Gwen Shamblin Lara 12: Gwen says something I can't understand.

[Marmion]

21 hours ago, throwaway9988 said:

Rejecting the trinity is also part of Gwen’s...I forget what Marmion calls it...but basically Gwen’s doctrine that humans need to strive for perfection if they want to go to heaven. If Jesus is the same as God, then his perfect obedience to God isnt special, because everyone agrees with themselves. But if Jesus isnt the same as God, then Jesus’ perfect obedience to God is now an amazing feat, an example to the rest of us humans that we can obey God perfectly and never sin again. So rejecting the Trinity is important to Gwen’s teaching that everyone needs to have a 100% pure heart, never giving in to or overindulging in lust, greed, gluttony, or anything else, ever, for the rest of their lives. Rejecting the trinity in order to use Jesus as an example of perfect obedience is also important for all of her teachings about the “authority line,” another teaching which gets stressed a lot because Gwen is conveniently at the top of God’s supposed authority line on earth. 

The Nazarene and/or Holiness doctrine is called entire sanctification , among other terms of their jargon . Here is what the current edition of their manual says on the subject .  http://2017.manual.nazarene.org/section/christian-holiness-and-entire-sanctification/  However , rejecting the Trinity is not really fundamental to this particular doctrine . As the Church of the Nazarene , like most any evangelical church , does affirm Trinitarianism .  https://www.trinitynazarene.net/beliefs/  What you are describing in your post though , seems to me to be even closer to the Eastern Orthodox doctrine of theosis , or even of the Mormon teaching on exaltation .{ https://www.mormonwiki.org/Lorenzo_Snow_couplet_theology.html , https://webkinzwate.blogspot.com/2015/12/exaltation-mormonism.html }  All of these various points of view though are in contrast to the Reformed doctrine of progressive sanctification . { https://www.gotquestions.org/sanctification.html , https://www.uniontheology.org/resources/life/the-reformed-view-of-sanctification } 

[3splenty]

On 2/18/2020 at 5:48 PM, nelliebelle1197 said:

That picture is just so Gwod.

Gwod awful?

[throwaway9988]

5 hours ago, Marmion said:

The Nazarene and/or Holiness doctrine is called entire sanctification , among other terms of their jargon . Here is what the current edition of their manual says on the subject .  http://2017.manual.nazarene.org/section/christian-holiness-and-entire-sanctification/  However , rejecting the Trinity is not really fundamental to this particular doctrine . As the Church of the Nazarene , like most any evangelical church , does affirm Trinitarianism .  https://www.trinitynazarene.net/beliefs/  What you are describing in your post though , seems to me to be even closer to the Eastern Orthodox doctrine of theosis , or even of the Mormon teaching on exaltation .{ https://www.mormonwiki.org/Lorenzo_Snow_couplet_theology.html , https://webkinzwate.blogspot.com/2015/12/exaltation-mormonism.html }  All of these various points of view though are in contrast to the Reformed doctrine of progressive sanctification . { https://www.gotquestions.org/sanctification.html , https://www.uniontheology.org/resources/life/the-reformed-view-of-sanctification } 

Hmmm ? Gwen’s teaching to the Remnant is not like theosis, because it is not really about becoming divine or being One with God; it’s more like striving to be as pure and obedient as possible to authorities in order to be as divine-like/Christ-like as possible, and prove to God that you can be his most adoring and obedient little servant if he lets you into heaven. I think out of those choices you listed, Gwen’s teaching is closest to entire sanctification.  

And yes, rejecting the trinity is not necessary for the idea of entire sanctification to work, but Gwen makes it a big point to frequently teach that Jesus was the son of God and a human like us, and Jesus didn’t want to be tortured and die or do a lot of things. She emphasizes how Jesus and God are not the same person who want the exact same things, but rather that Jesus is God’s son who obediently “died to his own will” and showed God that his (Jesus’) heart was 100% clean of any desires except the desire to do whatever God wanted. Jesus did those things that God wanted no matter what, and is an example to all of us that we must obey God’s authority line and be pure if we want to go to heaven.  So rejecting the trinity becomes a key point for both Gwen’s sanctification and the authoritarianism doctrines (basically saying that Jesus ignored what he wanted and was pure and did what God wanted, so therefore we can be too). My understanding is that Gwen doesn’t like the idea of the trinity because if Jesus and God intrinsically have the same will and want exactly the same things, then Jesus’ example of sanctification and obedience to authority is less impressive and allows humans an excuse for falling short of meeting that bar. 
 

