support it. They don't care.

The Catholic churches around where we live seem nice - we go to fish dinners at one during Lent where everyone is very nice and there's environmentalist stuff up on the walls and stuff. But the Catholic relatives are all outer-suburban-living Republicans so the church I used to get dragged to was that way.

They are just as variable as any other denomination.

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With respect Canticle, my problem with the Catholic church is not about priests or dioceses. It's about covering up the sexual, emotional and physical abuse of thousands of children worldwide (my parents could tell you stories about the Christian Brothers and convent schools that would make your hair stand up), the many terrible things that happened in Ireland when the church was the state, and the clear and consistent message from the Vatican that women aren't worth a damn thng in the sight of god.

I was already long gone, but if I hadn't been this would have been the last straw: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 98,00.html

It's the 9-year-old grl in Brazil who was raped by her stepfather, impregnating her with twins she was too small to carry to term. Her mother got her an abortion to save her life and the Catholic Church excommunicated the mother and the doctors who performed the abortion to save her, but not the stepfather who raped her.

So I'm afraid it is really not about which priests or which diocese I've experienced, and I think that's worth mentioning.

Very valid point--I had forgotten about it (and one of the priests did a homily on that a couple of weeks ago, even. Big fail on my part). The coverup on part of the bishops was reprehensible, and I am SO glad we're finally dealing with it now, though it is far too late. I've always wondered whether the big spate of child molestation had to do with the upheaval surrounding Vatican II, judging from the time range when the bulk of it happened. I don't know why that would be, because it makes no sense. What about that era would encourage child molestation? Also, maybe the bishops felt the need to shuffle priests around just because they don't want to have to deal with a shortage of priest coverage in their dioceses? I don't know.

My husband was reading about the statistics a while back--I don't remember where he saw it. I'd need to ask him where he saw that. Anyway, as many pedo priests there were, the percentage of them compared to other priests was far smaller than the number of pedo teachers. There's also a great deal of pedo pastors in other denominations--though I forget what the percentage was. Overall, though, the percentage of pedo priests was far smaller than the percentage in the general population.

So, while I understand that the pedophile scandal and the resulting ineptness in handling it is a huge reason why many Catholics left, or why people decide not to join, i find it interesting that it's a huge reason in the first place, when the percentage at the height of the scandal was far less than the percentage of the general population.

It reminds me of one of the reasons my dad keeps talking about how awful schools are, and why homeschooling (in his view) is the only sane option for people to take. He does not want my siblings to go to school because of the pedo teachers. He lost faith in the public school system because of the whole pedo teacher scandals. Yet many people still choose to take their kids to public or private schools anyway.

So, I find a lot of similarity between those who have lost faith in the Catholic church and those who have lost faith in the public education system. Those who still stay Catholic and those who still take their kids to schools recognize that the world is an evil, evil place and just try to teach their kids to be safe and make good decisions, and keep open channels of communications with their kids. What does everyone think about it--similar, or not so similar?

(I know that I probably rambled too much..apologies in advance. I feel slightly "off" after getting over a migraine, and my train of thought is kind of disjointed, and I'm just thinking aloud. Gah. Migraines make me write like I'm drunk. )

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Just based upon those factors, I am going to be a reluctant Democrat voter. Not because they will solve problems, but because they will avoid creating more of them for me.

I am an Independent but when it comes to voting for the president I too am a reluctant Democrat.

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Edited because I am not in the mood for srs bns tonight :)

Do you want me to delete my response? My brain is obviously not functioning for srs bns tonight anyway! You still did bring up a really valid point, though.

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The Church is opposed to the death penalty.

Yep. For which I'm thankful. It just feels like my fundie Catholic friends forget all these other pro-life positions, and focus solely on the unborn, which aggravates me. They vote like it's the ONLY thing worth considering when voting, instead of balancing all the issues. And attack me when I don't vote the same way they do.

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OP, I (kind of) feel your pain. A good friend of mine is like yours, though thankfully less aggressive about it. Still, I know what she believes and it's not pretty and I feel stuck between wanting to continue our friendship and being like "WTF? Can. Not. Relate." I'm very torn actually :-(

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Yep. For which I'm thankful. It just feels like my fundie Catholic friends forget all these other pro-life positions, and focus solely on the unborn, which aggravates me. They vote like it's the ONLY thing worth considering when voting, instead of balancing all the issues. And attack me when I don't vote the same way they do.

It is a critical issue.

You have "ratcheted down" its importance in order to allow you to hold your nose and vote democratic.

What if God has not ratcheted down its importance?

What if God does not change?

What if your values have become eroded, as per the bible?

You complimented the other nice Catholic, who goes to mass and such. I would bet she is not pro-choice. In order to be a good Catholic, you would have to be pro-life.

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Yep. For which I'm thankful. It just feels like my fundie Catholic friends forget all these other pro-life positions, and focus solely on the unborn, which aggravates me. They vote like it's the ONLY thing worth considering when voting, instead of balancing all the issues. And attack me when I don't vote the same way they do.

