Joy & Austin 28: loss and mourning

[CarrotCake]

Joy posted a story of Gideons favourite spot in the 'house', which is clearly still a trailer.

[Jody]

46 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

I'm sorry for what you've had to go through. I have a similar story (6 miscarriages, 5 fresh IVF cycles, though I did end up with 2 kids eventually).

If you look at modern research in the field of psychology, it has emerged that infertility is the second most stressful life experience, the only one that is worse is the death of a child. But infertility ranks higher than the loss of a parent, divorce, imprisonment, etc. And the reason is exactly what you posited above - the outcome is uncertain and nobody can tell you when your journey will end (or what that end will look like).

I am so happy for you ❤️, it took a long time for me to genuinly be happy for others (something that I’m still ashamed to admit) but I really am.

I didn’t know about the study into how stressful it is, thanks for sharing that. What has absolutely pulled me through is that my boyfriend (he’s 44 but we’ve been together since college) kept loving me, even through the worst of my depression. He even didn’t listen to his dad who advised him to break up with me, since my depression was not good for him, and “at least he didn’t have a child to worry about”. Yeah, my in-laws are something else....

My boyfriend and I have been going through amazingly loving times this year, and I can’t tell people enough what an awesome guy he is. Whatever the outcome on the children-front will be, I have stopped being afraid that it will control my happiness in the future. And I’ve got my Love to thank for it.

[OyToTheVey]

55 minutes ago, CarrotCake said:

Joy posted a story of Gideons favourite spot in the 'house', which is clearly still a trailer.

I just looked. What happened to the actual house? Didn't they rebuild one?

[Chewing Gum]

24 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

I just looked. What happened to the actual house? Didn't they rebuild one?

I believe they sold it. 

[Charliemae]

2 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

Joy posted a story of Gideons favourite spot in the 'house', which is clearly still a trailer.

Those outlets need covers. O_O

[nolongerIFBx]

On 8/10/2019 at 11:59 AM, rainbowbabycakes said:

my exhusband had 6  they put him under to remove them. He reacts poorly to anesthesia though, and woke up mid surgery, lol... I only had 3 

Thankfully, they did only find 4. First day back at work and I'm upright anyway. Not going to say my brain or body is fully 100% but I did not experience any worst case scenarios!

Edited August 12, 2019 by nolongerIFBx
because didn't not is a double negative. . .

[Iamtheway]

7 hours ago, Cheetah said:

Did you go up Jungfraujoch?  That was so gorgeous and I really want to go back to the area now and spend more time doing some hiking up in those little villages, probably without my children though as only 1 of 3 of them enjoy hiking.  Of all of our stops on the trip Interlaken was my favorite (although there are some very touristy parts, but the overall area is so beautiful).

No we didn’t go to Jungfraujoch. Interlaken was our favourite stop last year so that’s why we went back this year. We actually lived on the other side of the lake, in Brienz, this time and we did some very light hiking in the area and also spent some time at the fenced swimming area they have there. We rented an amazing apartment with a view over the lake. 

I really love lakes and ny husband really love mountains so it’s a perfect spot for us.

[Glasgowghirl]

Jana took Joy to get her nail's done at the salon, while Anna watched Gideon for her. Joy posted on Instagram thanking them both, Anna commented back that she needs to do it more often because Gideon was fun to look after. So far it seems that her family are being supportive and rallying round her and Austin. Anna offering to take Gideon for her if she ever needs it is also good, I'm sure the other Duggar's would too.

[kachuu]

On 8/13/2019 at 11:04 PM, Glasgowghirl said:

Jana took Joy to get her nail's done at the salon, while Anna watched Gideon for her. Joy posted on Instagram thanking them both, Anna commented back that she needs to do it more often because Gideon was fun to look after. So far it seems that her family are being supportive and rallying round her and Austin. Anna offering to take Gideon for her if she ever needs it is also good, I'm sure the other Duggar's would too.

I don't know why it was the picture of her getting her toes done with Jana but it really hit hard for me that the loss of a baby is a continuous daily punch in the gut. I just can not imagine. Even when you stay busy, its got to stay in the back of your mind. My heart really hurts from her, (crazy religious views aside)

Especially when so many girls around you didn't lose their baby. I hope she is able to fully mourn & just grieve.

