YLCF: "Men... please date your daughters." *cough*

[silvia]

ylcf.org/2011/06/fathers-and-daughters/

Just when I think there's hope for ylcf.org (that semi-positive review of Quivering Daughters), they come out with this creepy purity ball-type stuff. I agree that girls learn important values from their fathers, but why should they have to go out on "dates" with their dads in order to spend quality time with them? The whole dad-as-boyfriend-proxy thing (the dad says to this girl, "I wanted you to get your affirmation from me and not look for it elsewhere") is just weird. Dads should be dads, not practice suitors.

Another gem: "Women seek approval, acceptance and worth from men. Since the fall, it’s almost an ingrained trait in us. If we don’t get it in a healthy way from our dads (and ultimately the Lord) we will turn to other men (and boys!) to get it or even rebel to the point of lesbianism and desiring that approval from other women." Ohhhh... kay... The idiocy, it burns.

[liveonradio]

Hee, I ran over here to see if someone had already posted this... :mrgreen: It's beyond creepy. "Nowhere on earth do I find a place which holds more physical security and peace than in the arms of my dad" - eeeeewww, that line just squicks me out whichever way I try to turn it.

And she's 24. :shock:

[synchroswimr]

Ah. *blink* huh.

So my lesbian friend who has a great (and entirely healthy) relationship with her dad... Oh. Must be because she's Jewish? If she were to find Jesus, she would realize that her 17 year relationship with her partner was all just because she needs acceptance from Jesus. Huh. I'll let her know.

Now that I think about it, I have two Jewish friends who are not heterosexual (the other is bi, but her longest relationship was with a woman, 12 years). Guess they're right. *eye roll*

[silvia]

She's 24?! Whoa... I guess I must have missed that. I was thinking she was maybe 17 or 18.

[liveonradio]

She's 24?! Whoa... I guess I must have missed that. I was thinking she was maybe 17 or 18.

Yup. Doesn't exactly bode well for any future courtship that she thinks "seeking approval" from Papa is more important than... idk, trying to form an adult relationship with a non-family member? :?

[themadapple]

That stuff never fails to squick me out. Sure, I have plenty of good memories of spending quality time with my dad - going to the park, concerts and plays, swimming, ice skating, etc. But that's just what it is - men being good fathers and taking part in their daughters lives. Not this sort of planned out demonstration, "protector of the heart" and, as you say, proxy boyfriend business. It's just pretty damn warped if you ask me.

[Petals]

As soon as I finished reading, I rushed over here to discuss. Glad to know y'all were already on it!

Men, if you’re reading this, please date your daughters...Don’t have daughters? Little sisters, nieces, cousins and the single mother’s daughter down the road all need you.

Men, DO NOT "date" your daughters, and ESPECIALLY DO NOT "date" young women who are not your daughters. Creepy creepy creepy creepy creepy creepy creepy creepy...

If we don’t get it in a healthy way from our dads (and ultimately the Lord) we will turn to other men (and boys!) to get it or even rebel to the point of lesbianism and desiring that approval from other women.

Fundie articles seem to be split pretty evenly between those who believe that women seek approval from other women, and those who believe that women seek approval from men. It's hilarious how much this sort of talk goes on, and there's absolutely nothing to back up the claims. Also, this woman obviously has no idea what lesbianism means. I...don't...even.

My dad “dated†me all through high school...

Ew. Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Girls, I know it’s not always easy to be friends with your dad, and maybe you don’t have a dad that would ever “date†you, but your dad needs your affirmation as much as you need his.

Huh? I thought Daddy was the big protector/Jesus stand-in.

Dads will always fail you.

This sentence makes me so sad!

This article just breaks my heart because I used to love love love the YLCF. Gretchen, Lanier and Natalie are truly excellent writers! The YLCF used to be a trove of pieces about appreciation for the beauty of creation, the joys of family and home, and Christian inspiration. Now it seems like all the YLCF has to publish are badly-written, self-flagellating, quasi-poetic pieces about being a stay-at-home daughter. I'm not sure who's editing nowadays, but this article never would have made it on a couple of years ago. It seems to be purposefully inflammatory, which is something the YLCF always avoided. It's badly written and illogical.