Gwen also doesn’t like the trinity because she likes to pretend that everything she teaches is based on common sense and natural laws (ridiculous and fallacious, but her congregation seems to eat it up). And the trinity is a mystery and definitely not natural or common sense. But overall I think the teachings about sanctification and authority are more important to the Remnant cult. 

Edited February 22, 2020 by throwaway9988

[formergothardite]

1 minute ago, throwaway9988 said:

she teaches is based on common sense and natural laws

Her hair is for sure not based on common sense or natural laws! There is very little natural about Gwod. 

[SpecialAgentCookieCrisp]

So this happened tonight.......me and my better half went to dinner. Gwod walks in wearing a black puffer north face jacket and her hooker boots, her extensions freshly groomed. Her makeup fails to do its job. Her and Joe joined a big group of people in the back of the restaurant. But Lord knows Gwen is a train wreck in person. Elle(Erin) was there without Michael.....and she looks like she might be PREGGERS! I actually prayed Gwen would choke on her food. 

Needless to say I'll have to find someplace else to go if they are just going to let the local trashy cult leader come in whenever. On the bright side, I got a free drag show with the purchase of my drink. 

Edited February 22, 2020 by SpecialAgentCookieCrisp
She's the worst and ruined my dinner.

[Blue]

2 hours ago, throwaway9988 said:

Hmmm ? Gwen’s teaching to the Remnant is not like theosis, because it is not really about becoming divine or being One with God; it’s more like striving to be as pure and obedient as possible to authorities in order to be as divine-like/Christ-like as possible, and prove to God that you can be his most adoring and obedient little servant if he lets you into heaven. I think out of those choices you listed, Gwen’s teaching is closest to entire sanctification.  

And yes, rejecting the trinity is not necessary for the idea of entire sanctification to work, but Gwen makes it a big point to frequently teach that Jesus was the son of God and a human like us, and Jesus didn’t want to be tortured and die or do a lot of things. She emphasizes how Jesus and God are not the same person who want the exact same things, but rather that Jesus is God’s son who obediently “died to his own will” and showed God that his (Jesus’) heart was 100% clean of any desires except the desire to do whatever God wanted. Jesus did those things that God wanted no matter what, and is an example to all of us that we must obey God’s authority line and be pure if we want to go to heaven.  So rejecting the trinity becomes a key point for both Gwen’s sanctification and the authoritarianism doctrines (basically saying that Jesus ignored what he wanted and was pure and did what God wanted, so therefore we can be too). My understanding is that Gwen doesn’t like the idea of the trinity because if Jesus and God intrinsically have the same will and want exactly the same things, then Jesus’ example of sanctification and obedience to authority is less impressive and allows humans an excuse for falling short of meeting that bar. 
 

Gwen also doesn’t like the trinity because she likes to pretend that everything she teaches is based on common sense and natural laws (ridiculous and fallacious, but her congregation seems to eat it up). And the trinity is a mystery and definitely not natural or common sense. But overall I think the teachings about sanctification and authority are more important to the Remnant cult. 

When we first found out they didn't believe in the Trinity, it sounded like it was mostly because she just didn't understand it... But as time has passed and her theology has evolved, it's gotten to where Jesus being just a man is the foundation of her entire religion... And the more her theology evolves the further she gets from the Bible.

[AmazonGrace]

I think the foundation of her entire religion is being skinny. Jesus and the Bible are incidental. 

[AmazonGrace]

A case in point, this devotional has nothing to do with Jesus or the Bible, just dieting. 