I can't imagine losing my child. It just chokes & paralyzes me.

[kiwi]

This has got to be so incredibly hard for Joy [emoji45] My heart breaks for her. All of a sudden shes gone from being in group pregnancy photos to not, and she doesn’t even have a newborn to show for it [emoji22]

[lumpentheologie]

I also thought the duggarfam comment on JD and Abbie's announcement was pretty insensitive to Joy. They talked about how special it will be to have all these girl cousins growing up together. I get that they could think that, but that's a thought I'd keep to myself in this case. 

[Jody]

15 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

I also thought the duggarfam comment on JD and Abbie's announcement was pretty insensitive to Joy. They talked about how special it will be to have all these girl cousins growing up together. I get that they could think that, but that's a thought I'd keep to myself in this case. 

People are incredibly “selfish” that way. It’s not selfish to be happy, but to not realize how your happiness affects people who’ve just suffered a loss. I had to ask my boyfriend to tell his mother to stop talking (incessantly) about how she loves taking care of her grandbabies when she was visiting us.

People are super offended if you ask them not to complain about their birth, babies etc. when you’ve suffered a loss; they take it incredibly personally if you ask that of them, even if you only ask that of them for a few hours. That’s what happened to me for the last seven years. I ask people: “please, could you not complain about your “traumatic birth”, ptsd bc your daughter was born 4 or five weeks preemie, seeing “all the mothers” taking their babies home while you had to wait an “entire week”, saying you’re not sure if you could have another child when you’ve had one “miscarriage” and conceive and give birth again IN THE SAME FUCKING YEAR. Please, just stop complaining. You have a child and you’re having another. There’s no ptsd. If you really had ptsd, there’s no fucking way in hell you should be pregnant and posting cute pregnancy reveal photo’s. Just no.

[Daisy0322]

40 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

I also thought the duggarfam comment on JD and Abbie's announcement was pretty insensitive to Joy. They talked about how special it will be to have all these girl cousins growing up together. I get that they could think that, but that's a thought I'd keep to myself in this case. 

To be honest what happened to them is so painful that pretty much everything is hurtful. 

I had a different experience but I had a really difficult pregnancy and birth that I dissociated for a lot of, was suicidal, and extremely depressed and anxious. I cried pretty much any time someone mentioned pregnancy and I had so many issues related to it that I couldnt go back to work for a full year. It took a lot of work in therapy (and still does), talking to my doctors and a little medication but I am happy to say I'm pregnant again and surviving. It's not easy but my sons are worth it. Point being though- the topic alone is usually hurtful and triggering until you work through it. I would feel extremely torn if I were Any of the pregnant duggar girls right now. There's really no good answers. It's just painful. 

[Fundie Bunny]

It would be so fucking easy to congratulate every couple for separate without refering ro the whole group. But nooo, we are the fucking duggars and the numbers are more important than our children

[HarleyQuinn]

On 8/12/2019 at 9:08 AM, CarrotCake said:

Joy posted a story of Gideons favourite spot in the 'house', which is clearly still a trailer.

She did a full IG tour of it now too. It looks so cramped, I would hate living like that.

[StraightOuttaArkansas]

I saw this photo this morning and my first thought was that Joy must be so upset seeing it. I mean fine take the photo, maybe before she gets there (was she there? I can't tell in the group photo), but then keep it private. This is not a one time event, there will be tons of other times with a bunch of Duggars pregnant that can be photographed. I mean I know statistically it will get harder for there to be a time where one of them has not suffered a loss of some sort, but still. I know this is coming off so leg-humpy, but I just really find it so disrespectful to their sisters feelings.

[Chewing Gum]

18 minutes ago, StraightOuttaArkansas said:

I saw this photo this morning and my first thought was that Joy must be so upset seeing it. I mean fine take the photo, maybe before she gets there (was she there? I can't tell in the group photo), but then keep it private. This is not a one time event, there will be tons of other times with a bunch of Duggars pregnant that can be photographed. I mean I know statistically it will get harder for there to be a time where one of them has not suffered a loss of some sort, but still. I know this is coming off so leg-humpy, but I just really find it so disrespectful to their sisters feelings.

I agree, if it were my sister there wouldn't be pictures at all out of respect, or taken without them known it and never showing it. I know everyone grieves differently but there's also something called common sense. 

