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Howl

LGBT perspective: Chris Pratt + Hillsong Church

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Howl

I thought we had a thread on Celebrity Christians! and their warm fuzzy uber hip churches.  Hillsong, Zoe and Homechurch were the churches referenced in this VOX article

The rise of the star-studded, Instagram-friendly evangelical church Chris Pratt, Justin Bieber, and the “cool” Christian celebrity.

Quote

Carl Lentz, a Hillsong pastor and close friend of Justin Bieber, said, “We don’t use the word ‘religion,’ because it’s hard to get people excited about religion. … Religion has no power. But a relationship with God is a superpower.”

All well, good and welcoming if you are straight and conservative and (overwhelmingly) white. I came across this twitter thread written by a trans person about their experience with exactly this type of church.  Everyone loves you as you are until they find out who you really are and then they don't. 

Spoiler

 

Look, I don't know Chris Pratt, and I never will. I'm only familiar with his work onscreen. But I know how churches like @Hillsong work because I've attended a church like it. Let me take you on a tour of the culture. (thread)

Quick disclaimer: I'm a church-going Christian. I have my own personal relationship with God. I'm also a flaming liberal and a proud trans woman. I also am a big believer that people should mind their own goddamn business and keep religion out of government. So, with that...

Imagine that all the bad shit in Christianity remains but now it's dressed up in really soft, warm sermons and concert-like worship services with stage lights and fashionable preachers and a heavy emphasis on pop music and youth-centered messaging. Hateful w/ an Instagram charm.

Everyone is super friendly, and it's mostly genuine! These churches create a strong sense of community that makes people feel good, like they're part of a family. Like they belong. Newcomers show up, and they don't have to make an effort to connect. All the work is done for you.

And many of the folks a newcomer meets really do care. They want to know more about you. They want to help you. They want to connect. You join a small group (think bible study but very chill and loose). You do meals after service w/ folks. You go on trips. You make friends.

To people who are in pain or have been missing a sense of family, these churches feel great at first. They did for me. I didn't really have a family. My parents were abusive. I felt worthless and abandoned. These very nice people made me feel loved for the first time in my life.

I was really young and felt lonely. Overnight, I had a family. People my age would call to ask if I wanted to go hangout. Older married couples would take me out to dinner. A pastor there invited me to his house and nonchalantly slipped me $100. "Sewing blessings" it's called.

I put the $100 in the collection plate next Sunday because it felt uncomfortable. It felt weird. I honestly think he was trying to be nice and communicate that he and his wife cared, but I didn't ask for that. I didn't need it. And it was a bit overwhelming. Too much. Creepy.

Things are great in these churches until they're not. My first clue was on a young adults group hike in a nearby national park where one of the older members told me that LGBTQ people are sinful by nature, and I need to "cool it in this group" with any talk about LGBTQ rights.

The anti-LGBTQ, anti-woman, vaguely-racist, vaguely-xenophobic sentiments aren't done in sermons so much as in social settings. Offhand comments or jokes. Coded language or events with themes that may focus on gender roles. It's a neat trick: pastor keeps his hands clean.

Except when they don't! The head pastor of our church liked to slip-in thinly-veiled references supporting conservative politics. At times, he would start a sentence after saying a word like "lifestyles", shake his head and go "Nope, better not. Don't wanna cause trouble."

And again, it's such a fun trick. Technically, the pastor avoids saying something explicitly political or endorsing a party or being anti-LGBTQ or anti-woman but no rational adult in the audience misses the implication. The opinion was expressed, just not said out loud.

Gender roles are emphasized again and again. There are conferences held for women in which they're encouraged to "lift up their husbands" and encourage them as leaders. Women can have careers, sure--lawyers, doctors, whatever--as long as they let their husband lead the family.

The man is the leader. You will never in your life see a woman as head pastor of one of these churches unless she's, um, "co-leading" with a husband or her husband has died and she's more of a transitional figure. Women can be pastors, sure, as long as a man is in charge.

