Impeachment Inquiry 2: Now It's Official!

[Smash!]

Wooow Fiona Hill is powerful! She describes the political climate we have now as exactly being Russias goal when it meddled with the elections.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Smash!

[fraurosena]

 

[Smash!]

Uiii Fiona Hill threw Sondland right under that bus ?

[fraurosena]

Something occurred to me during the hearing just now.  The reasons for Yovanovitch's removal, and why she was smeared when Trump could have simply recalled her had absolutely nothing to do with her or her actions.

First of all, It was orchestrated to show the Ukrainians how much influence Giuliani had, so that the Ukrainians would take him, and consequently what he was demanding of them, seriously.

Secondly, it also gave Lutsenko the opportunity to get back at Yovanovitch. Holmes said in his opening statement that Lutsenko has stated in the past that Yovanovitch's efforts to combat corruption in Ukraine 'had destroyed him'.

 

 

[smittykins]

59 minutes ago, Smash! said:

Uiii Fiona Hill threw Sondland right under that bus ?

I think they’re going to need a bigger bus. 

[fraurosena]

It's important to know who instigated this lunch.

If Trump did, this could be jury tampering.

If the Senators did, are they telling him to... resign? 

Please, please, please, deer Rufus, oh wise, benevolent, velvet hoofed protector of FJ, listen to our beseeching prayers and let it be the latter option. 

[Smash!]

I'm getting visitors so I can't keep watching (I have friends who think the outcome won't affect them so they don't watch ?). Looking forward to your posts!

Fiona Hill doesn't seem to take shit from anyone and that makes her so important. Plus her remarks that the way this hearing goes right now is helping the Russians is impressive.

[fraurosena]

From yesterday's hearing. The one nobody watched because we were too drained (or it was too late) after Sondland's hearing.

 

[SilverBeach]

2 hours ago, Smash! said:

She describes the political climate we have now as exactly being Russias goal when it meddled with the elections.

Kruschev said "we will bury you", and the Russians are finally doing it. Just took 60 years or so.

[Smash!]

Does anyone know the reason why the Dems wanted to finish the hearings this week?

[fraurosena]

Trump today, clearly of the opinion that the Senate is his turf and that is safe from removal.

 

(note: I'm having trouble seeing tweets correctly on FJ on my laptop, so I may have double posted something)

[GreyhoundFan]

19 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

It's important to know who instigated this lunch.

If Trump did, this could be jury tampering.

If the Senators did, are they telling him to... resign? 

Please, please, please, deer Rufus, oh wise, benevolent, velvet hoofed protector of FJ, listen to our beseeching prayers and let it be the latter option. 

Politico had an article about it: "Trump cozies up to GOP during impeachment — including Mitt Romney and Susan Collins"

Spoiler

President Donald Trump is aggressively courting Senate Republicans as impeachment bears down, and on Thursday, he'll come face to face with two of the most unpredictable jurors in any Senate trial: Mitt Romney and Susan Collins.

By day's end, the president will have hosted more than 40 Republican senators at the White House since autumn began, mostly for weekly lunches that address a series of issues but also usually include a side of impeachment. Another group will head to the White House on Thursday, leaving just a handful of Republican senators untended by the president.

Romney has said it would be “wrong and appalling” for Trump to request foreign countries to dig up dirt on Joe Biden, prompting Trump to call Romney a “pompous ass.” But the Utah Republican seemed to be keeping an open mind heading into the meeting, even if impeachment comes up.

“It’s the president’s meeting. Whatever he wants to talk about, he can talk about,” Romney said. “I wasn’t expecting an invitation, but I’m happy to hear what the president wants to talk about.”

A separate group of Republican senators, including Mike Lee of Utah, will meet with White House counsel Pat Cipollone on Thursday, according to a source familiar with the matter. Cipollone is regarded by Senate Republicans as the chief impeachment strategist at the White House and the meeting is likely to include some discussion of the forthcoming Senate trial that will occur if the House impeaches Trump.

