[CW: Child Sexual Abuse] Josh and Anna Duggar 26: Smugshot™ Jermajesty Duggar

[Cults-r-us]

30 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Exactly. TLC loves garbage tv. It’s almost like Jerry Springer anymore. They pretend like it’s wholesome likable couples and families. The 90 day fiancé franchise is ridiculous. The Browns are a mess. Seeking Sister Wife is full of shady men. They love dysfunctional families and couples. They can act like they have standards but they don’t. TLC is trash TV for the most part. 

Mama June, anyone?

[Queen Of Hearts]

Has Cousin Amy weighed in yet?

[truthseeker]

17 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

And sadly, the JRod thread is languishing with only a dozen or so posts a day. It's just as well. The mods probably feel like gerbils in a wheel trying to keep FJ going on an even keep. Even Destiny is here. 

I think everyone is here!  I think I venture out of the Rod threads about once every 2-3 years, yet here I am ...  

[Finduilas]

1 minute ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

Has Cousin Amy weighed in yet?

WOACB said she spoke with her but there hasn't been a public statement. 

She also commented on some WOACB posts according to earlier screenshots.

 

[Satan'sFortress]

47 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

His siblings (other than maybe JD and Jana) would never have thought of him as a serial sexual predator. They were told he was just curious. That they should forgive him like he’d just bumped into them or something.

And JB in the Megan Kelley interview said something to the effect that it's not like it was rape or something like that--this was touching over the clothes---while they were asleep---the girls were not even aware!  As if that makes it OK?  And IIRC, it turned out that he had done more than that.

I hope the 5th victim is in a good place now and has had support. I imagine that she was also part of this culture, but hoping her parents did better by her and got her some help.

[truthseeker]

20 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

And this is also in the running for the next thread title... 

Who is TAM? 

The Activist Mommy

[Freejin]

2 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

Has Cousin Amy weighed in yet?

Yes. Someone posted a screenshot of her response to Josh’s jail intake session. Maybe that person can post again? Amy’s response was “he’s smiling?! ?”

[onekidanddone]

1 minute ago, Finduilas said:

WOACB said she spoke with her but there hasn't been a public statement. 

She also commented on some WOACB posts according to earlier screenshots.

 

WOWBC? 

[nelliebelle1197]

22 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

And sadly, the JRod thread is languishing with only a dozen or so posts a day. It's just as well. The mods probably feel like gerbils in a wheel trying to keep FJ going on an even keep. Even Destiny is here. 

Thank heavens. No way I could manage Jrod right now.

[SimplyMe]

11 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

I hear what you are saying, and it's been something that's always bothered me.  I even remember writing a paper on the topic in Women's Studies sophomore year in college many years ago.

I don't get porn myself, never have.  I find it boring.  And I agree that no viewer can truly know if participation is voluntary. But I know some women and pretty much all men are into it and that's it's existed for as long as man could draw on cave walls. How do you even begin to try to ban it?  Also, is there much of an organized industry anymore?  Anyone with a cell phone can make porn these days.  

So what does "not being okay with porn" actually look like?  How would prohibition work? One thing history has taught us that prohibition tends to make things worse not better.  And then there's the First Amendment in the US...

 

Prohibiting something rarely works, we’ve seen this time and again.  I would say the best solution is to educate people about the truth of porn, it’s contribution to trafficking and abuse of women as well as contributing to substantial relational and sexual dysfunction.  Interestingly Iceland - which is a highly secular, progressive country - has worked hard to ban hard core porn country-wide because of a “public health crisis.” There was a dramatic increase of men as young as 15, 16 years old seeing doctors for erectile dysfunction.  It was discovered to be a result of porn usage.  
 

I guess education and for those of us who care about protecting women and children, we make a conscious choice to never peruse porn and talk about why.  I’ve posted many articles from Fight the New Drug on my personal FB page.  I hope maybe it’ll help people to realize that porn is not a victimless industry.    

