Trace Bates 3

[lumpentheologie]

I’m an American married to a German who moved to Germany after getting married. Germany is pretty lenient with spousal visas, and as an American Trace would be able to come Germany without a visa and apply for residency here (with Lydia).

BUT as @GreenBeans mentioned, to be granted a residence visa he’ll have to pass a German test. And that’s a big but in this case. I don’t think he’ll be able to do that anytime soon and I’m not sure how long Germany would let him hang out here and practice. I’d say at least 6 months, maybe a year or more. The test is a basic level but still it’s about what’s covered in a semester to a year of American high school German. I know a woman whose husband is Egyptian, and he has been unable to join her in Germany for 3 years since he can’t pass the test. He doesn’t have much formal education and she says that’s why it’s so hard for him. Trace could end up in a similar boat. 

If they do let him stay he’ll have a lot of trouble supporting the family. Germany requires formal qualifications for everything in a way that’s shocking to regular American sensibilities, let alone to fundies with their willful disregard for training or expertise. He could get a job as a food delivery guy (by bike, good luck trying to drive here) or at an Amazon warehouse but that’s about it. If they do end up here I’m sure Lydia will have to work. 

Culturally, he’d be in for a huge shock. He’ll be isolated not only because of his beliefs but because of the language. To have a full English-language social and work life he’d have to be in Berlin, but he wouldn’t get along with us heathen expats and he’d have to live in a city that proudly markets itself to tourists as the gay party capital of Europe 😂  Not to mention the casual brief nudity and public drinking found all over Germany on sunny days.

ETA: I just realized that since Lydia’s parents “saved” her from the curse of German education she also won’t be qualified to work here…they can go on welfare I guess 

Edited September 18, 2023 by lumpentheologie

[GreenBeans]

3 minutes ago, ven said:

We have public , Catholic,  Jewish and now islamitic schools also, a plethora of free top notch schooling to your choice. I am pretty sure Germany is the same way in that regard

It is. The point is, the German state (and it’s probably the same in Belgium) differentiates between “religious” and “fundamentalist”, and when it comes to schooling treats fundamentalist Christian school just the same as fundamentalist Islamic schools. And it values every child’s right to receive a proper education and socialization which includes being exposed to views other than those approved by the parents - it’s not a bug, it’s a feature!

[ven]

Yes I agree, but I worked for the pretty large satmar / pshevorsk/ chassidic community in antwerp . You can't get any more fundamentalist in your religion then that. They have schools, where there is almost no formal schooling but only very religious thora learning. They toe the lines of what is admitted very heavily , but they manage. They get educated in jiddish  exclusively. So there is a lot of leniency what you can't or can't do considering schooling.  Anyways, the romeikes shouldn't be playing out their religious prosecution card in the usa because their is none. You just can't not school your children. 

Trace can work any job in construction,  anyone will hire him if he is willing to just work hard. We have Bulgarian,polish ,Romanian construction workers who don't  understand a word, working very happily here and making a decent amount of money. She can go ahead and have her 25 babies and stay at home. 

I am extremely curious how this is going to play out .

Edited September 18, 2023 by ven

[llucie]

They could also move to another 3 country if it comes to that. They have a lot of options because both american and german passports are pretty strong.

 

[Coconut Flan]

9 hours ago, frumperlicious said:

it takes 2 years and several hundred dollars to even get an interview for a visa to the US. It’s just total bullshit.

The several hundred dollars was possibly the person's choice..  There is a fee, but the process is the process regardless of whether one hires a lawyer or not.  I've helped some people with the process.  The base problem is the HUGE number of people who want to enter the US..  The numbers who are already in line are posted and the number in each category per year who will be allowed legal entry.   Hiring a lawyer will NOT change the person's place in line.  

[SassyPants]

13 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The US makes everything unnecessarily hard and expensive. It’s a wonder anyone actually wants to come here from Germany. Sorry but Germany seems to offer much more than the US in my opinion. Of course I’ll probably always live here and I have no desire to leave the US. But there is so much wrong with the way the US is run. 

My daughter is an expat living in the developing world and neither she nor her husband want to come and live in the US. Visiting is one thing, ordering from Amazon and having your folks carry it down is nice, going to Disney, Starbucks and Target on vacation, all fun, but to LIVE here with all the BS that goes on? School shootings, lack of community support, obscene work hours and health care costs, taxes… Yes, living abroad you do not have as much stuff, but who needs a bunch of crap?

[HermioneSparrow]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

My daughter is an expat living in the developing world and neither she nor her husband want to come and live in the US. Visiting is one thing, ordering from Amazon and having your folks carry it down is nice, going to Disney, Starbucks and Target on vacation, all fun, but to LIVE here with all the BS that goes on? School shootings, lack of community support, obscene work hours and health care costs, taxes… Yes, living abroad you do not have as much stuff, but who needs a bunch of crap?

