Interesting discussion in class today - Feminism

[JesusFightClub]

So let me get this straight, if you discuss something with someone who agrees with you it's worthless and if you debate with someone who disagrees with you it's worthless?

[annalena]

In political dicsussions,yes. Basically. Because what's the whole point of doing it, then?

[JesusFightClub]

Because, uh, you learn stuff?

I think in really black and white terms (bad choice of words in this thread!) and I will admit I struggle with other POVs. To me something makes logical, political sense (because it would accomplish a useful end) or it doesn't because it wouldn't.

When other people explain stuff from their perspective I find it really helpful. I learn every time. I make loads of mistakes...recently on the Left discussing some things. If I know stuff that is a mainstream belief, it's incredibly helpful to realise where others are coming from. It informs me and helps me understand others. We may well not agree, but we learnt.

[Boogalou]

I think affirmative action is, well, I am kind of on the fence about it and I think it is not so great for three reasons:

1. Once laws get on the books about giving certain people advantages because of their sex/race/ethnicity/orientation/what have you it's not really that inconceiveable that laws can then start to go the other way where people are denied certain things based on the above. Will this ever happen? I don't really think so, but I am not convinced it is the best thing to write into law.

2. When we judge someone based on the colour of their skin and not on the content of their character, we are going against exactly the kind of thing MLK Jr. wanted. While this is an attempt to make up for centuries of discrimination and exploitation I don't know if this is a good thing to do, but it might be the best.

3. Intersectionalities. Let's say there is a white man and a black man applying for whatever, it doesn't matter. The white man grew up poor, in bad neighbourhoods, in bad schools, he is gay, disabled, and not cisgender. And let's say the balck man grew up in the middle class, in good neighbourhoods, with good schools, is straight, not disabled, and cisgender. Who had the easier time? Will affirmitive action take this into account?

Having said that affirmative action is 100% here in all aspects of our lives, it just favours the majority. There was an interesting affrimative action debate on YouTube that I can't find now on affirmative action. The professor arguing for it said that it already existed in their University. He said that aplicants got a certain number of points for having a parent who was an alumni and most of their alumnus were white. Students also got a couple more points if they were from a predominantly white part of the state. Students got about one point if they were black. He said we need official affirmative action in order to counteract our unofficial affirmative action and I tend to agree. In a perfect world it would not be necessary and I look forward to the day where we won't need it. Until then, I think it is necessary but imperfect.

And annalena check out this study where resumes were sent out with "white" sounding names and "black" sounding names, and the majority names consistently get more interviews even with the same level of experience: http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html