LGBTQ folks are welcome as long as they're not, you know, THEMSELVES in church settings. Don't be queer and bring your opposite-sex partner to a service, and if you do, don't kiss or introduce them as your partner. I have never known of an openly trans person in these settings.

The name of the game is "love the sinner, hate the sin", which is great for folks who are drawn to this community but aren't super down with homophobia, biphobia, transphobia, etc. It gives them a pass in their minds. The church doesn't HATE queer folks, just their "lifestyle".

Racism is quite common. A minefield of micro-aggressions. There are many people of color in these churches, and they have mastered the art of patience or maybe they're screaming internally. Either way, they're drawn to the community for other reasons and ignore racist comments.

I have heard white members of these churches say the phrase "those people" with the precise implication normally associated with it numerous times. Dog whistles galore, everything short of explicitly racist epithets.

The finances are always shady and more than likely illegal in some way. The pastors are always selling something. Sometimes, half the service is a pitch for tithing. Guest pastors have a book you need to buy. Etc. etc. etc.

On the day of the 2008 election, our entire church was sent a mass email by the pastoral staff with a link to a USA Today article about the election and a link to Obama's record supporting abortion. There was no editorial comment, but the message was clear.

Because the pastoral staff sent it to a mass email list instead of a proper listserv, I replied all with a long email outlining why it was inappropriate and probably illegal and that maybe the church staff shouldn't do that. This did not go over well.

When you challenge church leadership on clear lines of ethics, you are shunned. There is no formal decree or some other nonsense. You can still come to church. People just stop inviting you to things. They stop calling. Pastors will pretend you're not there when you show up.

There is no nuance or healthy transparency in churches like @Hillsong, which, by the way, is considered THE standard for these churches. Their model is widely imitated. Nice and inspiring and warm... until they're not. There is pressure to conform. It is a cult w/ good marketing.

I stayed at my old church for as long as I did because I thought I could be a positive influence. Instead, I was slowly cut out for questioning things. In the years since, I've randomly connected with many other former members. Same notes. The playbook is consistent.

Chris Pratt believes that this church family of his will always give him a sense of belonging. And since he's a cisgender, straight white dude, that's totally 100% true. But as we speak, he's ignoring the parts that are concerning. The anti-LGBTQ piece being the most glaring.

As we speak, Chris Pratt is reconciling the love for his church with his feelings of empathy for the folks in his life who are LGBTQ or Muslim or Atheist or who have any logical sense of the agency of women over their own bodies.

I guarantee Chris Pratt is being pressured to speak out against abortion and LGBTQ rights and all the rest. And he probably will in the same banal, neutered, faux-warm language used by churches like Hillsong. He will rationalize all of this in his own mind.

Without warning, Chris Pratt will be put in the uncomfortable position of alienating people that love him and that he loves--gay friends, women who really like having choices over their own bodies and being respected, etc.--and he'll try to make it all work. Spoiler: it will not.

Chris Pratt is happy in his new community, and these folks are his family. But the cracks will appear and doubts will linger, and he'll either make the choice to reexamine his new community in a new light or ignore the clear problems. Time will tell. Prayers up, Chris. /thread

 

Also, an article by Ellen Page calling out Chris Pratt for attending Hillsong Church

Ellen Page Calls Out Chris Pratt for Attending ‘Infamously Anti-LGBTQ’ Church

<snip>

Quote

“If you are in a position of power and you hate people, and you want to cause suffering to them — you go through the trouble, you spend your career trying to cause suffering. What do you think is going to happen?” Page said. “Kids are going to be abused, and they’re going to kill themselves. And people are going to be beaten on the street. I have traveled the world and I have met the most marginalized people you can meet. I am lucky to have this time and this privilege to say this. This needs to f—ing stop.”

 

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luv2laugh

There have been certain instances and general vibes over the past few years that make me wonder if Chris Pratt is fundie lite.

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Wine time!
Briefly
40 minutes ago, Howl said:

I thought we had a thread on Celebrity Christians! and their warm fuzzy uber hip churches.  Hillsong, Zoe and Homechurch were the churches referenced in this VOX article

The rise of the star-studded, Instagram-friendly evangelical church Chris Pratt, Justin Bieber, and the “cool” Christian celebrity.