It's ok to eat late at night if you're hungry, especially if you ate nothing during the day.  Unless it's making you fat in which case it's not. Again, remember that hunger is God telling you to eat but feel free to ignore God if He's not keeping you thin enough.

 

Spoiler

(You know she's probably right that some people's late night binges are bad for them and it'd be good for them to stop eating after supper...but this would br just a common sense decision aka a man made dieting rule, which she has claimed to be wrong.)

[formergothardite]

4 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

I think the foundation of her entire religion is being skinny. Jesus and the Bible are incidental. 

Yep. It really seems like everything she does is based around being as skinny as possible. I'm sure her even her views on the Trinity has a foundation in being skinny above all else. 

 

[Blue]

9 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

I think the foundation of her entire religion is being skinny. Jesus and the Bible are incidental. 

I agree that the foundation of the community and church is being skinny - I just mean that in order to try to make this an actual "church" rather than a weight loss group, she had to create a unique theology... otherwise people leave after they loose the weight... she had to make the RF theology different and superior, and I think the basis of that is on dumping the trinity and making Jesus our example of how we can also be perfect. We've tried to explain Biblically to a few people in RF how Jesus IS someone to look up to, of course, but how being our example wasn't his primary purpose, and they've never heard such a novel concept. But yes, absolutely, the main focus and foundation of RF is weight loss. 

[SuperNova]

18 hours ago, SpecialAgentCookieCrisp said:

So this happened tonight.......me and my better half went to dinner. Gwod walks in wearing a black puffer north face jacket and her hooker boots, her extensions freshly groomed. Her makeup fails to do its job. Her and Joe joined a big group of people in the back of the restaurant. But Lord knows Gwen is a train wreck in person. Elle(Erin) was there without Michael.....and she looks like she might be PREGGERS! I actually prayed Gwen would choke on her food. 

Needless to say I'll have to find someplace else to go if they are just going to let the local trashy cult leader come in whenever. On the bright side, I got a free drag show with the purchase of my drink. 

Is Gwen a loud talker? I've always though that she doesn't really have a polite inside voice because she likes being the center of attention. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

18 hours ago, SpecialAgentCookieCrisp said:

So this happened tonight.......me and my better half went to dinner. Gwod walks in

Could you overhear them?  Were there other RF people we've seen there?  Was Elizabeth there (how did she look)? Or Brandon?  Were they all drinking huge glasses of wine? That seems to be the norm in all the photos I've seen of Gwod and the Gwod Squad out to "eat."

Details please. details. I'll just be over here.  

If you were at City Cafe, it's owned by Rob Day and 1 or 2 other RF-ers.

[Blue]

10 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Could you overhear them?  Were there other RF people we've seen there?  Was Elizabeth there (how did she look)? Or Brandon?  Were they all drinking huge glasses of wine? That seems to be the norm in all the photos I've seen of Gwod and the Gwod Squad out to "eat."

Details please. details. I'll just be over here.  

If you were at City Cafe, it's owned by Rob Day and 1 or 2 other RF-ers.

And I'm sorry, but City Cafe tastes like glorified and expensive cafeteria food ?

[Marmion]

23 hours ago, throwaway9988 said:

Gwen also doesn’t like the trinity because she likes to pretend that everything she teaches is based on common sense and natural laws (ridiculous and fallacious, but her congregation seems to eat it up). And the trinity is a mystery and definitely not natural or common sense. But overall I think the teachings about sanctification and authority are more important to the Remnant cult

What you described here is an example of " sacred science " .  