[Antimony]

26 minutes ago, SimplyMe said:

It’s sad to me that people on this board specifically are ok with porn at all.  In the internet age of pornography, you can never know if the women you are watching are there willingly.  Many are not.  Porn and sex trafficking are inexplicably linked and it’s a huge leap of cognitive dissonance to not be ok with sex trafficking/exploitation, but be ok with porn.  The industry is responsible for so much exploitation, abuse, and sexualization of women. 
 

This website is a great, totally secular, resource that exposes the harm that porn is doing in our society from every angle.  This article specifically dives into the links between porn and sex trafficking.  I hope anyone who peruses porn will deeply consider the harm that your clicks or dollars are doing to woman worldwide.  Every single click drives demand, demand drives the need for more women which increases trafficking.  There’s no “clean” money in porn.  And even for those willingly partaking, they statistically likely to be addicted to drugs, unable to quit if they want to, and have a very high rate of depression and suicide.  I don’t think there are many *healthy* women who would choose this profession.  
 

https://fightthenewdrug.org/why-do-some-people-fight-against-sex-trafficking-but-unconditionally-support-porn/

Hold on, I'm gonna call the fish market and see if they've got some oysters in stock -- you might need some more pearls to clutch. 

But let's chat.

1. Everything you've said tells me you've never listened to an actual sex worker and if you did, you would infantilize them or call them crazy. Disgusting. 
2. Human trafficking is being covered as a moral panic, not as an actual issue. See: You're Wrong About - Human Trafficking - Michael Hobbes and Sarah Marshall. The "numbers" you hear about human trafficking are overblown and non-descriptive. Most human trafficking is...things like people consenting to be taken into a country illegally across a border. Is that a problem? I mean, yea, it is -- there's a power dynamic, it's dangerous to the immigrants, but it isn't "sex human trafficking" the way you're pearl clutching about. 
3. Porn is not a drug. There is no such thing as porn addiction. 
4. Porn and sex trafficking are not inextricably linked. 

Are you really suggesting that if I pay a man $8 to his direct deposit of his OnlyFans and I know that man is a 24 year old living in Texas for content of him jacking off, and he's using that money to pay for a college degree, that this is....*checks notes*...supporting human sex trafficking?

This brand of "save the trafficking" rhetoric and "Save the women" always seems to be focused on never actually listening to the actual needs of any sex workers. Honestly. 

If you haven't listened to actual sex workers, I really don't want to hear it. There are plenty of them out there, and they are asking for certain things about their safety and rights --- and this is not it. 

[Kjaerringa]

4 hours ago, Giraffe said:

Are you serious?? After all JB has done to protect the predator you actually think JB cares about minors enough to request the courts mandate Josh not be left alone with minors?? Really?

No. I just think it is oddly worded, and know that sometimes conditions of bond are personalized based on the offense, victims, and requests of those involved. I've never heard of the 3rd party custodian thing before, especially when the words 'court appointed' or 'approved' were nowhere to be found. I DO know Jed! was required to have an accountability partner in order to move out of the TTH to maintain residence whe running for office...so it seemed plausible that either JB or Anna might have been behind that request. There didn't seem to be any particular qualifications or requirements for that particular job, which makes it perfect for a Duggar...

Edited May 1, 2021 by Kjaerringa
Left out a key word

[truthseeker]

6 minutes ago, Antimony said:

3. Porn is not a drug. There is no such thing as porn addiction. 

Are you sure?  There's definitely such a thing as gambling addiction, so not being a drug doesn't preclude it.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by truthseeker

[SimplyMe]

10 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I made an offhand joke because I don't have a problem with legal porn.  What consenting adults choose to do with their bodies is their choice, if they want to create content and other consenting adults want to watch it I see nothing wrong with that.

Of course I am adamantly opposed to anything nonconsensual - all sex crimes should be prosecuted.  

