Is a marriage being arranged for Bria Crawford?

[gilora]

You want to see the level of intellect potential suitors would be getting? Read her latest article for Visionary Womanhood:

http://www.visionarywomanhood.com/imagi ... at-part-3/

You could have a better conversation with a flowerpot.

I hope to one day "ooze quality and wisdom." :drool:

[VodouDoll]

"The Canterbury Tales" is on Bria's list of must-reads. Obviously, she hasn't read it. Think "Wife of Bath."

For Whom the Bell Tolls too. Don't get me wrong, it's an amazing book, but all that drinking and swearing and premarital sex! I'm puzzled that Kelly allowed it. Ten dollars says she hasn't read it herself, or she wouldn't have let Bria.

[Effie]

I don't get the impression that potential suitors are all that concerned about intellectual conversation with their eventual mates. Carnal conversation, yes ma'am! But not the other.

;)

Actually I think Bria is quite "intelligent" for a young fundie. Okay, her critical thinking is not much to talk about. She takes everything her mum says for absolute truth. Well, she writes well. She is interested in "science" as she has said herself, although science means God's creation in her case. Well, I wonder though how many of her thoughts are original thoughts. Can she think for herself? I don't know. She sounds a bit like a Mini-Kelly when she writes. Maybe I just see her as an intelligent young woman, because I want her to be one. I think she has the potential in her to be more than a robot, but she doesn't know how to be more.

She is scared of things which are different for her not Godly and honorable, because they might lead her to sway to the world's ways (whatever that means). "Love Story" by Taylor Swift is a very immoral song, you know. Also it's a sin to listen to Celine Dion because Celine is not always modest. "It is human nature to like ungodly things. And only with God's help can we overcome this one of hundreds of faults."

[Kitty]

You want to see the level of intellect potential suitors would be getting? Read her latest article for Visionary Womanhood:

http://www.visionarywomanhood.com/imagi ... at-part-3/

You could have a better conversation with a flowerpot.

I think most fundy boys would rather marry the flowerpot.

[JesusFightClub]

I don't see intelligence in Bria's posts or blog. The only thing you can say about them is that she can spell.

The reviews are on the level a reasonably bright 8 year old could achieve. She has no concept of critical thinking, of analysing texts, of setting books in the historical context in which they are written, of influences from other writers...

And the idea one should only read "wholesome" books is so stupid there are no words. Read everything and anything, Bria! Never stop! If you agree with it, find out why. If you don't, find out why. If it relaxes you, that's OK!

Sheesh, the anti intellectualism of the fundies depresses me. I'm far from being a great brain. The last IQ test I took put me at 82. So it's even sadder to think what fundie kids like Bria could achieve were it not for SOTDRT.

[aggythenostic]

Bria is a fine example of intense brainwashing. She squashes every thought in her head that's 'troublesome.' Kelly has hinted that one of her kids has a bit of PTSD from the tornado [although she calls it something bullshit, it sounds like PTSD to me], and I think it's Bria. So we should all pray for her, y'all. God forbid she should see an actual therapist! That would cost over five chicken breasts, or meals for the family for a month!

There were pictures of Bria on her old blog running around England with a Fundie family, taking care of their baby. She was wearing denim skirts to her ankles. She was basically a slave. It was incredibly depressing. I just wanted to tell her to make a run for it, while she could.

[bananacat]

I wonder if Bria's bio dad even knows that she exists. Kelly seems like the type to just never tell the man so she doesn't have to share her property with some other lifestyle.

I mean, for children who don't their dad or are adopted, it's really great if they can be satisfied with never knowing. But most people are at least curious and want to meet at least once, and most fathers would also like to meet their kid. Usually deadbeat dads don't start avoiding their kid until it's a few months or years in and they realize that it's much harder and more expensive than they expected. If they've never met, my bet is that her dad doesn't even know, or possible that Kelly doesn't know who the dad is.

It's kind of sad though how common this theme is in fundieland. The Jeub mother (whose name I can't remember) and Vyckie from NLQ also had a child out of wedlock, and then jumped on the crazy train to try to make up for it.

[Effie]

Well, I think I have always wanted her do more with her life and dare to make her own choices. :( She is the first fundie-blog I ever found (before Kelly's).

Is she happy? If she doesn't know about much else than the life she is living, then I think it will be easier for her to maintain sanity and happiness. So it's probably "good" that she doesn't have more experience of the real world. If she did, she might be really miserable, especially if she is not "allowed" to make her own choices in life.

Edit. because I write like I'm drunk today (which I'm not).

[Angri-la]

koolaid klatsches

This made me DIE with laughter.

Mommy Dearest sure has the crazy eyes in that photo!

[aerynoctober]

I want to offer a differing opinion to most of what's been expressed on this thread.

I was a trapped 17 year old fundie girl, and I spouted the party line with great effectiveness and flair, because it made my life easier. No one knows how Bria truly feels about her family, the Christian religion, or anything else -- because, at her age and with her limited experience in the world, even SHE doesn't know. In my view, piling-on a minor who is earning parental approval by parroting their beliefs is at best unkind and at worst a deterrent to her ever questioning said beliefs.

I have work to do this weekend for which I get paid, so I won't likely be back to respond if anyone takes issue with me, nor am I trying to start a debate. I just want a differing opinion on the record in case Bria does read this. Bria, every non-Christian in the world isn't unkind, and this atheist doesn't agree with you being pilloried here.

[Witsec1]

Oh, I don't think that the poor quality of Bria's writing and her cavalier attitude toward copyright reflect badly on Bria. I think she is capable of much better. But the people who should be helping her reach her potential and find her own voice, are instead subjecting her to the cruelty of lowered expectations.

