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Seculardaisy

Kristen Nicole Young

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Alisamer
1 hour ago, Melissa1977 said:

I thought vaccinations were free. Are at least free for children?

Free for children is my understanding. Covered by insurance for adults (only certain vaccines, however. Apparently they'd rather pay to treat yellow fever, typhoid, hepatitis A&B, malaria, etc. rather than covering vaccines if you're traveling to areas where those are problems).

Insurance is basically gambling on whether you'll stay healthy, so they'll pay for flu vaccines in hopes of not having to pay for flu treatment. But other stuff they play by the odds, and don't cover any more than they have to.

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adidas
19 hours ago, Not that josh's mom said:

Most people I know seem to say "flu" for the stomach bug and "a cold" for the respiratory flu that the vaccine will hopefully prevent .

Stomach bugs are usually rotavirus or gastro.

Influenza is to cold as migraine is to headache - so much more severe and a totally different thing.

One of my bug bears is when people at work say they’re got the flu and sure they have a cold. But no - you do not have influenza. If you had influenza you would be flat on your back in bed trying desperately to stop your skin from touching the sheets because of the sheer agony that any slightest bit of pressure puts on your body. The aches, chills and throbbing are relentless - you can’t walk, let alone come to work. All you can do is writhe in agony and try not to moan so loudly that it wakes everyone else.

Anyway its time for me to get down off this horse.

Wuhan has been put into lockdown - the Chinese government has quarantined the city. There is a lot of good information in the following link:

https://www.news.com.au/travel/destinations/asia/north-korea-bans-tourists-over-spread-of-deadly-virus/news-story/7515888653ff87b715b5e6ce7709590d 
 

The next link speaks about how Australia’s bio security staff will monitor incoming flights (we have one from Wuhan due to land in 2 hours):

https://www.9news.com.au/world/coronavirus-passengers-arriving-in-sydney-scanned-for-deadly-outbreak/e31ecfeb-e90d-4103-be67-539180a544e5

Edited by adidas

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medimus
4 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

I actually think it's because Americans have a higher level of fear in general. Have you ever looked at the news broadcast about ebola on the BBC versus CNN?

Have you seen this 

 

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Peaches-n-Beans

I know someone who wants to go to North Carolina for their friends birthday but they're now sick and "Won't miss it for the world" Their son is two and I want to ask them how they'd have felt if someone got on the plane sick when they travelled with him as a baby. But of course I can't 

Someone else I know is "Questioning vaccines" because "My friend had coronavirus last year and it's like every time a new one comes out there's a vaccine a few months later?!??!!?!!!" and "I've never actually seen a vaccine insert at the doctors office but I read one online and there's some scary stuff"

It's almost like that's how vaccines work. We have to see the disease to vaccinate against it. and it's almost like you need to have a basic grasp of science in order to understand an insert and that those "scary stuff' isn't nearly as scary as you think." 

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WarriorJane
On 1/21/2020 at 1:08 PM, catlady said:

Screw you and your oregano oil, Kirsten Young.  An eleven-year-old kid in my city died less than two weeks ago from the flu (I can't link the articles due to a paywall, but several have been published in the local paper since this poor child passed away).  Kristen is an idiot, and definitely dangerous.

Cat lady, are you in WNY?  If you don't mind me asking. 

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catlady
51 minutes ago, WarriorJane said:

Cat lady, are you in WNY?  If you don't mind me asking. 

I am; Cheektowaga to be more precise.

Edited by catlady

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indianabones
2 hours ago, adidas said:

Wuhan has been put into lockdown - the Chinese government has quarantined the city.

There's a confirmed case in the city next to mine. I'm happy the patient was smart enough to report his symptoms to healthcare authorities before he exposed too many other people.

I've been considering going to Shanghai in March for a vacation, but the combination of this plus my moral opposition to the internment of the Uyghur people is making it less and less likely.

Oh, and for the Europeans here who think Americans overreact to the flu- remember that most of us don't get government mandated sick pay. People can lose an entire paycheck if they or their kids get the flu, and at worse lose their jobs.

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catlady
14 minutes ago, indianabones said:

Oh, and for the Europeans here who think Americans overreact to the flu- remember that most of us don't get government mandated sick pay. People can lose an entire paycheck if they or their kids get the flu, and at worse lose their jobs.