I know, I'm in the same boat with some on-line friends. My parish is liberal, it's primarily an immigrant community, Mass is in Spanish. Social justice is an important part of what we do. More than half of our members are undocumented. Our policy s don't ask, don't tell. The community is really there for people when they need help.

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FYI: Churches can not advocate for a politician or a political party. They can advocate for stands on issues. (which makes sense.)

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FYI: Churches can not advocate for a politician or a political party. They can advocate for stands on issues. (which makes sense.)

yeah, but that doesn't happen! how many churches advocated openly for gwb? i can think of dozens off hand.

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FYI: Churches can not advocate for a politician or a political party. They can advocate for stands on issues. (which makes sense.)

Actually - Churches cannot claim tax exempt status and campaign. If they don't want the tax status, they can say anything they want.

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Canticle,

I'm Catholic and I've never even met a fundie Catholic. I grew up in a liberal parish, we all went to public school. I didn't even know Catholics homeschooled until a few years ago. I've loved learning about Protestants and other Christian churches since I was a kid, but my spiritual home will always be the Catholic Church. As far as your FB "friends" I say drop 'em. What are you gaining by keeping them as FB friends? Is this "friendship" enriching your life in any way? These people are causing you stress. If they are causing you stress they aren't true friends, just people you know or used to know. True friends don't jump down your throat if you have differing views or try to make you feel bad about yourself or "lesser than." FB should be fun.

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FYI: Churches can not advocate for a politician or a political party. They can advocate for stands on issues. (which makes sense.)

Ah, that does make sense. I'll get off my soapbox on car rides home (sometimes.)

- About Planned Parenthood, I was an insurance-less 22 (college grad/struggling actress in LA) year old who only knew about PP for cheap annual exams. I always felt like I was treated pretty well.

- I do really admire the Catholic Church for not trying to throw themselves down anyone's throat.

- I admire Catholics for their denomination's tradition, community, and faith.

- As of now, however, I'm not making any plans to convert, as I still have my panties in a wad over a few issues... (abortion, how I felt I was treated during my engagement, etc.)

All that said, we had a beautiful & special baptism service for my daughter this summer, and my MIL beamed brighter than the Star of David!

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Yep. For which I'm thankful. It just feels like my fundie Catholic friends forget all these other pro-life positions, and focus solely on the unborn, which aggravates me. They vote like it's the ONLY thing worth considering when voting, instead of balancing all the issues. And attack me when I don't vote the same way they do.

I always find it ironic that those who would call me a "cafeteria Catholic" because I use birth control, love my LGBT friends and family, and support women's ordination are just as selective in their beliefs when it comes to the death penalty, war, exploitative economic practices. I mean, I'm (obviously) down with the role of conscience in our tradition, I just wish people on the opposite end of the political/theological spectrum from me would OWN it.

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Canticle,

I'm Catholic and I've never even met a fundie Catholic. I grew up in a liberal parish, we all went to public school. I didn't even know Catholics homeschooled until a few years ago. I've loved learning about Protestants and other Christian churches since I was a kid, but my spiritual home will always be the Catholic Church. As far as your FB "friends" I say drop 'em. What are you gaining by keeping them as FB friends? Is this "friendship" enriching your life in any way? These people are causing you stress. If they are causing you stress they aren't true friends, just people you know or used to know. True friends don't jump down your throat if you have differing views or try to make you feel bad about yourself or "lesser than." FB should be fun.

Thanks all for your feedback on these fundie Catholics "friends." I managed to get up the courage to defriend one (the Koch-sucker), put another on restricted profile setting (they can see my info and old stuff, but none of the new posts). I'm planning on defriending one more and then putting another on the restricted profile setting.

Then FB will be hopefully be less of a landmine situation! I'm so glad I'm not alone in feeling aggravated about the fundies (well, on FJ, who would be supportive of fundies? :lol: )

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So, this is just a rant.

The lolFB thread reminded me about all the time my fundie Catholic friends have attacked me for not being "Catholic" enough. Most of them were homeschoolers. The worst of the lot works for the Koch brothers. (Which I pronounce as C**k brothers. I thought that was the pronunciation until I found out it's pronounced "Coke," but I like my pronunciation better.)

I just want to defriend them all on FB! Seriously, I'm a big-time Catholic as any other person, as (protestant) DH always points out. I simply can't put up with the sh*t from Protestant denominations. I like the idea of a pope to tell people to STFU on theological discussions.

But I am a moderate, politically. I can't stand the Republican party anymore, and the Dems are all asses. I'm liberal on some subjects, and conservative on others, but I don't want to impose my shit on others. I've grown quite a bit from my fundie-Catholic stage when I went no-communication with my abusive family. But I still have these fundie/fundie-lite friends whom I homeschooled with, or went to college with, who keep implying I'm not "Catholic" enough.

I don't dare tell them that I'm using birth control pills/condoms for medical reasons (which will soon go down to only the birth control implant only, still for medical reasons), because then they'll tell me I'm a baby-killer. As seen in the debate I had with the fundie-lite catholic friend who said that condoms are abortion, which in her view, is murder.