Quote

The next three patterns I describe in regard to ideological totalism are “the sacred science,” the “loading of the language,” and the principle of “doctrine over person.” The phrases are almost self-explanatory. I would emphasize especially sacred science, for in our age something must be scientific as well as spiritual to have a substantial effect on people. Sacred science can offer considerable security to young people because it greatly simplifies the world. The Unification Church is a good example, but not the only one, of a contemporary need to combine a sacred set of dogmatic principles with a claim to a science embodying the truth about human behavior and human psychology. In the case of the Unification Church, this claim to a comprehensive human science is furthered by inviting prominent scholars (who are paid unusually high honoraria) to large symposia that stress unification of thought; participants express their views freely, but nonetheless contribute to the desired aura of intellectual legitimacy.

https://freedomofmind.com/robert-jay-liftons-eight-criteria-of-thought-reform-brainwashing-mind-control/  And on another note , the theosis / exaltation isn't necessarily what she believes concerns the members of Remnant Fellowship , but rather more so seems to me , from what you and others have mentioned , to be what she believes concerning Jesus . That he was born a man , but then in accordance with his perfect obedience was eventually elevated to a status of godhood , only subordinate to God the Most High . This viewpoint is what's known as adoptionism . { https://www.gotquestions.org/adoptionism.html , https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Adoptionism } 

[RFIntrigued]

On 2/21/2020 at 7:16 PM, SpecialAgentCookieCrisp said:

So this happened tonight.......me and my better half went to dinner. Gwod walks in wearing a black puffer north face jacket and her hooker boots, her extensions freshly groomed. Her makeup fails to do its job. Her and Joe joined a big group of people in the back of the restaurant. But Lord knows Gwen is a train wreck in person. Elle(Erin) was there without Michael.....and she looks like she might be PREGGERS! I actually prayed Gwen would choke on her food. 

Needless to say I'll have to find someplace else to go if they are just going to let the local trashy cult leader come in whenever. On the bright side, I got a free drag show with the purchase of my drink. 

I can guess what restaurant you were dining in. ?

[WorseThan1Thinks]

I'm used to Gwen's awful outfits, hair and makeup, but tonight's cult service threw me for a minute.

Gwen gets up on stage to spend a few minutes to introduce a 45 minute video of her talking from 2012.  A reused video, again, will be the main 'sermon' today.  After the video introduction, she'll lazily go back and sit down in the front row and watch herself in the video.

So during the introduction, she's wearing this.

I ask myself why in the world is she wearing a winter coat and gloves (this is 30 minutes into the 'service' after all the music, David Martin doing his weekly bashing of all other churches, etc).  She did not just run in from outside.  

 

 

 

Then the camera zooms out.

This was her outfit she worn the entire evening. 

I have so much to say, but I supposed it speaks for itself?

[throwaway9988]

4 hours ago, Marmion said:

What you described here is an example of " sacred science " .  

https://freedomofmind.com/robert-jay-liftons-eight-criteria-of-thought-reform-brainwashing-mind-control/  And on another note , the theosis / exaltation isn't necessarily what she believes concerns the members of Remnant Fellowship , but rather more so seems to me , from what you and others have mentioned , to be what she believes concerning Jesus . That he was born a man , but then in accordance with his perfect obedience was eventually elevated to a status of godhood , only subordinate to God the Most High . This viewpoint is what's known as adoptionism . { https://www.gotquestions.org/adoptionism.html , https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Adoptionism } 

I didnt know about adoptionism. But Im fairly sure Gwen thinks Jesus was always divine, based on the bible verse about how Jesus was with God at the beginning. She just emphasizes that Jesus is not the same being as God. 

[WorseThan1Thinks]

On another note, the trinity has come up multiple times recently in these threads, so here are a couple quotes from Gwen today in that regards.  

"That even the Trinity itself is the biggest thief..."

Later Gwen praying "And God, we pray that everyone sees this trinity is a trick."

 

Her Christian theology is as bad as her outfits.  It'd be different if she just admitted she started her own religion (Gwen'ism?) with her own beliefs, but she shouldn't call it Christianity because it's not that.  

[HereComesTreble]

No joke--the above outfit looks like something a meth user put together.   With that outfit, hair, and weight; if I saw her on the street, I would 100% assume she was a addict, deep into that meth life.

[throwaway9988]

How dare you! ? Gwen prayed to God and that was the outfit he supposedly picked for her!  Do not question the Lord. 

13 hours ago, SuperNova said:

Is Gwen a loud talker? I've always though that she doesn't really have a polite inside voice because she likes being the center of attention. 