This part.  My employer is generous with PTO (full time new hires get 19 days per year that can be used interchangeably as sick or vacation; it builds with seniority to a max of 29 days per year).  But I know people who get as few as three sick days per year.  Three.  So yes, an illness like the flu that hits suddenly and sticks around can cause genuine financial hardship.  It’s another reason why so many people continue to go to work with even a basic cold; there just aren’t enough sick days for everything.  Even one day of lost wages is 20% of a paycheck; that’s at least US$95 gross, based on minimum wage in New York State, and $87 net after FICA tax.  A loss that big means a utility bill can’t get paid, less groceries to be bought, less gas to get to work next week.  And that’s just one day.

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patsymae
11 minutes ago, catlady said:

This part.  My employer is generous with PTO (full time new hires get 19 days per year that can be used interchangeably as sick or vacation; it builds with seniority to a max of 29 days per year).  But I know people who get as few as three sick days per year.  Three.  So yes, an illness like the flu that hits suddenly and sticks around can cause genuine financial hardship.  It’s another reason why so many people continue to go to work with even a basic cold; there just aren’t enough sick days for everything.  Even one day of lost wages is 20% of a paycheck; that’s at least US$95 gross, based on minimum wage in New York State, and $87 net after FICA tax.  A loss that big means a utility bill can’t get paid, less groceries to be bought, less gas to get to work next week.  And that’s just one day.

Not to mention there is in many places an unstated, but very real, rule that if you take a sick day you are not a team player. Or that if you take a sick day you won't have that same day to take care of a sick child. It was back in the day, before "family friendly workplaces"--which are only available to certain people anyway, when I called in about a sick child and was asked, "Do you want your job or not?"
Do I want my job, to provide for my child long-term, or do I want to today take my sick child to the doctor? The American dream.

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Not that josh's mom
10 minutes ago, catlady said:

This part.  My employer is generous with PTO (full time new hires get 19 days per year that can be used interchangeably as sick or vacation; it builds with seniority to a max of 29 days per year).  But I know people who get as few as three sick days per year.  Three.  So yes, an illness like the flu that hits suddenly and sticks around can cause genuine financial hardship.  It’s another reason why so many people continue to go to work with even a basic cold; there just aren’t enough sick days for everything.  Even one day of lost wages is 20% of a paycheck; that’s at least US$95 gross, based on minimum wage in New York State, and $87 net after FICA tax.  A loss that big means a utility bill can’t get paid, less groceries to be bought, less gas to get to work next week.  And that’s just one day.

I had no sick days at all. If you were gone more than 3 days, besides no wages, you were required to have a doctor's permission slip to return to work. So I was out wages and the cost of a doctor's appointment too. I didnt have small children at the time, but I would also have lost wages to stay home with them. Plus I would have had to pay the daycare even though they weren't there.

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patsymae
35 minutes ago, Not that josh's mom said:

I had no sick days at all. If you were gone more than 3 days, besides no wages, you were required to have a doctor's permission slip to return to work. So I was out wages and the cost of a doctor's appointment too. I didnt have small children at the time, but I would also have lost wages to stay home with them. Plus I would have had to pay the daycare even though they weren't there.

And  you were out the full cost of a doctor's appointment even if the doctor said, and even if the doctor tried to tell you over the phone, "You have a cold/other kind of virus, nothing for it but wait it out." If you didn't have insurance, you were out a lot of money for the visit or had to go to the ER, contributing to that burden. And if you didn't have transportation to the doctor or the ER, you'd have to come up with taxi money. And if you came up with the taxi money, but didn't have anyone to watch your children, you'd have to come up someone willing to take your kids for the duration of the visit and the means to pay them (I once was in the ER with my 2-year-old and the doctor refused to treat me while the child was there, but... what was I supposed to do?"
And what if you had an elderly person in the home you were caring for? Leaving them to go to the doctor could make you legally neglectful.
You didn't have small children, and yet still it was such a burden on you to take care of yourself (and not infect coworkers). Shameful.

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Not that josh's mom
2 hours ago, patsymae said:

And  you were out the full cost of a doctor's appointment even if the doctor said, and even if the doctor tried to tell you over the phone, "You have a cold/other kind of virus, nothing for it but wait it out." If you didn't have insurance, you were out a lot of money for the visit or had to go to the ER, contributing to that burden. And if you didn't have transportation to the doctor or the ER, you'd have to come up with taxi money. And if you came up with the taxi money, but didn't have anyone to watch your children, you'd have to come up someone willing to take your kids for the duration of the visit and the means to pay them (I once was in the ER with my 2-year-old and the doctor refused to treat me while the child was there, but... what was I supposed to do?"
And what if you had an elderly person in the home you were caring for? Leaving them to go to the doctor could make you legally neglectful.
You didn't have small children, and yet still it was such a burden on you to take care of yourself (and not infect coworkers). Shameful.