 

 

 

 

 

That’s the thing though - you can’t ever know for sure if what you’re watching is consensual.  Even people who enter the industry willingly, are often forced (by threats against them) to stay when they no longer want to.  Keep in mind too, that ALL porn drives more need for trafficking - either to produce films or for prostitution.  The latter because - again you can read the studies, there are many - most of the time escalating behavior.  Many people - particularly men - will eventually need to escalate what they’re watching in order to be aroused to porn involving violence, children, or whatever and also will frequently want to act out what they’re watching, leading to an increased need for women in prostitution.  
 

I volunteer for a local organization that aids in freeing trafficked women from their sex work, which is why I care so passionately about this.  There is literally no way to know if you’re watching consensual sex.  None.  
 

And to a poster’s point above, porn has been around forever, but not like what we have now.  Instant access in video form on many platforms.  This isn’t your dad’s playboy magazines.  

[browncoatslytherin]

5 minutes ago, Antimony said:

Hold on, I'm gonna call the fish market and see if they've got some oysters in stock -- you might need some more pearls to clutch. 

But let's chat.

1. Everything you've said tells me you've never listened to an actual sex worker and if you did, you would infantilize them or call them crazy. Disgusting. 
2. Human trafficking is being covered as a moral panic, not as an actual issue. See: You're Wrong About - Human Trafficking - Michael Hobbes and Sarah Marshall. The "numbers" you hear about human trafficking are overblown and non-descriptive. Most human trafficking is...things like people consenting to be taken into a country illegally across a border. Is that a problem? I mean, yea, it is -- there's a power dynamic, it's dangerous to the immigrants, but it isn't "sex human trafficking" the way you're pearl clutching about. 
3. Porn is not a drug. There is no such thing as porn addiction. 
4. Porn and sex trafficking are not inextricably linked. 

Are you really suggesting that if I pay a man $8 to his direct deposit of his OnlyFans and I know that man is a 24 year old living in Texas for content of him jacking off, and he's using that money to pay for a college degree, that this is....*checks notes*...supporting human sex trafficking?

This brand of "save the trafficking" rhetoric and "Save the women" always seems to be focused on never actually listening to the actual needs of any sex workers. Honestly. 

If you haven't listened to actual sex workers, I really don't want to hear it. There are plenty of them out there, and they are asking for certain things about their safety and rights --- and this is not it. 

as an actual real live sex worker, thank you.

folks with organisations like the aforementioned rarely if ever talk to folks like me and my friends who would absolutely tell them to fuck off. i wonder why.

[AussieKrissy]

6 hours ago, Sullie06 said:

It can! When we do presentancing investigations we can include a persons history if we have a valid source. It also depends on if records were sealed for any past offenses. Unfortunately, there isn’t much paper trail for Joshs past though. 

Would you if you were writing his report feel legally able to include the abuse of his sisters in the report. I have glimpsed one report of a cult member (a Canadian) that went into detail of his upbringing and how it contributed to his crime. His crime was not a sex crime though. So I know there is no way Josh’s fundamentalist and tv show upbringing will not be mentioned. 

[Antimony]

1 minute ago, truthseeker said:

Are you sure?  There's definitely such a thing as gambling addiction, so not being a drug doesn't preclude it.

It's at least contentious. Currently, it's not diagnosable and the content around it is almost exclusively driven by right-wing Christians and related groups. There are sexual psychological disorders -- like some hypersexuality can be considered one, but porn addiction in-of-itself is not generally considered a psychiatric illness. What we might colloquially describe as a "porn addiction" could be related to other issues -- an inability to be open about your sexuality in your family or culture, a mismatch in libidos, general escapism, etc., but there is nothing special about porn that makes it distinct from other sex items that make it more dangerous or anything -- certainly not the way it's framed as a "new drug". (Also, porn isn't new...?)