All well, good and welcoming if you are straight and conservative and (overwhelmingly) white. I came across this twitter thread written by a trans person about their experience with exactly this type of church.  Everyone loves you as you are until they find out who you really are and then they don't. 

  Hide contents

 

Look, I don't know Chris Pratt, and I never will. I'm only familiar with his work onscreen. But I know how churches like @Hillsong work because I've attended a church like it. Let me take you on a tour of the culture. (thread)

Quick disclaimer: I'm a church-going Christian. I have my own personal relationship with God. I'm also a flaming liberal and a proud trans woman. I also am a big believer that people should mind their own goddamn business and keep religion out of government. So, with that...

Imagine that all the bad shit in Christianity remains but now it's dressed up in really soft, warm sermons and concert-like worship services with stage lights and fashionable preachers and a heavy emphasis on pop music and youth-centered messaging. Hateful w/ an Instagram charm.

Everyone is super friendly, and it's mostly genuine! These churches create a strong sense of community that makes people feel good, like they're part of a family. Like they belong. Newcomers show up, and they don't have to make an effort to connect. All the work is done for you.

And many of the folks a newcomer meets really do care. They want to know more about you. They want to help you. They want to connect. You join a small group (think bible study but very chill and loose). You do meals after service w/ folks. You go on trips. You make friends.

To people who are in pain or have been missing a sense of family, these churches feel great at first. They did for me. I didn't really have a family. My parents were abusive. I felt worthless and abandoned. These very nice people made me feel loved for the first time in my life.

I was really young and felt lonely. Overnight, I had a family. People my age would call to ask if I wanted to go hangout. Older married couples would take me out to dinner. A pastor there invited me to his house and nonchalantly slipped me $100. "Sewing blessings" it's called.

I put the $100 in the collection plate next Sunday because it felt uncomfortable. It felt weird. I honestly think he was trying to be nice and communicate that he and his wife cared, but I didn't ask for that. I didn't need it. And it was a bit overwhelming. Too much. Creepy.

Things are great in these churches until they're not. My first clue was on a young adults group hike in a nearby national park where one of the older members told me that LGBTQ people are sinful by nature, and I need to "cool it in this group" with any talk about LGBTQ rights.

The anti-LGBTQ, anti-woman, vaguely-racist, vaguely-xenophobic sentiments aren't done in sermons so much as in social settings. Offhand comments or jokes. Coded language or events with themes that may focus on gender roles. It's a neat trick: pastor keeps his hands clean.

Except when they don't! The head pastor of our church liked to slip-in thinly-veiled references supporting conservative politics. At times, he would start a sentence after saying a word like "lifestyles", shake his head and go "Nope, better not. Don't wanna cause trouble."

And again, it's such a fun trick. Technically, the pastor avoids saying something explicitly political or endorsing a party or being anti-LGBTQ or anti-woman but no rational adult in the audience misses the implication. The opinion was expressed, just not said out loud.

Gender roles are emphasized again and again. There are conferences held for women in which they're encouraged to "lift up their husbands" and encourage them as leaders. Women can have careers, sure--lawyers, doctors, whatever--as long as they let their husband lead the family.

The man is the leader. You will never in your life see a woman as head pastor of one of these churches unless she's, um, "co-leading" with a husband or her husband has died and she's more of a transitional figure. Women can be pastors, sure, as long as a man is in charge.

LGBTQ folks are welcome as long as they're not, you know, THEMSELVES in church settings. Don't be queer and bring your opposite-sex partner to a service, and if you do, don't kiss or introduce them as your partner. I have never known of an openly trans person in these settings.

The name of the game is "love the sinner, hate the sin", which is great for folks who are drawn to this community but aren't super down with homophobia, biphobia, transphobia, etc. It gives them a pass in their minds. The church doesn't HATE queer folks, just their "lifestyle".

Racism is quite common. A minefield of micro-aggressions. There are many people of color in these churches, and they have mastered the art of patience or maybe they're screaming internally. Either way, they're drawn to the community for other reasons and ignore racist comments.