Thanks for understanding the fact that not everyone has great insurance, sick days and paid vacations.  Some people just say, take a sick day, don't ever go to work if you're not well. It isn't possible in many, many people's lives.

Edited by Not that josh's mom
"Lives" not "loves"
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elsiedindin

Just wanted to point out to any American readers that this site has good information about vaccines as well as ways to access free or low-cost vaccines. Local health departments can be a great resource; when I left fundie-dom as a young adult I discovered I hadn’t been fully vaccinated, and I didn’t have insurance at the time. I was able to complete the full adult immunization schedule through my local health department for just under $15 a shot. They offered low cost STD/HIV testing, health education, and other preventive health resources. Definitely worth a try if you’re without health insurance or have a prohibitively high deductible.

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Melissa1977
4 hours ago, elsiedindin said:

I was able to complete the full adult immunization schedule through my local health department for just under $15 a shot. They offered low cost STD/HIV testing, health education, and other preventive health resources

It would have cost you 0 in my (far poor than yours) country. Vaccinations and HIV are top questions because it's not about one person health, it's about the whole society, so basically they thank you for going to get the shots/tests.

It must be easy and not that expensive, because my country is not extremely rich and far form perfectly organised! I know US is enormous and the size makes things more difficult, but still. Epidemies are a security question.

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indianabones
42 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:
42 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

It would have cost you 0 in my (far poor than yours) country. Vaccinations and HIV are top questions because it's not about one person health, it's about the whole society, so basically they thank you for going to get the shots/tests.

It must be easy and not that expensive, because my country is not extremely rich and far form perfectly organised! I know US is enormous and the size makes things more difficult, but still. Epidemies are a security question.

 

...Lucky you?

The cost of healthcare isn't really something we have control over, apart from voting for Democrats.

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Glasgowghirl

While here flu isn't universally vaccinated for free, elderly and people with various medical conditions get it on NHS and lots of pharmacy's now do them for people who wish to get them and I believe they are affordable. I qualify for a free vacine and grateful for it, my asthma is mild but fighting a cold is bad enough without getting the flu as well. 

I have nothing against people using some home remedies but they should be used as well traditional medicine or vaccines not instead of them. Anti vaxxers piss me off, I read on twitter earlier that Cory from Teen mom OG and the Challenge has said he won't be vaccinating his daughter when she arrives despite the fact his older daughter, Ryder has a medical condition that weakens her immune system and has hospitalised her several times. 

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Alisamer
15 hours ago, Peaches-n-Beans said:

I know someone who wants to go to North Carolina for their friends birthday but they're now sick and "Won't miss it for the world" Their son is two and I want to ask them how they'd have felt if someone got on the plane sick when they travelled with him as a baby. But of course I can't 

Ugh, tell them to put it off until spring, when they are well. It'll be nicer weather, too. And if they insist on coming, tell them to try not to infect anyone. We've got enough colds/illnesses going around in NC with our weather swings going on! (Short sleeves last week, bundled up like crazy this week.)

13 hours ago, catlady said:

This part.  My employer is generous with PTO (full time new hires get 19 days per year that can be used interchangeably as sick or vacation; it builds with seniority to a max of 29 days per year).  But I know people who get as few as three sick days per year.  Three.  So yes, an illness like the flu that hits suddenly and sticks around can cause genuine financial hardship.  It’s another reason why so many people continue to go to work with even a basic cold; there just aren’t enough sick days for everything.  Even one day of lost wages is 20% of a paycheck; that’s at least US$95 gross, based on minimum wage in New York State, and $87 net after FICA tax.  A loss that big means a utility bill can’t get paid, less groceries to be bought, less gas to get to work next week.  And that’s just one day.

Yes, all of this. I get NO sick time. If I'm not here, I don't get paid. I get vacation, but not much of it, and that has to be reserved in advance. 

11 hours ago, elsiedindin said:

Just wanted to point out to any American readers that this site has good information about vaccines as well as ways to access free or low-cost vaccines. Local health departments can be a great resource; when I left fundie-dom as a young adult I discovered I hadn’t been fully vaccinated, and I didn’t have insurance at the time. I was able to complete the full adult immunization schedule through my local health department for just under $15 a shot. They offered low cost STD/HIV testing, health education, and other preventive health resources. Definitely worth a try if you’re without health insurance or have a prohibitively high deductible.