I live in Argentina. My in-laws are in Florida under asylum (we're not argentinians but Venezuelans) and they've been there for 8 years still waiting on the asylum appointment, it's such a long, expensive and exhausting process. My BIL has a American son, I can't imagine if they were to be denied asylum (even when we all actually escaped a violent dictatorship) and separating the family. Hopefully that won't happen. We will visit soon but we're not in any desire to move there, all of the problems you mention plus even with the crisis here we have good healthcare, education and many other stuff.

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

My daughter is an expat living in the developing world and neither she nor her husband want to come and live in the US. 

I hear you and understand you, yet, I wanted to offer a different perspective. 

I am European by birth and American by choice, dual citizen, as are my spouse and kid. I have lived in many countries and traveled to many more. There is nowhere else I would want to live but the USA, at least permanently. I could do a 1-2 stint somewhere, some time, including back to Europe, but then we'd be back home to the USA. 

At the risk of over-simplifying, this is what I have observed: many societies place a lot of importance on fixed paths - decided very early on in one's life, and very difficult to change - whereas American society is more dynamic. Many societies are based on collectivism, whereas American society is very much based on individualism. In Europe, for the most part, you won't be left behind, but there is little room or tolerance for square pegs in round holes. In the USA, if you haven't or haven't been able to create a solid cushion under your behind, you're s*rewed. However, I find there are a lot less limits to achievement and satisfying one's personal ambition, if so driven.

I was always a square peg. I left as soon as I could and did not look back. I started from the ground up (first generation college student, temporary alien, English as a second language, scholarships on very expensive out-of-state/international tuition, working multiple jobs always within the bounds of my 20-hr student visa limit, etc.) and built a great life and a great career here. I'm very attached culturally and because of my family to the place where I was born, which I happily visit regularly. I am socially engaged, vote, and do my part to make our home a better place, but for all the US shortcomings, there is no place I'd rather live than here. 

P.S. Trace is an idiot. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Shouldabeenacowboy

[Smash!]

On 9/17/2023 at 2:46 PM, freethemall said:

Instead, they waited until after marriage and deportation to say "hi I need asylum no nevermind I married a US citizen no asylum needed for me!" which is complex bc even though it all goes through USCIS, asylum and green cards are different departments, paperwork, and processes. They fucked up and I feel bad because it's confusing not only to them but millions of other victims of the system, but also they went about this the wrong way and/or got bad legal advice and that makes it harder to emphasize. 

A friend of mine went through the K1 and subsequent immigration process. It‘s expensive and a lot of work because of all the documents USCIS needs. If you make a mistake, you need to correct it and the whole process takes even longer.

Yet Lydias family who vote for people who want to make the whole process even harder, thought they were so special they didn’t have to play by the rules. No I don’t feel for them, not one bit.

[gobucks]

52 minutes ago, Smash! said:

 

Yet Lydias family who vote for people who want to make the whole process even harder, thought they were so special they didn’t have to play by the rules. No /I don’t feel for them, not one bit.

Do you vote if you are in the US as they are?

[raayx01]

54 minutes ago, gobucks said:

Do you vote if you are in the US as they are?

I dont think they can vote their not citizens

 

[BeccaGrim]

15 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

hey if it is looking like Australia is gunna get a duggar other places like germany should take one for the  team and take a Bates lol

I think I missed something. Is  a Duggar moving to Australia? 

[Smash!]

2 hours ago, gobucks said:

Do you vote if you are in the US as they are?

The Bates‘ vote GOP and are likely okay that the Romeike‘s are in the US illegally. Because to them there is a difference between the asylum seekers from poor countries (bad) and those who flee the education system in their country of origin.

[gobucks]

1 hour ago, Smash! said:

The Bates‘ vote GOP and are likely okay that the Romeike‘s are in the US illegally. Because to them there is a difference between the asylum seekers from poor countries (bad) and those who flee the education system in their country of origin.

I thought OP meant that Lydia's parents voted in the US. Thanks for the clarification.

[eljayem]

I find it very hard to understand Lydia's family and the choices they made. Almost every country in the world has immigration rules so while they might be different country to country surely everyone understands there is criteria to be met? I guess their primary goal was to be disrupters and bring attention to themselves.

I think further up the thread someone queried why the families case was being looked at now after all these years. Does healthcare come into it? The parents are probably reaching the age when more and more healthcare will be needed and will cost the state. I wonder if it would have been better for them to have pushed for a resolution when they were younger.

edited to add: I tried to think about how this case would be perceived in my country (New Zealand) I think initially there would have been no sympathy. They should have applied for the right visa's and followed the same rules as everyone else - it's a fairness thing. But now after how many years it's been, the younger kids have no connection to Germany anymore, the older kids have married citizens, etc I think people would be more lenient towards the family and say fair enough you can stay BUT people/media would then turn their attention on the authorities that allowed this to carry on for so long and ask wtf were you doing?

Edited September 18, 2023 by eljayem

[AussieKrissy]

3 hours ago, BeccaGrim said:

I think I missed something. Is  a Duggar moving to Australia? 