[HermioneSparrow]

6 hours ago, Jody said:

People are incredibly “selfish” that way. It’s not selfish to be happy, but to not realize how your happiness affects people who’ve just suffered a loss. I had to ask my boyfriend to tell his mother to stop talking (incessantly) about how she loves taking care of her grandbabies when she was visiting us.

People are super offended if you ask them not to complain about their birth, babies etc. when you’ve suffered a loss; they take it incredibly personally if you ask that of them, even if you only ask that of them for a few hours. That’s what happened to me for the last seven years. I ask people: “please, could you not complain about your “traumatic birth”, ptsd bc your daughter was born 4 or five weeks preemie, seeing “all the mothers” taking their babies home while you had to wait an “entire week”, saying you’re not sure if you could have another child when you’ve had one “miscarriage” and conceive and give birth again IN THE SAME FUCKING YEAR. Please, just stop complaining. You have a child and you’re having another. There’s no ptsd. If you really had ptsd, there’s no fucking way in hell you should be pregnant and posting cute pregnancy reveal photo’s. Just no.

I'm sorry for all you've been through, I can't even imagine. I'm not a mom and I haven't had a miscarriage or lost a baby. The Duggars are certainly tone deaf but she will have to deal with this on a regular basis, there's always someone pregnant in that family and honestly it's not Abbie's fault or anyone else's what happened to Joy. She might be triggered even more when she inevitably gets pregnant in the future.

Having a child in NICU, a traumatic pregnancy, a traumatic birth is a lot to deal with, I've seen it (Medical student here), any experience can trigger depression and anxiety so telling someone not to complain about any painful or difficult experience is not okay. I know this is coming from pain but please take a moment and realize we're all humans and even when pain might be in different levels, it's all pain and it hurts. Let's not diminish our struggles, empathy is a beautiful thing.

You've been through a lot and maybe you should consider getting professional help to deal with all of this. My very best wishes to you.

[Jody]

24 minutes ago, HermioneSparrow said:

I'm sorry for all you've been through, I can't even imagine. I'm not a mom and I haven't had a miscarriage or lost a baby. The Duggars are certainly tone deaf but she will have to deal with this on a regular basis, there's always someone pregnant in that family and honestly it's not Abbie's fault or anyone else's what happened to Joy. She might be triggered even more when she inevitably gets pregnant in the future.

Having a child in NICU, a traumatic pregnancy, a traumatic birth is a lot to deal with, I've seen it (Medical student here), any experience can trigger depression and anxiety so telling someone not to complain about any painful or difficult experience is not okay. I know this is coming from pain but please take a moment and realize we're all humans and even when pain might be in different levels, it's all pain and it hurts. Let's not diminish our struggles, empathy is a beautiful thing.

You've been through a lot and maybe you should consider getting professional help to deal with all of this. My very best wishes to you.

Thanks. My point was that right after a loss, people could be more considerate and just not complain. I referred not so much to a real trauma as to people being overly dramatic about a birth where they leave the hospital with no complications. I know you try to be empathic, but if you have a “ take home baby” with no issues, you do not get to complain when I’ve just had a miscarriage. You just don’t.

[theotherelise]

Jinger, Jessa, Joy, and I all have that same rug in our homes. Joy's is small, Jinger's is in Felicity's room, and Jessa and I have it in our living rooms. Weird that they all have such similar tastes, but I guess it's a pretty neutral rug. 

Obviously the 5th wheel is pretty small, but it's really fine. They keep it pretty tidy, they seem to spend a lot of time outside, and Joy can always go spend time at the big house during the day. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, HarleyQuinn said:

She did a full IG tour of it now too. It looks so cramped, I would hate living like that.

Different opinions make the world go round. I thought it looked nice, and open, but I would love to spend a year or two living in a tiny house (less than 400 sq feet).  I still kind of miss our 1st home, it was only 900 sq feet but it was perfect for our little family, we are in an 1600 sq foot house now and are looking to downsize when the kids move out.  I can't stand the idea of living in a house so big that someone could be in it and you would never know.  I, personally don't get the appeal of these huge sprawling homes, too much space heat/cool/clean, and I don't need separate rooms for every single person.  My sister would be miserable if she had to live in a small rundown home, she wants everything to be big new and shiny, as is my brother, I on the other hand give no fucks about new and shine, I just want homey and comfortable, and I realize I'm an odd duck. 