Even thought I'm not sure I'm a Christian anymore, I still really appreciate what the YLCF used to be. I hope that someday it can be filled again with beautiful, inspirational writing. But I'm not getting my hopes up.

[keeks21]

Girls, Girls, Girls seriously? Did you read the post before you hit publish?

I want to send these girls links of all the blogs from former SAHD who had dysfunctional marriages ending in divorce or breaking out of the Fundie cycle.

[failsafe]

While I do believe it's true that having a healthy relationship with your father is ideal, and yes, can be helpful when you grow up and are seeking an opposite sex mate (ie, if your dad is a good man, you've had an example through your whole life of "this is a good man" you are probably going to want/recognize that when it comes to choosing your own spouse), I find it creepy to call them "dates."

My dad was awesome - we did father-daughter retreats at the Y (through a, in retrospect, super racist organization called Indian Princesses, where dads were the "chiefs" and daughters were the "tribe members" and people greeted each other by saying "How How"), he took each of us on a trip on our 13th birthday anywhere we wanted to go in the world, just us and him, and at the end of it, wrote us a letter about his hopes and dreams for us, what values he hoped to instill in us, how happy and fulfilled he wanted us to be, etc, he would take us out on little trips without our mom (usually to get ice cream or some other forbidden treat) that he called "secret missions," he is STILL very patient and understanding if I call him hysterical because my dog had to go to the emergency vet or I got dumped or whatever - we are, I think, quite close and I think that has made me more aware of what I want in a mate - yeah I DO want a guy like my dad, because my dad is awesome! But it wasn't like we were hanging out for the express purpose of keeping my heart pure or going on dates or teaching me about men or whatever - we were just hanging out because he's my dad and that's what dads do.

[Sola]

If find the concept of Daddy/Daughter dating as creepy to the point of downright nasty. It is so inappropriate.

My daughter spends 1 to 1 time with her dad, she spends it with me too (and actually we have regular Mum and Lyd special days where we do girly stuff) and we spend time the four of us as a family. But Daddy/Daughter dating? It makes me retch just to think about it.

[DistantStar]

I love my dad more than I can possibly say. I miss him more than I can possibly say. I can also safely say that he'd never have been able to wrap his mind around the idea of owning me. He was an actual good man and a great dad who wanted his children to grow up and fly away and be themselves.

I have heard of father/daughter outings being called "dates" in a totally innocent context, but combining that with fundie ideas of ownership...ewwwwww!

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

"Men, if you’re reading this, please date your daughters...Don’t have daughters? Little sisters, nieces, cousins and the single mother’s daughter down the road all need you."

Well I don't know about you all, but if I were a single mom with a daughter, I would totes let the creepy fundie dad from down the road take her on "dates." :::shudder:::

[browngrl]

My dad is awesome. Over the years we have spent tons of time doing things together. He has been one of my greatest supporters. In fact he once told me that he became a feminist the day I was born. He decided that it was his job to see that each of his daughters had every opportunity they wanted and to make sure they had the strength and independence to reach their goals. But never once have we gone on a "date". Having a great dad did not put me off dating other men.

"Dating" your dad sounds like incest to me. Reading that article just made me shudder. I pity her future husband.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

Since the inception of the whole 'purity ball' dating your dad thing, I have often wondered how many pedophiles have used this as an excuse to molest/rape thier daughters... I would think this would be a perfect atmosphere for grooming and carrying on whatever he wanted, since these girls worship their daddies and don't question ANYTHING he does/says.

[silvia]

Since the inception of the whole 'purity ball' dating your dad thing, I have often wondered how many pedophiles have used this as an excuse to molest/rape thier daughters... I would think this would be a perfect atmosphere for grooming and carrying on whatever he wanted, since these girls worship their daddies and don't question ANYTHING he does/says.

This!

[Sweetpea1]

1. Ewwwwwwwwwwww

2. Just plain wrong. Men, be a FATHER to your daughters. You do not date them.

[kpmom]

What is wrong with just spending time with your daughter, just like you do your sons? Throw a baseball around, take them to Home Depot with you, talk to them at the dinner table, read to them. Why does it have to be these purity ball "date" things?

And agree 110% with the poster who said these can be excuses for men who have tendencies toward sexual abuse of their daughters. Especially using the language (dating, etc) they are using.