You can also consider something to be a problem or not based on how much it impacts your life. A gambling addiction might fiscally impact you. But, if a single man is jacking off to 3 pornos a day, is that really an addiction? Does it impact his life? Who decides when it is an addiction or not? For many people I know who are anti-porn, that would count as an "addiction" and for many people I know that would count as a "common habit for young men and something you can totally schedule into your day with no ill effects." 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

17 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

Has Cousin Amy weighed in yet?

Yeah - she posted on the perp walk article with a shocked remark asking if he was smiling.  She doesn't seem to be team Smuggar.

[Destiny]

37 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

And sadly, the JRod thread is languishing with only a dozen or so posts a day. It's just as well. The mods probably feel like gerbils in a wheel trying to keep FJ going on an even keep. Even Destiny is here. 

I’ve been here since the news broke. TBH, until last night when i became convinced that JoshGate 3 wasn’t going to follow JoshGate 1 and 2 in crashing the shit out of my beloved server, I was reading, but not posting because I was too busy obsessing on traffic.

I’m proud of my little server that could right now. Thanks to the upgrade in ... February was it? It chugged along just fine at nearly double its former red line for people online. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

15 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Thank heavens. No way I could manage Jrod right now.

If JRod announces a pregnancy before the this thread dies down you guys need to take care of our girl @nelliebelle1197 , lots of support, wine, and cookies.

I say you because if that happens I'm going into the moderator protection program not to be seen again.

[Antimony]

8 minutes ago, SimplyMe said:

That’s the thing though - you can’t ever know for sure if what you’re watching is consensual.  Even people who enter the industry willingly, are often forced (by threats against them) to stay when they no longer want to.  Keep in mind too, that ALL porn drives more need for trafficking - either to produce films or for prostitution.  The latter because - again you can read the studies, there are many - most of the time escalating behavior.  Many people - particularly men - will eventually need to escalate what they’re watching in order to be aroused to porn involving violence, children, or whatever and also will frequently want to act out what they’re watching, leading to an increased need for women in prostitution.  
 

I volunteer for a local organization that aids in freeing trafficked women from their sex work, which is why I care so passionately about this.  There is literally no way to know if you’re watching consensual sex.  None.  
 

And to a poster’s point above, porn has been around forever, but not like what we have now.  Instant access in video form on many platforms.  This isn’t your dad’s playboy magazines.  

Technically, there's no way to be sure your produce isn't the product of forced labor and human rights violations made against immigrants who have no protections under the system, but you're right from now on I won't eat vegetables, even if they come out of my neighbors garden and I pay her a fair wage for them. Instead, I will stop eating produce and yell at everybody else about how come they won't stop eating carrots??? I will make sure to never speak to anybody in this industry and ask their opinion or what could be done to improve it. Instead, I will call all farmers mentally ill for wanting to spend their time doing backbreaking labor to harvest vegetables to pay their bills. 

 

[FiveAcres]

1 minute ago, Destiny said:

I’ve been here since the news broke. TBH, until last night when i became convinced that JoshGate 3 wasn’t going to follow JoshGate 1 and 2 in crashing the shit out of my beloved server, I was reading, but not posting because I was too busy obsessing on traffic.

I’m proud of my little server that could right now. Thanks to the upgrade in ... February was it? It chugged along just fine at nearly double its former red line for people online. 

The little server that could. I think I can, I think I can...

[SimplyMe]

11 minutes ago, Antimony said:

Hold on, I'm gonna call the fish market and see if they've got some oysters in stock -- you might need some more pearls to clutch. 

But let's chat.

1. Everything you've said tells me you've never listened to an actual sex worker and if you did, you would infantilize them or call them crazy. Disgusting. 
2. Human trafficking is being covered as a moral panic, not as an actual issue. See: You're Wrong About - Human Trafficking - Michael Hobbes and Sarah Marshall. The "numbers" you hear about human trafficking are overblown and non-descriptive. Most human trafficking is...things like people consenting to be taken into a country illegally across a border. Is that a problem? I mean, yea, it is -- there's a power dynamic, it's dangerous to the immigrants, but it isn't "sex human trafficking" the way you're pearl clutching about. 
3. Porn is not a drug. There is no such thing as porn addiction. 
4. Porn and sex trafficking are not inextricably linked. 