 

Y'all be shocked to hear that the 4 of us live in a house (and have for 15 yrs) with only ONE shower, and it is tiny, I would guess it is 5' x 6', we have a 1/2 bath in the "master" bedroom but it is only about 3'x4' but some how we've managed to raise two teenagers with only one full bathroom. it can be done, sure it would have been nice to have separate bathrooms, but we made it work.

[Marly]

5 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Y'all be shocked to hear that the 4 of us live in a house (and have for 15 yrs) with only ONE shower, and it is tiny, I would guess it is 5' x 6', we have a 1/2 bath in the "master" bedroom but it is only about 3'x4' but some how we've managed to raise two teenagers with only one full bathroom. it can be done, sure it would have been nice to have separate bathrooms, but we made it work.

Where I live the norm tends to be one bathroom per one-family home (and two w.c.'s, of which one is usually located in the bathroom)*. Only villa's usually have more than one bathroom. 
The home I grew up in and where my parents still live only has one bathroom. We were with 5 people, and when my brothers and I were teenagers it could be quite annoying. We kind of had to schedule who would use the bathroom when, but my brothers didn't always stick to the schedule or just completely forgot about it. As a result it happened more than once that one of them was occupying the bathroom when I only had 5 minutes left to brush my teeth and leave for school. (I can laugh about it now but I remember being really angry with them at those moments?).
When I first started dating my boyfriend and he told me that his parents had two bathrooms in their house, 1 on each floor, I was shocked. Until then I had only ever met one other Dutch person before who had had two bathrooms, and that other person was rich and lived in a big-ass mansion. My bf's parents lived in a regular sized house. It turned out that that house originally also only had one bathroom. When his parents got divorced and his stepdad moved in, they added an extra bathroom because stepdad didn't want to have to share a bathroom with his step-kids ?

*Of course there are exceptions, some homes do have more bathrooms and some homes only have one w.c..

[lumpentheologie]

I once lived in a 4-bedroom house with 10 people and 1 bathroom.  We had to get creative but it was probably the best housing arrangement I've ever had, despite the lack of bathroom access. Large garden, great roommates, a fireplace, ridiculously low rent, we rotated who cooked. I still miss it. 

[viii]

2 hours ago, StraightOuttaArkansas said:

I saw this photo this morning and my first thought was that Joy must be so upset seeing it. I mean fine take the photo, maybe before she gets there (was she there? I can't tell in the group photo), but then keep it private. This is not a one time event, there will be tons of other times with a bunch of Duggars pregnant that can be photographed. I mean I know statistically it will get harder for there to be a time where one of them has not suffered a loss of some sort, but still. I know this is coming off so leg-humpy, but I just really find it so disrespectful to their sisters feelings.

I understand what you mean, but it must be such a difficult spot for some of them. Kendra and Anna are fine, but for someone like Lauren who has suffered a loss and is now thrilled to be pregnant again, she must want to shout it to the world. And for someone like Abbie and Amy, who are celebrating their first pregnancies, they must be so excited. 

It's such a fine line between celebrating your own joy and being sensitive to someone who is devastated. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

24 minutes ago, viii said:

I understand what you mean, but it must be such a difficult spot for some of them. Kendra and Anna are fine, but for someone like Lauren who has suffered a loss and is now thrilled to be pregnant again, she must want to shout it to the world. And for someone like Abbie and Amy, who are celebrating their first pregnancies, they must be so excited. 

It's such a fine line between celebrating your own joy and being sensitive to someone who is devastated. 

There was a group of us and 2 women were due at the same time, one had a health baby girl the other there was a birth accident and the baby (also a girl) was still born. We had to do a fine dance around being excited for this one while being sensitive to that one.  I remember when the friend who lost the baby finally got the courage to see the other friends baby and hold her, we sat there with her while she just cried and cried for what she had lost, at this point the baby was about 6 months old (we also don't all live in the same area so getting together is a production at times). The mom whose baby survived was and still is so good about never feeling hurt or upset of the other friend can't acknowledge a birthday or milestone. The girls will/would be seniors in high school this year and will turn 18 next month.  She's moved on as best you can, she went on to have another baby 2ish years later, that little girl is starting her freshman year.  But the last week of Sept is always very hard for her and her husband.