[emmyfair]

I mentioned daddy daughter "dating" to my husband and he looked like he was going to puke. He says that's emotional incest and social services should be involved ... in the case of the 24 year old, well, she needs a whole lot of therapy and a life... so sad.

[silvia]

Apparently this was originally a post from the writer's own blog: http://katieschronicals.blogspotDOTcom/ ... hters.html . Ummm, is it just me, or is she sitting on her dad's lap -- as an ADULT -- in the accompanying picture?! At least YLCF had the sense to publish a different photo with the piece.

[bananacat]

So men don't want or need approval from anyone else? Why do they even bother to take showers if it's only the silly wimminz who desire outside approval?

[buddingmedievalist]

I mean, when I was in middle school and even into high school, my dad would take me out on "dates"--he'd take me to a bookstore or a coffee shop and we'd sit and talk about whatever I wanted to discuss. He always did that because while my brothers were and are really into Boy Scouts and he goes camping with them, I didn't participate in group activities like that (being the introvert that I am, large groups freaked me out as a kid). He just always wanted me to know that he was there to listen and cared as much about me as he did my brothers. So that's what "dad dates" make me think of.

The YLCF version, though, is just squicky and makes me feel like I need to find a new term for my precious memories

[Cassandra]

Blergh. Thats all I have to say about daddy dates.

Yup. Doesn't exactly bode well for any future courtship that she thinks "seeking approval" from Papa is more important than... idk, trying to form an adult relationship with a non-family member? :?

I could always tell the homeschooled kids in my community from the non-home schoolers because of their socialization. While they weren't socially inept they always came off as a little weird. I did a lot of community theatre and during the meet and greets with a new cast you could always pick them out, and I think part of the reason was because they had few friends and ALWAYS talked about their family. That was pretty much the only area of discussion.

[Antigone]

Can I just say holy batman? This kind of thing really sets off my creep meter. I loved the times I shared with my dad but no way in hell were they "dates". Hubby does a great job with the rugrat, and he tries to have outings with her. There is no way in hell he'd go on a "date" - maybe daddy/daughter night or something, but that is the most I think he'd even call (or consider) it...

Sorry but if someone goes on a date with their father, and acts like it is an actual date, I consider them batshit crazy, and thank them for contributing to our income :) I know that might sound kind of mean but I'm glad there are fruitcakes out there, I like having money to buy my groceries with.

I admit I am kind of sad though, since it seems they want to limit their life experiences by doing stuff like that :( and whomever brought up the pedo thing- I actually think that is something interesting that those people *should* consider, but don't seem to. Do they even realize the potential for that to happen, anyway?...

[PharmDMommy]

The best memories I have from living at home where the random things my dad and I did. The planned stuff was fun, but my dad is super type A rigid and when he could be spontaneous it was really a great time for us to bond. When I was away at pharmacy school, he would always call to check in and make sure I was studying and he would have my Mom send me money during exams so that I could cut back on my part-time job ( which was special to me because I didn't have to ask, he just wanted to make sure it was easier on me). When I had horrible morning sickness and was getting iv fluids and studying for my boards it was his idea for my mom to take a few days off and come stay with me so she could make sure I was eating and drinking and to take care of things so I could focus on my exam. Those little things are what makes my dad great, not him taking me out on a "date". That is so creepy... My dad takes my mom on dates, not his daughter. And isn't going on dates a no no in fundie world.

BTW any dad can take his daughter out for a few hours, it does not mean they have a solid relationship. Most likely those "dates" feel very forced and un-natural.

[Bookworm89]

I had "dates" with my dad when I visited him in the summers (I was 12-14 when they happened) but they weren't in the context of the fundy type (sort of). We would get dressed up and he would open the car door for me and other "gentleman" things. It was a little weird (I mainly grew up till I was 16 with my mom and step-dad and my step dad never did anything like dates, we would just hang out like a parent child should). My dad always said he was teaching me what a "real" man should do on a date. I have a hit and miss relationship with my dad at the time so it was awkward but also nice because it was about the only time he would just sit and listen to me. When I went to live permently with him when I was 16 we never had "dates" (which I am soo thankful for since I was already messed up and since he was the exact opposite of my mom that would have really freaked me out). Now if my dad had been as fundy as he is now, that context would have fit and that just freaks me out thinking of it.