I have heard white members of these churches say the phrase "those people" with the precise implication normally associated with it numerous times. Dog whistles galore, everything short of explicitly racist epithets.

The finances are always shady and more than likely illegal in some way. The pastors are always selling something. Sometimes, half the service is a pitch for tithing. Guest pastors have a book you need to buy. Etc. etc. etc.

On the day of the 2008 election, our entire church was sent a mass email by the pastoral staff with a link to a USA Today article about the election and a link to Obama's record supporting abortion. There was no editorial comment, but the message was clear.

Because the pastoral staff sent it to a mass email list instead of a proper listserv, I replied all with a long email outlining why it was inappropriate and probably illegal and that maybe the church staff shouldn't do that. This did not go over well.

When you challenge church leadership on clear lines of ethics, you are shunned. There is no formal decree or some other nonsense. You can still come to church. People just stop inviting you to things. They stop calling. Pastors will pretend you're not there when you show up.

There is no nuance or healthy transparency in churches like @Hillsong, which, by the way, is considered THE standard for these churches. Their model is widely imitated. Nice and inspiring and warm... until they're not. There is pressure to conform. It is a cult w/ good marketing.

I stayed at my old church for as long as I did because I thought I could be a positive influence. Instead, I was slowly cut out for questioning things. In the years since, I've randomly connected with many other former members. Same notes. The playbook is consistent.

Chris Pratt believes that this church family of his will always give him a sense of belonging. And since he's a cisgender, straight white dude, that's totally 100% true. But as we speak, he's ignoring the parts that are concerning. The anti-LGBTQ piece being the most glaring.

As we speak, Chris Pratt is reconciling the love for his church with his feelings of empathy for the folks in his life who are LGBTQ or Muslim or Atheist or who have any logical sense of the agency of women over their own bodies.

I guarantee Chris Pratt is being pressured to speak out against abortion and LGBTQ rights and all the rest. And he probably will in the same banal, neutered, faux-warm language used by churches like Hillsong. He will rationalize all of this in his own mind.

Without warning, Chris Pratt will be put in the uncomfortable position of alienating people that love him and that he loves--gay friends, women who really like having choices over their own bodies and being respected, etc.--and he'll try to make it all work. Spoiler: it will not.

Chris Pratt is happy in his new community, and these folks are his family. But the cracks will appear and doubts will linger, and he'll either make the choice to reexamine his new community in a new light or ignore the clear problems. Time will tell. Prayers up, Chris. /thread

 

Also, an article by Ellen Page calling out Chris Pratt for attending Hillsong Church

Ellen Page Calls Out Chris Pratt for Attending ‘Infamously Anti-LGBTQ’ Church

<snip>

 

So many of the things in the first quote sound very much like the first and second of the two Southern Baptist churches we attended during our brief and regrettable attempt at a fundy lifestyle.  It is often done very subtly in some churches, but there is so much bias and just plain hate. And it is scary.

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HarryPotterFan
1 hour ago, luv2laugh said:

There have been certain instances and general vibes over the past few years that make me wonder if Chris Pratt is fundie lite.

What other instances? This makes me sad, I love him as Andy Dwyer and Starlord. :(

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Terrie

To me, the model of being "in the spotlight" and being a Christian is Fred Rogers. Most people don't realize he was an ordained Presbyterian minister, but you can see the way he lived and breathed his faith and the values that went with it. It's the model of faith I grew up with, that faith was something you did every day, not something you talked about, and one I still greatly respect despite considering myself agnostic these days.

Pratt apparently was "saved" by and was involved with Jews for Jesus, and recently used an awards acceptance speech to tell the audience that God is real, they have souls, they should pray and accept Jesus (not explicit on the last, but pretty damned obvious). https://mashable.com/article/chris-pratt-mtv-award-9-rules/#.7n6ckGCKaqx To me, that crosses a line.

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formergothardite

I'm glad attention is getting brought to Chris Pratt joining a church that teaches hate. I did not know he had been involved with Jews for Jesus. Sounds like he is a regular evangelical. 