I especially don't dare because this one acquaintance really chewed me out when I pointed out the flaws in certain kinds of NFP. (Some are more effective than others, depending on the techniques used. And one seemed to be semi-predictive, which does NOT work with my cycles, I've tried! My fertility and hormones are incredibly screwed up that it's actually physically affects me, hence the hormones.)

I don't dare tell them that we need to keep religion out of the laws, because trying to impose our own religious beliefs on others re: gay marriage is incredibly asinine, because then they'll imply I'm going to hell over that.

And I am incredibly sick of when people get on my case about politics. Catholicism does not prescribe a certain political view. Just because I don't vote Republican doesn't mean I'm an evil babykiller. And they like to tie up economics into religion. Seriously, why do these ostensibly pro-life people act so careless about the needs of those already alive? They presume that because I think we need to support those who are alive means that I'm an evil Democrat, and that therefore means I like abortion. :roll:

I'm just ranting here, trying to decide whether I should just defriend these fundie friends on Facebook or not. We rarely have anything in common anymore, and while I appreciate a wide variety of views (I have conservative to flaming liberal friends), I do NOT appreciate it when people call into question my faith.

What have others done?

Re: your question: yes, you sure can :).

I wish I could think of a better response to you, other than just telling you I relate. I was raised Catholic by fairly lapsed parents, went to public then Episcopal then Catholic schools, and am now a practicing Episcopalian. I have a few friends on facebook who are more like aquiantances who are Uber-Catholic (two in particular from my high school). They're good people but not people I was ever super-close to. The part that bothers me is seeing this one woman, as she's gotten more devoutly Catholic, move from being really concerned about social justice issues to seeing to tow the bishop-line on every issue. None of my most Catholic friends, however, is what I'd call fundie (even the one who rants about Planned Parenthood's racist intentions and the Girl Scouts talking about masturbation). But there are days when, just knowing myself and my own moods, I know that I need to tune certain things out.

Anyway, good luck dealing with your fundie-Catholic friends!

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I always find it ironic that those who would call me a "cafeteria Catholic" because I use birth control, love my LGBT friends and family, and support women's ordination are just as selective in their beliefs when it comes to the death penalty, war, exploitative economic practices. I mean, I'm (obviously) down with the role of conscience in our tradition, I just wish people on the opposite end of the political/theological spectrum from me would OWN it.

This.

My personal issue that's sort of driving me away is the whole divorce/annulment one. On the one hand, I don't feel it's fair that I have to jump through a bunch of hoops because my spouse (non-Catholic) left me, and that they'll charge me for it. But also, the priest who I talked to about annulments where he basically acknowledged that it was just a paperwork process and came up with a BS reason to base the annulment on (in my eyes) - that our pre-wedding prep was not as thorough as it should have been when as far as I can tell, it met all the standards even if we didn't have a weekend encounter thing because, you know, we were stationed 17 hours away from each other at the time - and they still want to charge in the neighborhood of $500 - that really put a bad taste in my mouth.

The child abuse issue bothers me - not just because of the crimes, which yes, are committed other places and other parishes - but the attitude of the Church towards it - people being shuffled around, things being covered up, things like the Diocese of San Diego sending out a letter asking for contributions for the money that they were being forced to pay those who were abused in which they made it sound as if the Church was doing so voluntarily.

And yet, when I've tried other churches, they make me feel empty and as if I'm wasting my time (I haven't made the time to check out the UU yet). I remain a Catholic - just lapsed and not very good at being a Catholic.

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This.

My personal issue that's sort of driving me away is the whole divorce/annulment one. On the one hand, I don't feel it's fair that I have to jump through a bunch of hoops because my spouse (non-Catholic) left me, and that they'll charge me for it. But also, the priest who I talked to about annulments where he basically acknowledged that it was just a paperwork process and came up with a BS reason to base the annulment on (in my eyes) - that our pre-wedding prep was not as thorough as it should have been when as far as I can tell, it met all the standards even if we didn't have a weekend encounter thing because, you know, we were stationed 17 hours away from each other at the time - and they still want to charge in the neighborhood of $500 - that really put a bad taste in my mouth.

The child abuse issue bothers me - not just because of the crimes, which yes, are committed other places and other parishes - but the attitude of the Church towards it - people being shuffled around, things being covered up, things like the Diocese of San Diego sending out a letter asking for contributions for the money that they were being forced to pay those who were abused in which they made it sound as if the Church was doing so voluntarily.

And yet, when I've tried other churches, they make me feel empty and as if I'm wasting my time (I haven't made the time to check out the UU yet). I remain a Catholic - just lapsed and not very good at being a Catholic.

I don't mean to stick my nose in Desertvixen.

But I am a person who has worked long and hard trying to convince Catholics to convert to Protestantism.

I think it is an important issue, I would like to give you links to my pages that talk about certain problems within Catholicism that you may not be aware of.

thenewholybible.org/the_catholic_abomination.htm

thenewholybible.org/constantines_coins.htm

thenewholybible.org/god_in_his_turn_collapsed_the_entire_roman_empire.htm

Maybe being a Protestant is not so bad, Joel Osteen of the Lakewood Church (on tv) is a good non denominational church to check out.

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