Are you really suggesting that if I pay a man $8 to his direct deposit of his OnlyFans and I know that man is a 24 year old living in Texas for content of him jacking off, and he's using that money to pay for a college degree, that this is....*checks notes*...supporting human sex trafficking?

This brand of "save the trafficking" rhetoric and "Save the women" always seems to be focused on never actually listening to the actual needs of any sex workers. Honestly. 

If you haven't listened to actual sex workers, I really don't want to hear it. There are plenty of them out there, and they are asking for certain things about their safety and rights --- and this is not it. 

Clutching pearls?  You have to be f*cking kidding me!  I *have* actually listened to many sex workers.  Many.  And many of them were never there by choice, others may have been but couldn’t leave by choice. And I’ve never called them crazy.  I said most are not in a healthy place when they enter that industry.  And yes, I’m suggesting the 24-year old dude in Texas paying $8/month is contributing to trafficking.  He absolutely is.  As well as the dehumanization and sexualization of women.  
 

I work for an organization that rescues trafficked women from sex work.  I’ve heard so many tragic stories.  But please, try to tell me you know better what you’re talking about.  You’re wrong about nearly every point.  
 

Read the studies on what obsessive porn use does to the brain.  It releases many of the same hormones and lights up on scans the same parts of the brain that drugs do.  I’ve seen people lose jobs, families, reputations over porn use.  If that’s not some form of addiction, I don’t know what is.   
 

I am not some pearl-clutching conservative woman - I’m someone who volunteered for an organization, had my eyes opened to horrors I never knew existed and  has now become passionate about preventing these things from happening to more women.  Perhaps you should consider volunteering for a similar organization in your area and get back to me on the above statements.  

[AussieKrissy]

6 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

Wouldn't you know this bombshell is dropped while I'm going through problems of my own.  I don't have a lot to say that hasn't been said.  My fear is that while the only charges against Josh are for CP, that's only the tip of the iceberg.  Given his history, I don't for one second believe CP is all there is.  There is no telling what kinds of things these evil fuckers are into, and I don't just mean things related to children.

My fear is if their are any victims of his abuse they will be bullied into silence and or lying or refuse to come forward. This does happen in a lot of cases not just Josh’s. But the fundie wagon circling is a real thing... also shame and embarrassment and fear to come forward is also a major thing. My heart just breaks for any victims of any csa not just in this case. 

[truthseeker]

2 minutes ago, Antimony said:

It's at least contentious. Currently, it's not diagnosable and the content around it is almost exclusively driven by right-wing Christians and related groups. There are sexual psychological disorders -- like some hypersexuality can be considered one, but porn addiction in-of-itself is not generally considered a psychiatric illness. What we might colloquially describe as a "porn addiction" could be related to other issues -- an inability to be open about your sexuality in your family or culture, a mismatch in libidos, general escapism, etc., but there is nothing special about porn that makes it distinct from other sex items that make it more dangerous or anything -- certainly not the way it's framed as a "new drug". (Also, porn isn't new...?)

You can also consider something to be a problem or not based on how much it impacts your life. A gambling addiction might fiscally impact you. But, if a single man is jacking off to 3 pornos a day, is that really an addiction? Does it impact his life? Who decides when it is an addiction or not? For many people I know who are anti-porn, that would count as an "addiction" and for many people I know that would count as a "common habit for young men and something you can totally schedule into your day with no ill effects." 

Thanks for elaborating.  It's an interesting debate/issue, and one I've only recently become interested in due to discovering a friend has lost the entire proceeds of a divorce settlement on poker machines.  It was a revelation, in more than one way.