I'm sure he could find a church that doesn't hate on an entire group of people, so I am left wondering if he has some anti-gay beliefs.

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JermajestyDuggar

I know he’s engaged to Catherine Schwarzenegger and I guess I always thought most of the Kennedys were Catholic. But if he’s marrying her, she must not be catholic. 

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smittykins
11 hours ago, Terrie said:

To me, the model of being "in the spotlight" and being a Christian is Fred Rogers. Most people don't realize he was an ordained Presbyterian minister, but you can see the way he lived and breathed his faith and the values that went with it. It's the model of faith I grew up with, that faith was something you did every day, not something you talked about, and one I still greatly respect despite considering myself agnostic these days.

Pratt apparently was "saved" by and was involved with Jews for Jesus, and recently used an awards acceptance speech to tell the audience that God is real, they have souls, they should pray and accept Jesus (not explicit on the last, but pretty damned obvious). https://mashable.com/article/chris-pratt-mtv-award-9-rules/#.7n6ckGCKaqx To me, that crosses a line.

I know Mr. Rogers got flack from some fundegelicals for refusing to publicly denounce LBGTQ people.

Edited by smittykins
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Palimpsest

Well, whichever Jew for Jesus originally saved Chris Pratt, he's now Hillsong, so he'll learn anti-gay beliefs if he didn't have them before. 

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

Sounds like he is a regular evangelical. 

So he is now singing along with hipster pastor Chad Veach. http://zoechurch.org/.   It is a Hillsong off-shoot so not quite regular evangelical.

Hillsong.  Started by the unlamented child abuser Frank Houston and his son Brian Houston, who lied and covered up for him.  

Also famous for Gay Conversion Therapy, although they try to keep that under cover these days.

Hillsong collects celebrities, much like $cientology.  They must have taken advice from L.Ron.  Both Catherine and Patrick Schwarzenegger are connected, along with Bono, Bieber, and assorted Kardashians.

https://hornet.com/stories/hillsong-celebrities/ 

 

 

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Howl
2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I'm sure he could find a church that doesn't hate on an entire group of people, so I am left wondering if he has some anti-gay beliefs.

<snip> from one of the links I posted above addressing how the author thinks Chris Pratt beliefs will play out as he comes under increasing pressure from his warm fuzzy groovy hip new church community to use his celebrity to denounce gay people and anyone else not like them. 

Spoiler

Chris Pratt believes that this church family of his will always give him a sense of belonging. And since he's a cisgender, straight white dude, that's totally 100% true. But as we speak, he's ignoring the parts that are concerning. The anti-LGBTQ piece being the most glaring.

As we speak, Chris Pratt is reconciling the love for his church with his feelings of empathy for the folks in his life who are LGBTQ or Muslim or Atheist or who have any logical sense of the agency of women over their own bodies.

I guarantee Chris Pratt is being pressured to speak out against abortion and LGBTQ rights and all the rest. And he probably will in the same banal, neutered, faux-warm language used by churches like Hillsong. He will rationalize all of this in his own mind.

Without warning, Chris Pratt will be put in the uncomfortable position of alienating people that love him and that he loves--gay friends, women who really like having choices over their own bodies and being respected, etc.--and he'll try to make it all work. Spoiler: it will not.

Chris Pratt is happy in his new community, and these folks are his family. But the cracks will appear and doubts will linger, and he'll either make the choice to reexamine his new community in a new light or ignore the clear problems. Time will tell. Prayers up, Chris. /thread

 

Edited by Howl
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Terrie
51 minutes ago, smittykins said:

I know Mr. Rogers got flack from some fundegelicals for refusing to publicly denounce LBGTQ people.

Not shocked, on either side. The man bled decency in a way few people do. He was a rare person of faith who had a very solid, foundational sense of himself and his beliefs, so had no need to posture about it, conform to what others want, or pressure people about it.

Edited by Terrie
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apple1
11 minutes ago, Terrie said:

Not shocked, on either side. The man bled decency in a way few people do. He was a rare person of faith who had a very solid, foundational sense of himself and his beliefs, so had no need to posture about it, conform to what others want, or pressure people about it.