I got all my travel vaccines from the local health department, and they weren't too terribly expensive. It's definitely a good resource!

I could totally understand questioning vaccines back when that study linking them to autism first came out. I was wary myself, at first, though I was never anti-vax. But that's long since been debunked and multiple studies have proven them safe. 

I'm always amazed at how people will listen to advice from a hundred people who say "This is safe and good" and then one person who says "NO this is terrible!" and they'll believe the one nut instead of the majority. I've seen it multiple times about multiple things. It's madness.

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SassyPants
14 hours ago, catlady said:

This part.  My employer is generous with PTO (full time new hires get 19 days per year that can be used interchangeably as sick or vacation; it builds with seniority to a max of 29 days per year).  But I know people who get as few as three sick days per year.  Three.  So yes, an illness like the flu that hits suddenly and sticks around can cause genuine financial hardship.  It’s another reason why so many people continue to go to work with even a basic cold; there just aren’t enough sick days for everything.  Even one day of lost wages is 20% of a paycheck; that’s at least US$95 gross, based on minimum wage in New York State, and $87 net after FICA tax.  A loss that big means a utility bill can’t get paid, less groceries to be bought, less gas to get to work next week.  And that’s just one day.

Not to mention the actions of the employer if one exceeds those allotted days. I worked in ICU nursing for 35 years, and yes, even with decent by most standards Of time off, people came to work sick because they needed their pay checks. We also had restrictions, for example if you had the flu and were out for 3 days, came back for 2 days, and then needed to miss for your kid being sick, which often happens with communicable diseases, you’d get dinged, even if you had the time accrued. Most people with kids saved the time for when their kids were sick. 

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PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea
1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

hundred people who say "This is safe and good" and then one person who says "NO this is terrible!" and they'll believe the one nut instead of the majority. I've seen it multiple times about multiple things. It's madness.

There's got to be a name for this phenomenon but I'd describe it as "being the one right person in a sea of wrong people feels so good!"

The other thing that kills me is that the one hundred people include *people who are trained in that field* and the nut is some untrained nobody. Doesn't matter.

 

/earth scientist

//at least more ppl seem to be getting on board with climate change - nothing like more and more crazy weather....

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JermajestyDuggar
8 hours ago, indianabones said:

...Lucky you?

The cost of healthcare isn't really something we have control over, apart from voting for Democrats.

The worst part of it is that you will find that so many in the US will vote directly against their own best interests. Time and time again. 

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Howl
On 1/21/2020 at 8:20 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

“Stomach flu” isn’t actually influenza. It’s just what people call a stomach virus. It makes things incredibly confusing when talking about the actual flu. 

It's what I generically call the puking flu, while being aware that actual flu doesn't have vomiting as a symptom.  

Also, there are prescription meds that help with the duration and severity of flu symptoms, but only if started within 24-48 hours of onset of symptoms.  The downside? Those meds are expensive.  Last year I went to my local urgent care and was given a pre-emptive dose.  Almost $90 and I have very good drug coverage. 

Edited by Howl

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JermajestyDuggar
5 minutes ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

There's got to be a name for this phenomenon but I'd describe it as "being the one right person in a sea of wrong people feels so good!"

This perfectly describes so many fundies. They all want to be special and set apart. Even from ordinary Christians. PP is this to an extreme. He even doesn’t want to be associated with ordinary fundies like the Duggars. He’s even more special than them. PP Anderson is the most special of all the special fundies. I think this is often why fundies in particular are so anti-vaccine. They already have such a strong mentality of being “set apart” from the mainstream. It’s just natural for their line of thinking that they be against vaccines.

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Howl

I'd say also that they conflate vaccinated children with evil Satan-infested public schools, and what could be worse than that?

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Tired
purple_summer

I’m in the minority in the US- I have great insurance that isn’t expensive, has no deductible, and super low copays. I also get paid vacation time and paid sick leave (3 weeks per year at the moment) that carries over from year to year. But my friends and family in other areas literally can’t buy a plan as good as mine, even if money wasn’t an issue. The US healthcare system is a mess. 

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bal maiden
2 hours ago, Howl said:

I'd say also that they conflate vaccinated children with evil Satan-infested public schools, and what could be worse than that?

Easy! That vaccines contain aborted foetuses!

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