I believe an article posted last year described her voice as a “grating, hog-calling voice.” ?

[AmazonGrace]

The  bit I bolded in today's Daily Waste Food Periodical perfectly illustrates why I think Christ is just collateral damage in Gwen's quest to be thinner and not a cornerstone of her religion.

Spoiler

How to Stop Eating When You Feel Satisfied

February 23, 2020

by Gwen Shamblin Lara

0 Comment

What if you feel satisfied, but there is still food on your plate?

Answer: If you are at home, you can cover it and save it for later, or you can throw it away or give it to the pets! If you are eating in a restaurant, you can leave it on your plate, or you can ask for a carryout and take it home. We have the misconception that it is wrong to leave food on the plate, but the real problem is greed— whether it is helping yourself to a larger amount than you need or eating too much. If you serve yourself and later realize that “your eyes were bigger than your stomach,” learn to serve yourself smaller portions. If someone else prepares your plate, whether it is at home or in a restaurant, they have no idea how much you are hungry for and may bring you too much. You do not have to eat food just because it is there. Eat until you are satisfied, and either save or dispose of the rest—or you could give it away. Remember, Christ said, “It is more blessed to give than to receive.” Acts 20:35b

It is better to give—and watch yourself get thinner!

I'm sure everyone around her is very grateful when Gwen gracefully condescends to give them the leftovers from her plate that she played with instead of throwing them away . This is her idea of charity.

This Gwenotional was previously posted Jan 30 2019

[Blue]

12 hours ago, throwaway9988 said:

I didnt know about adoptionism. But Im fairly sure Gwen thinks Jesus was always divine, based on the bible verse about how Jesus was with God at the beginning. She just emphasizes that Jesus is not the same being as God. 

She's very confused on it all. She says he's divine, but that he's not God, but then tries to pull away from the polytheism she's sort of bringing in there. Then we have many friends who say that Jesus came to be their example that they can be sinless and when we say "Well YEAH he could be sinless, he was GOD" they say "no, he was a man which is why we can know we can do it too."

It takes a lot of mental exercise to talk through this with someone in RF because I'm not 100% they even know what they and Gwen believe.

[RFIntrigued]

Is Angels Armoire a Remnant consignment sale? I saw that they have that coming up on the calendar? Maybe that’s how everyone is able to dress alike and have expensive clothes. And what is this days of deliverance on the calendar?

[Blue]

20 minutes ago, RFIntrigued said:

Is Angels Armoire a Remnant consignment sale? I saw that they have that coming up on the calendar? Maybe that’s how everyone is able to dress alike and have expensive clothes. And what is this days of deliverance on the calendar?

My understanding is that it's stocked with a mixture of donations and consignment items. I think that's how they're all able to afford the formal wear, especially for the kids. I was shocked to see all the little boys in nice suits and tuxedos - if I had boys I'd hate buying those because they outgrow them so quickly... but this gives them a way to get their special occasion wear cheaper.

[Marmion]

6 hours ago, Blue said:

She's very confused on it all. She says he's divine, but that he's not God, but then tries to pull away from the polytheism she's sort of bringing in there. Then we have many friends who say that Jesus came to be their example that they can be sinless and when we say "Well YEAH he could be sinless, he was GOD" they say "no, he was a man which is why we can know we can do it too."

It takes a lot of mental exercise to talk through this with someone in RF because I'm not 100% they even know what they and Gwen believe.

Until you chimed in , I wasn't going to say anything further about this , especially as Christianity is not really my religion any longer , but by conventional standards of the Orthodox / Catholic Church , and all mainstream Protestantism , it is very easy to mistate the exact nature of the Triune Godhead , and thereby confess some sort of heresy . For an illustration of what it is I mean .  

So while I am not sure that Gwen Shamblin understands the Trinity , according to standard Christian doctrine , I am not sure that everyone commenting in this thread really understands Gwen's position , and how it compares to the typical Christian understanding of what is sound interpretation , either .