As (I think) FJers know who have read my posts over time, I self-identify as a Christian. I hope I express my faith just a fraction as well as did Fred Rogers.

As for the super-hip, Hillsong or similar wannabe churches -- I hate it. (Admittedly, Hillsong has had some worship music that I still like). However - as even my daughter says, church is not supposed to be a rock concert - or a big, produced, show. I hate the "fakey" feel. I hate the going after particular groups of people while minimizing or excluding others - and those in the excluded group are much more numerous than first appears. I hate the partially-masked political opinions.

I feel like, as a self-identified Christian, I should somehow apologize for those people. It's not my Christianity. For all these reasons, and some more, my Christianity is currently a private thing, and I admit that I currently do not attend formal services. (And it makes me sad).

I hope this wasn't too off-topic.

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danvillebelle
18 minutes ago, apple1 said:

I feel like, as a self-identified Christian, I should somehow apologize for those people. It's not my Christianity. For all these reasons, and some more, my Christianity is currently a private thing, and I admit that I currently do not attend formal services. (And it makes me sad).

I hope this wasn't too off-topic.

I'm right there with you.  I can't find a church that suits so I'm just doin' my own thing at the moment.

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JermajestyDuggar
52 minutes ago, apple1 said:

As (I think) FJers know who have read my posts over time, I self-identify as a Christian. I hope I express my faith just a fraction as well as did Fred Rogers.

As for the super-hip, Hillsong or similar wannabe churches -- I hate it. (Admittedly, Hillsong has had some worship music that I still like). However - as even my daughter says, church is not supposed to be a rock concert - or a big, produced, show. I hate the "fakey" feel. I hate the going after particular groups of people while minimizing or excluding others - and those in the excluded group are much more numerous than first appears. I hate the partially-masked political opinions.

I feel like, as a self-identified Christian, I should somehow apologize for those people. It's not my Christianity. For all these reasons, and some more, my Christianity is currently a private thing, and I admit that I currently do not attend formal services. (And it makes me sad).

I hope this wasn't too off-topic.

As an ex Christian, I truly don’t care how people worship as long as it isn’t hurting anyone. People can worship naked in a church made out of cream puffs for all I care. But once they start hating on people for their sexuality, manner of dress, religion, job, marriage, etc then I’m going to get upset. If they want to worship like a cool kids concert, that’s fine. I just don’t like how they use their “cool outward appearance” to suck people in to their church of hate. If they weren’t doing that, they could be the most hipster bunch of instagram influencers that ever hit Southern California and I wouldn’t give a single fuck.

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PennySycamore

Our PBS station aired a documentary Won't You Be My Neighbor? about Fred Rogers on Saturday evening.  When the documentary got to Fred's death,  I was appalled to see the Phelps clan protesting.  How absolutely vile of them!  

Francois Clemens (Officer Clemens) is gay and that was okay by Fred.  

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Pecansforeveryone

I will say Hill-song esque churches are quickly becoming a dime a dozen/the "model" for many of these independent, non-denominational churches springing up. Hill-song is the type of church we are likely to see some of the Duggars and Bates drift into long before they could ever dream of "breaking free." Hill-song and churches like it are the reason some of us say don't get distracted by frumpers, drinking, and dancing. These are the fundies i grew up with. 

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caitrona

We've always referred to the Hillsong-adjacent church near me as "Six Flags over Jesus".  They rent one of the major concert venues here for Easter services.  Their children's area in the church building is like a fast food play space with climbing tubes/ball pit/slides/etc., there's a coffee shop in the lobby, and if you put your kid in child care for services, if something happens where they need you there's a scrolling screen in the main chapel that "pages" you to go get them.  It's *ridiculous*.  

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Palimpsest
25 minutes ago, caitrona said:

if you put your kid in child care for services, if something happens where they need you there's a scrolling screen in the main chapel that "pages" you to go get them.

What?  They are not Family Integrated?  They are bound for hell fire.