The flurry of activity highlights the increasingly urgent task at hand for Trump: Making sure the GOP caucus understands his side of the Ukraine saga, not just through his tweets, but from him personally. If the 47 Democratic Caucus members stay united and vote to remove Trump from office, the president needs the support of as many of the 53 Senate Republicans as possible, both to avoid his removal from office and to keep the party from splintering ahead of his 2020 re-election bid.

“For him, this is deeply personal. And he wants an opportunity to be heard,” said Senate Majority Whip John Thune (R-S.D.) in an interview. “He knows in the end that Republican senators are going to be sitting and listening to the arguments on this, and I think he just wants an opportunity to provide a defense,”

Trump isn’t the only one doing the talking. He’s also listening for signs of how some of the party’s most senior elected officials feel in such a volatile atmosphere, said Sen. Mike Braun (R-Ind.). Trump is eager to gauge the “general demeanor” of senators with “the impeachment process as the context," Braun said.

Trump has made party solidarity a priority, often grumbling that Democrats are more unified and don’t have rogue voices like Romney. The lunches and outreach to senators in meetings and phone calls are all part of Trump’s effort to put Republican disarray behind him as his presidency is imperiled.

“He’s got a perspective on the Republican Party: That we don’t communicate very well, we don’t stick together very well. So it’s an attempt to sort of bond us,” said Sen. David Perdue (R-Ga.). “We’re going to get through this impeachment thing, it will come to the Senate, we’ll vote it down and we’ll get on to the people’s business next year.”

The intense outreach began right before Trump released a read-out of his call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr, when Trump called into a White House meeting with senators and House Republicans to review the conversation before its public release. Then in late October, Trump began hosting lunches with roughly nine GOP senators at the White House.

In the lunches, Trump has told senators to review his phone call with Zelensky, cited moderate Democrats’ opposition to impeachment and complained about the House process. But he and GOP senators have also discussed strategic questions that could help shape the Senate trial.

At one lunch, Sen. Kevin Cramer (R-N.D.) asked Trump whether he preferred Senate Republicans to quickly clear Trump and dismiss any articles of impeachment or hold a longer trial that allows his lawyers to more fully defend him. The president’s response surprised Cramer: “You guys will have to figure it out.”

In Cramer’s view of the lunches, Republicans "weren’t there as part of a strategy session, we were there as probably more of a discovery session.”

One White House official said the gatherings have been helpful to get synced up with GOP senators but added “it’s too simplistic” to think everyone is automatically on the same page. "They have their agenda, and we also have ours," said the official.

The low-key approach from Trump reflects a lighter touch since Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) urged him to avoid attacking sitting GOP senators who criticize him.

Collins has rebuked the president for asking China to probe Biden and has been quicker to push back against Trump’s controversial conduct and rhetoric than most Republicans.

But Collins has also studiously avoided commenting on the impeachment proceedings because of her likely role as a juror in a Senate trial. A person familiar with the White House meeting set for Thursday confirmed her attendance.

In addition to Collins and Romney, GOP Sens. Chuck Grassley of Iowa, James Lankford of Oklahoma, Rand Paul of Kentucky, John Hoeven of North Dakota and Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia have been invited to the lunch on Thursday. Senators are not given a list of fellow attendees beforehand, nor are they given an agenda before heading to the White House to dine with the president.

The topics can range from Turkey to China to trade policy to impeachment, depending on the news of the day. Attendees have included at-risk Republican incumbents like Cory Gardner of Colorado, Martha McSally of Arizona and Thom Tillis of North Carolina; sometimes it’s a private meeting with McConnell.

But the group lunches consistently include members of just one party, a tactic Democrats say suggests Trump’s only goal at these lunches is to win acquittal from a potential Senate jury.

Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) recently likened the move to jurors “sitting down with the probable defendant to discuss the case.”

“He has so shattered the norms on what is proper that these lunches look like instances of bad taste. But in fact, he’s obviously lobbying the jury, so to speak,” said Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) of Trump. “If the American people were ever to focus on it, they would probably find it to be repugnant.”

Republicans don’t see it that way, not even those who lack close relationships with Trump. Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) has not attended any of those meetings but dismissed any charge that they are improper.