Rumours James is dating an aAussie fundie from Victoria near the Aussie Headquaters he was Down Under with them last month 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, eljayem said:

I find it very hard to understand Lydia's family and the choices they made. Almost every country in the world has immigration rules so while they might be different country to country surely everyone understands there is criteria to be met? I guess their primary goal was to be disrupters and bring attention to themselves.

I think further up the thread someone queried why the families case was being looked at now after all these years. Does healthcare come into it? The parents are probably reaching the age when more and more healthcare will be needed and will cost the state. I wonder if it would have been better for them to have pushed for a resolution when they were younger.

edited to add: I tried to think about how this case would be perceived in my country (New Zealand) I think initially there would have been no sympathy. They should have applied for the right visa's and followed the same rules as everyone else - it's a fairness thing. But now after how many years it's been, the younger kids have no connection to Germany anymore, the older kids have married citizens, etc I think people would be more lenient towards the family and say fair enough you can stay BUT people/media would then turn their attention on the authorities that allowed this to carry on for so long and ask wtf were you doing?

I think the opposite might be true. OK, in the beginning they were conditionally accepted for a limited time. What p*sses me off is that they knew the day was coming when the minor children they entered the US with would age out of homeschooling, and the family’s time in the US would end.  Well, that time has come. In the time approaching that date, why didn’t the family seek counsel and figure out a plan of action? I wonder if they thought birthing anchor babies and marrying American citizens were their golden tickets?

Immigrating to a new country is hard and one has to be organized, on top of key dates and informed beyond the basics. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by SassyPants

[BeccaGrim]

They're just going to keep going round in circles with this. If Lydia gets deported, and I doubt she will, and Trace goes with her and Ryker to Germany, they will try to homeschool that boy and Germany will start the same process. This really was quite a hill they decided to wage a battle on.  Moving to another country so their kids never had to be taught anything they might disagree with.  Hmmm. 

[gobucks]

They are asking people to sign a petition. Will that actually do anything???

[marmalade]

I guess they're hoping to get in front of a judge before their 30 days is up. I don't know what happens if they fail to get their passports. Are they then taken into custody?

[llucie]

I find it ironic all the comments they are getting about people wondering why they didnt bother to get a greencard in all those years because truth is the Bates probably would be sharing that same retoric if it was someone they didnt personally know.

It seems dificult to accept for people that a family that has been living and working in the country for 10 years are not actually elligible for a greencard and that it doesnt really matter that you had kids since.

Truth is the family didnt get a greencard because they cant.

Now Lydia can since she married Trace, but the process is not that easy either. Both Lydia and her older brother Daniel got married in a hurry last year, probably because they already knew the time was running up with Damaris turning 18 this year, and it hasnt been enought time for them to get it. Lydia said the lawyer has not even managed to get her case separated from the one of her family in this time.

[ven]

Link to their petition: 

https://go.hslda.org/HelptheRomeikes2023

I hope with all my heart , they can petition until the cows come home. Law has to be followed period. Trace should be learning German like right now , so he can work over here until  the papers get sorted.  It would be extremely weird if they somehow could get an exemption yet again 

[llucie]

6 hours ago, marmalade said:

I guess they're hoping to get in front of a judge before their 30 days is up. I don't know what happens if they fail to get their passports. Are they then taken into custody?

If they dont leave voluntarily then they get deported forcifully, but thats worse for them in the future if they want to get back.

15 minutes ago, ven said:

Link to their petition: 

https://go.hslda.org/HelptheRomeikes2023

I hope with all my heart , they can petition until the cows come home. Law has to be followed period. Trace should be learning German like right now , so he can work over here until  the papers get sorted.  It would be extremely weird if they somehow could get an exemption yet again 

I will be shocked if it works. I know exceptions are made sometimes by politicians but i dont think this family deserves it. Maybe the two that are married do get more time to sort their situation though.

[CarrotCake]

It says that they will be charged upon return but if the children are all 18+, why would they?

I am not that familiar with these kind of laws, especially in Germany but it does not make sense to be charged for homeschooling if there are no minors in the family.

[GreenBeans]

42 minutes ago, CarrotCake said:

It says that they will be charged upon return but if the children are all 18+, why would they?

I am not that familiar with these kind of laws, especially in Germany but it does not make sense to be charged for homeschooling if there are no minors in the family.

This is ridiculous. No one will bring any criminal charges against them if they return now. Their children are adults now, zero will happen.

And they wouldn’t even necessarily have to return to Germany. They could live anywhere in the EU.

No, their sole issue is that they have a community in the US favoring their brand of fundamentalism. They have built a life in the US. They do not want to leave that behind.

But guess what? It’s what all people wishing to immigrate to the US face when they are not accepted, despite having lived and worked there for years. It’s the law (which, by the way, they strongly support when it is about immigrants with a different skin color). And there is absolutely no reason to make an exception for this family.