31 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I will say Hill-song esque churches are quickly becoming a dime a dozen/the "model" for many of these independent, non-denominational churches springing up. Hill-song is the type of church we are likely to see some of the Duggars and Bates drift into long before they could ever dream of "breaking free." Hill-song and churches like it are the reason some of us say don't get distracted by frumpers, drinking, and dancing. These are the fundies i grew up with. 

Like Hillsong, an awful lot of them seem to be very Prosperity Gospel orientated, which is definitely not mainstream evangelical thinking. 

They tend to be revivalist and charismatic, and churches like Hillsong do have Pentecostal and Charismatic roots.  But not even all Pentecostal or Charismatic Christians approve of Prosperity Theology. 

If you follow Jesus you will have wealth because salvation will spare you the "sin" of poverty.  I am at a complete loss as to how they justify Prosperity Gospel scripturally.  Jesus did not preach it.  John 10:10 says:  "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."  Life not worldly goods.  

So I suppose they cherry pick and rely on the OT to justify it.

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Pecansforeveryone

I agree, @Palimpsest about Hill-song specially being both too Charismatic and too Prosperity Gospel oriented for them. Whatever the Reformed Baptist/Southern Baptist version of "hipster, contemporary" is more likely. Jeremy Cuomo is quite literally "in love" with John Macarthur who strongly disapproves of both Prosperity Gospel and the Charismatic movement. A number of years ago, he wrote a book called Charismatic Chaos.  

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Palimpsest
3 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

Jeremy Cuomo

Autocorrect strikes again!  Jeremy Vuolo. :)

Yes, MacArthur and John Piper are very anti-Prosperity Gospel.  But then I'm sure they are very jealous of Joel Osteen.  

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mountaineer
2 hours ago, caitrona said:

We've always referred to the Hillsong-adjacent church near me as "Six Flags over Jesus". 

We call ours "Fort God."

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Meh
acheronbeach

I'm not surprised that this sort of shallow church appeals to Chris Pratt.  He's pretty to look at but when he speaks he doesn't come across as an intellectual powerhouse. 

Surely someone else has read this solved blind item about him being a halfwit?  

https://blindgossip.com/dating-a-manchild/

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NachosFlandersStyle

He just put out this statement:

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/chris-pratt-slams-ellen-pages-claim-that-his-church-is-anti-lgbtq/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

It sounds like he is making the assumption that his church is welcoming based on the fact that he is welcome there as a divorced person, but I get the feeling he hasn't spoken with anyone who has that experience from an LGBT perspective. It's nice that he is personally disavowing homophobia but he is also brushing aside legitimate concerns simply because he hasn't witnessed anything himself, which is not a good look.

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Wine time!
Briefly
8 hours ago, apple1 said:

As (I think) FJers know who have read my posts over time, I self-identify as a Christian. I hope I express my faith just a fraction as well as did Fred Rogers.

As for the super-hip, Hillsong or similar wannabe churches -- I hate it. (Admittedly, Hillsong has had some worship music that I still like). However - as even my daughter says, church is not supposed to be a rock concert - or a big, produced, show. I hate the "fakey" feel. I hate the going after particular groups of people while minimizing or excluding others - and those in the excluded group are much more numerous than first appears. I hate the partially-masked political opinions.

I feel like, as a self-identified Christian, I should somehow apologize for those people. It's not my Christianity. For all these reasons, and some more, my Christianity is currently a private thing, and I admit that I currently do not attend formal services. (And it makes me sad).

I hope this wasn't too off-topic.

I know exactly how you feel.  I am Christian and I find myself going out of my way to make sure I'm not identified as being part of the hateful, bigoted, anti-everything faction that calls itself Christian.  Anyone can claim to be anything, but it's the actions that show what they really are.  Like Mr. Rogers, there was no doubt about his essential goodness.  He lived his faith and he embodied love and caring.

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Letizia
10 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I know he’s engaged to Catherine Schwarzenegger and I guess I always thought most of the Kennedys were Catholic. But if he’s marrying her, she must not be catholic. 

She was raised Catholic and her mother has long been heavily involved with St.Monica Catholic Church. Katherine has been going to non-denominational churches for a few years though. 

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