“If he wants to talk about what he feels is an improper process or if he wants to talk about what’s going on USMCA or whatever is on his mind, he is the president and he’s got every opportunity to invite anybody over to have those conversations,” Murkowski said in a recent interview.

Even though they amount to crucial party meetings, the lunches have largely flown under the radar.

Attendance lists aren't produced beforehand by the White House press office, and unlike at many of Trump’s events, cameras are not let in. But given Trump’s penchant for calling GOP senators at all hours, the outreach hasn’t surprised anyone in the Republican Conference even if the timing of the gatherings intersects with impeachment.

“I don’t think getting together and having conversations about issues, that there’s anything wrong with that ,” said Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas). “Senators will do their duty as they see it [on impeachment], regardless of a free lunch."

 

[fraurosena]

What the fuck is Nunes doing asking about the Steele dossier? What is he implying???

[fraurosena]

Being afkey for a while, I haven't been commenting. But I think I can some up what I've heard in the meantime: the Dems, as usual are talking about the facts. The trumplicans are on the defense, monologuing and attacking the witnesses, not giving them time to answer the questions, and if they do have the temerity to answer, interrupt them. Schiff had to intervene at one point.

The only things the trumplicans are doing is babbling about the Steele dossier, the bad dems, the witch hunt, it's a coup to undo the elections, everything is hearsay, the witnesses are bad, implying they are lying or that what they have to say is unimportant or besides the point, the proceedings are unfair, what about Biden?

It's just a sad show, meant to produce sound bites for faux.

[fraurosena]

Swalwell just succinctly pointed out that there is a link between Kash Patel and Devin Nunes, and he's citing the Daily Beast story that I posted earlier today, that links Lev Parnas and Devin Nunes. 

Finally, someone is fighting back at Nunes for attacking the Dems, and Schiff in particular.

Swalwell is even saying Nunes could be a fact witness here.

This is the very best part of this hearing today, by far.

 

[fraurosena]

Here's a clip:

 

[GreyhoundFan]

"Fiona Hill shows how Trump and Republicans function as Putin’s useful idiots"

Spoiler

When former White House national security aide Fiona Hill and diplomat David Holmes testified Thursday morning, they might not have made Donald Trump’s impeachment and conviction more likely, in the sense of providing new evidence of crimes and misdemeanors the president committed.

What they did do, however, was demonstrate that Trump and portions of the Republican Party have become what in the Cold War we used to call “useful idiots,” people who had become tools of the Kremlin not because they were devoted to the Soviet cause but because they were too stupid to realize how they were being manipulated.

In her opening statement, Hill put her finger on the problem:

Based on questions and statements I have heard, some of you on this committee appear to believe that Russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country — and that perhaps, somehow, for some reason, Ukraine did. This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves.

Later, Hill was asked by the Democrats’ counsel, “Isn’t it also true that some of President Trump’s most senior advisers had informed him that this theory of Ukraine interference in the 2016 election was false?”

“That’s correct,” she replied. Instead, Trump chose to listen not to intelligence and national security officials but to his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, who was obsessed with the idea that it was not Russia but Ukraine that interfered in the 2016 election.

As this conspiracy theory has it, Ukraine, not Russia, hacked Democratic emails and set up Russia to take the fall for sabotaging the election, and a cybersecurity company called CrowdStrike helped cover it up. Trump pressed Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to help him make this true by finding an allegedly missing server in Ukraine.

This theory is not just bonkers, it is designed to serve the interests of the Kremlin. Holmes explained what Russia gains from the spread of the theory:

First of all, to deflect from the allegations of Russian interference. Second of all, to drive a wedge between the United States and Ukraine, which Russia wants to essentially get back into its sphere of influence. Thirdly, to besmirch Ukraine and its political leadership, to degrade and erode support for Ukraine from other key partners in Europe and elsewhere.

Indeed, just this week, at an economic forum in Moscow, Vladimir Putin celebrated the continued repetition of the Ukraine interference theory. “Thank God,” he said, “no one is accusing us of interfering in the U.S. elections anymore; now they’re accusing Ukraine.”

