Is this for real? Ultra Orthodox vs Girls School

[treemom]

I bow to your knowledge of mental illness. Fortunately its not something I have had too much contact with, other than women who claim their husbands are super controlling and borderline abusive to them because of their husband's religious obsessions, and then they later find out that he has been diagnosed with OCD. So I assumed similar things could happen in situations like what was described in the OP.

I think that possibly that would be OCPD which is a personality disorder, not an anxiety disorder (which is OCD). OCPD and OCD can seem similar to outsiders but they are vastly different in what the disorder is and the best treatments.

And what Terrie says is correct. When you have OCD you are totally aware of it not being logical. I find people tend to think that anything that falls on the high end of the normal spectrum is OCD and it isn't.

Wiki on OCPD (which is pretty accurate in my lay opinion) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive% ... y_disorder

[Jewess]

I think that possibly that would be OCPD which is a personality disorder, not an anxiety disorder (which is OCD). OCPD and OCD can seem similar to outsiders but they are vastly different in what the disorder is and the best treatments.

And what Terrie says is correct. When you have OCD you are totally aware of it not being logical. I find people tend to think that anything that falls on the high end of the normal spectrum is OCD and it isn't.

Wiki on OCPD (which is pretty accurate in my lay opinion) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive% ... y_disorder

Aha. Thanks for the clarification!

So people with OCPD aren't aware that they're being illogical?

[treemom]

Aha. Thanks for the clarification!

So people with OCPD aren't aware that they're being illogical?

No, they are quite sure they are right, completely and utterly right. That is why like many personality disorders treatment can be difficult. Also, I believe (again lay opinion) that most with OCPD like their obsessions and compulsions. My obsessions were uncontrollable and life limiting and my compulsions were simply a release valve. I hated them both but the reasonable part of my brain couldn't seem to convince the unreasonable part to stop.

[fundyfunland]

Yes, extremism is present in any religion. You just need a mix of power-hungry people, vulnerable people, and texts that can be interpreted in a gazillion different ways.

As for the OCD comment, speaking as a mental health nurse - no one "becomes ocd." No one becomes a "schizophrenic." It is a condition, not a personality or career.

I have seen a lot of patients who have issues with reality/delusions/paranoia being religiously-preoccupied, and it's not uncommon to see already religious patients become more fundamentalist in their approach, while they are ill. This usually takes the form of increased praying & talking to God/Jesus directly talking to them (for Christians), increased praying (for Muslims), and increased ritualistic behaviours (for Jews).

[FaustianSlip]

This kind of stuff makes me so angry. It's part and parcel of why I feel really strongly that Israel needs to come up with civil options for things like marriage, burial and so on and start doing some serious work on separating synagogue and state. That's not to say that I don't think Israel should be a Jewish state, but a Jewish state run by people like this isn't worth having, IMHO. And it's pretty common knowledge that the Israeli rabbinate has been shifting further and further to the right for years now. Don't even get me started on the crap that goes on on those Egged buses.

[Terrie]

I bow to your knowledge of mental illness. Fortunately its not something I have had too much contact with, other than women who claim their husbands are super controlling and borderline abusive to them because of their husband's religious obsessions, and then they later find out that he has been diagnosed with OCD. So I assumed similar things could happen in situations like what was described in the OP.

The only area where I see OCD being controlling is when it comes to triggers and compulsions. For example, I have an issue with parasites. I don't want people to bring up the topic with me, or watch shows about them when I'm in the room. Compulsions are important because they relieve stress. It's like scratching an itch. You know you shouldn't, but it feels so good when you do. If someone comes along and interrupts my compulsions, it's a little like having someone grab my hands to stop me from scratching. You can expect a negative reaction.

For example, I know someone who had to have a bathroom that could only be used by family members, because she could not use a bathroom that someone outside the immediate family had used, because of fear of their germs. But she had no problem with family members using the "public" bathroom in the house, or with them using public restrooms. Just so long as she didn't have to.

But just generally being a giant control freak about everything? That's called being an asshole. There may be overlap with OCD, but in the end, OCD doesn't make a person an asshole. It simply makes that person an asshole who happens to have OCD.

[Jewess]

This kind of stuff makes me so angry. It's part and parcel of why I feel really strongly that Israel needs to come up with civil options for things like marriage, burial and so on and start doing some serious work on separating synagogue and state. That's not to say that I don't think Israel should be a Jewish state, but a Jewish state run by people like this isn't worth having, IMHO. And it's pretty common knowledge that the Israeli rabbinate has been shifting further and further to the right for years now. Don't even get me started on the crap that goes on on those Egged buses.

Oh, the Israeli government is certainly NOT run by these people. In fact, the Israeli government is actually pretty anti religious.

[VeraAnne]

uh - sorry what?

Saudi Arabia has a morality police that basically goes around beating people who aren't dressed "modestly" enough. AKA full burka.

A few years ago there was a fire at a girls school. The girls weren't wearing any sort of covering because they were only around other women. When they tried to flee the fire, the morality police locked the gates and pushed them back into the burning building because they weren't covered.

[saraelise]

Saudi Arabia has a morality police that basically goes around beating people who aren't dressed "modestly" enough. AKA full burka.

A few years ago there was a fire at a girls school. The girls weren't wearing any sort of covering because they were only around other women. When they tried to flee the fire, the morality police locked the gates and pushed them back into the burning building because they weren't covered.

Saudis wear niqabs, Afghanis are the ones you see wearing burqas.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi ... /img/2.jpg

[VeraAnne]

Saudi's also wear burkas, but the point is rather moot considering that they lock children in a burning building for failing to follow their arbitrary standards of modesty. I don't care if they were forcing girls to wear a red bow on their heads, the fact that they would burn a child to death tells you everything you need to know about them and their view of women.

[Swamptribe]

Nothing can ever be worse than the Saudi "Morality Police" pushing girls back into a burning school because they weren't covered.

I heard two versions of this, the one above, and one from a Saudi women living there at the time.

Seems a lot of the schools over there are old, and fire traps and horribly overcrowded. According to what this woman heard, the girls were not forced back into the school, but couldn't get out because the janitors had padlocked the doors from the outside. The janitors were later executed. Reforms and new school buildings were promised because of this incident.

No idea which version is accurate. Just sayin.

[VeraAnne]

Here's a Washington Post article on the issue:

"There was plenty to be angry about. Some 800 schoolgirls were crammed into a building designed for only 250. The main gate to the school was locked. There were no emergency exits, no fire alarms and no fire extinguishers in the building.

But another far more sinister detail in this particular tragedy shows that it could not have happened anywhere but Saudi Arabia.

Firefighters told the Saudi press that morality police forced girls to stay inside the burning building because they were not wearing the head scarves and black cloaks known as abayas that women must wear in public in that kingdom. One Saudi paper said the morality police stopped men who tried to help the girls escape the building, saying, "It is sinful to approach them."

Girls died because zealots at the gate would rather see them burn than appear in public dressed inappropriately."

So yes, the school was a death trap, but the morality police were the ones preventing the girls from being saved and pushing them back into the building.