To be clear, Republicans are not spreading this theory because they want to serve Putin. They’re doing it because they want to serve Trump, who plainly believes that any discussion of Russian interference serves to delegitimize his election. As Hill said, Russian and Republican efforts to blame Ukraine for 2016 interference may have developed independently, but “those two things have, over time, started to fuse together.”

But as Hill testified, Russia wasn’t just trying to help Trump, it was attacking the entire system of democracy by delegitimizing the presidency:

The goal of the Russians was really to put whoever became the president, by trying to tip their hands on one side of the scale, under a cloud. So if secretary, former first lady, former senator Clinton had been elected as president, as indeed many expected in the run-up to the election in 2016, she too would have had major questions about her legitimacy. And I think that what we’re seeing here as a result of all these narratives, this is exactly what the Russian government was hoping for.

Furthermore, the effort to deflect attention away from Russia and on to Ukraine has the effect of making Russia’s almost inevitable effort to meddle in the 2020 election more likely to succeed. When it happens — and it will happen — how are Republicans going to react? It’s all a hoax, they’ll say. Just a Democratic attempt to delegitimize Trump, the way they did before. Nothing to see here, move along.

And Putin will marvel yet again at how easy it is to manipulate the useful idiots in the GOP into doing exactly what he wants.

 

[fraurosena]

Conaway is now attacking Holmes for sharing the overheard phone call, saying that Holmes doesn't have enough discretion, and should have kept the information private. 

In other words, he shouldn't have told on Trump. 

Things are getting out of hand, with Conaway shouting at Schiff for telling him that he should let the witness answer. Good grief, this is ugly. 

[SilverBeach]

3 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

Things are getting out of hand, with Conaway shouting at Schiff for telling him that he should let the witness answer. Good grief, this is ugly. 

Rethuglicans are ugly. Self-control is not their strong point, overdone dramatics is.

[fraurosena]

Sorry, I've put Jordan on mute, so I can't comment on what he yells.

 

[fraurosena]

Adam Schiff is murdering the trumplicans in his closing statement. 

 

[fraurosena]

Whoah, Schiff got emotional and teary there at the end. 

"We are better than that!" 

[JMarie]

4 hours ago, fraurosena said:

It's important to know who instigated this lunch.

If Trump did, this could be jury tampering.

If the Senators did, are they telling him to... resign? 

Please, please, please, deer Rufus, oh wise, benevolent, velvet hoofed protector of FJ, listen to our beseeching prayers and let it be the latter option. 

Why Romney? I thought Trump wanted Romney impeached?

[fraurosena]

Just now, JMarie said:

Why Romney? I thought Trump wanted Romney impeached?

Because Trump knows there's going to be an impeachment trial in the Senate, and he wants all senators on his side. Remember, the repugliklans may have a majority in the Senate, but it's only a slim one. It only takes three repug senators to join the Democrats in order to remove him from office. 

That is why this lunch is so egregious, if Trump instigated it. You can bet that he's attempted to bribe these senators, who've all been critical of Trump in the past, to vote against his removal. I can't say that I have faith in these senator's integrity to believe they will break ranks with the trumplicans if Trump's incentive to them is big enough.

22 hours ago, thoughtful said:

I am taking all of this seriously, honest, but I can't help the way my mind works. I was just out running errands. As usual, I had a list.

Then I got home and saw the picture of Trump's notes to himself -- and here I thought I was absent-minded!

I now really want someone to sell shopping lists on which the first two items are "I WANT SOMETHING! I WANT SOMETHING!" in Trump's handwriting.

Hey, @thoughtful, Rufus has granted your wish. Sort of. This might even be better though.

Donald Trump’s Crazy Handwriting Is Now A Free Font Called Tiny Hand

You can download it for free here.

[GreyhoundFan]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

Rethuglicans are ugly. Self-control is not their strong point, overdone dramatics is.

They say (scream) that women are too emotional, yet we are "treated" to this:

and one "mooooore":

Spoiler