[Guest Anonymous]

Oh, I don't think that the poor quality of Bria's writing and her cavalier attitude toward copyright reflect badly on Bria. I think she is capable of much better. But the people who should be helping her reach her potential and find her own voice, are instead subjecting her to the cruelty of lowered expectations.

THIS, squared.

[Rosa]

On the other hand, this really made me think about the distinction we make between kids and parents - is she fair game as soon as she's 18? When she gets married? Has her first baby?

I can't think of any point in her life, unless she breaks out and does something on her own (not necessarily a flight for freedom, but SOMETHING - reads a book she chose herself, takes a class, marries and moves AWAY from her and his parents, anything) that would make me think a child raised this way has become a functional adult.

But, running into that article without knowing she was a SAHD...I would have snarked the hell out of it. It's idiotic. She doesn't mention the books she pulls from in her own bio, even (and Austen would be the only woman on the list if she included her). Once she's putting herself out there for public consumption, where's the line?

[JesusFightClub]

On the other hand, this really made me think about the distinction we make between kids and parents - is she fair game as soon as she's 18? When she gets married? Has her first baby?

I can't think of any point in her life, unless she breaks out and does something on her own (not necessarily a flight for freedom, but SOMETHING - reads a book she chose herself, takes a class, marries and moves AWAY from her and his parents, anything) that would make me think a child raised this way has become a functional adult.

But, running into that article without knowing she was a SAHD...I would have snarked the hell out of it. It's idiotic. She doesn't mention the books she pulls from in her own bio, even (and Austen would be the only woman on the list if she included her). Once she's putting herself out there for public consumption, where's the line?

Yeah, this. She is putting this crappy stuff out there and she's pretty much a grown woman. If she was a small child I would agree mockery is inappropriate. But she's practically an adult and she is attempting to advise adults. If she had her 18th birthday tomorrow and we held off snarking for one day, would the people saying we are being mean to a child then be OK with it?

[aerynoctober]

Yeah, this. She is putting this crappy stuff out there and she's pretty much a grown woman. If she was a small child I would agree mockery is inappropriate. But she's practically an adult and she is attempting to advise adults. If she had her 18th birthday tomorrow and we held off snarking for one day, would the people saying we are being mean to a child then be OK with it?

If it is "crappy" -- and as a former teacher, I consider it average, not "crappy," she would not be the best writer in any high school class I taught but hardly the worst -- it is because she has been cheated out of a good education, which is hardly her fault. Mocking an adult who had a crappy education but, as an adult, had the choice to go get educated if they chose to do so is very different from mocking a child. Would you mock a child (or even a 17 year old) whose teeth fell out because they never got to see a dentist due to their parents' choices?

As to the "line" -- just about every line drawn between childhood and adulthood for any reason is arbitrary. The drinking age, the voting age, age of consent laws, the older age required to rent a car or run for Congress. An appropriate line, in my view, is to mock adults only, not children. In her jurisdiction, the age of majority until which her parents have legal control over her is 19. When she turns 19, though I will still consider it unkind and inappropriate (since she can hardly remedy her education overnight) a case can no longer be reasonably made that it is immoral.

[masagoroll]

I don't think Bria is being "pilloried" here, geez. Some people just said she was not a good writer and didn't seem super-smart. Those things are kind of rude/critical, but they are not pillorying someone altogether as a horrible person.

Also, not everyone on this board is an atheist, so if she did somehow read this thread and thought it meant "Atheists are mean," that would be misguided. We just don't like fundamentalism!

I definitely see what you mean, though, aerynoctober. Bria is still very much under the control of her parents and we don't know her true feelings or potential.

I admire the fact that she does care about books and reading and read some "secular" and scholarly things. That speaks well of her.

[Austin]

If it is "crappy" -- and as a former teacher, I consider it average, not "crappy," she would not be the best writer in any high school class I taught but hardly the worst -- it is because she has been cheated out of a good education, which is hardly her fault. Mocking an adult who had a crappy education but, as an adult, had the choice to go get educated if they chose to do so is very different from mocking a child. Would you mock a child (or even a 17 year old) whose teeth fell out because they never got to see a dentist due to their parents' choices?

As to the "line" -- just about every line drawn between childhood and adulthood for any reason is arbitrary. The drinking age, the voting age, age of consent laws, the older age required to rent a car or run for Congress. An appropriate line, in my view, is to mock adults only, not children. In her jurisdiction, the age of majority until which her parents have legal control over her is 19. When she turns 19, though I will still consider it unkind and inappropriate (since she can hardly remedy her education overnight) a case can no longer be reasonably made that it is immoral.

I just want to say first that Bria Crawford does not interest me in the least, so I have no skin in this game other than to remind that this is a snark board, the young woman is nearly 18 years old and is attempting to advise adults. Her teeth falling out, which would not be the result of any intentional action on her part, is hardly analogous to her writing crappy or obnoxious things. I don't personally care to snark on children, but others do make those very good points, and believe that Bria has thrown down the gauntlet, so to speak, and she appears to have enough agency to know exactly what is on her mind.

As for 18 or 19 or whatever in her "jurisdiction", 18 is known across the USA to be the age when one can vote, join the military, etc., and is generally considered the age of majority. FJers cannot be expected to know that in this one little area, the age where she is no longer under her parents control is 19, not 18. It sounds like your problem is that you consider the snarking on her writing to be unkind and immoral in any circumstance re: this issue. That is your subjective opinion and not an objective fact.

I also do not agree with the characterization of Bria being "pilloried".

Hand-slapping does not work here. It is better, IMO, to assert what you think is good about her writing or your POV regarding whatever is being discusssed than to try to tell others what is moral/immoral or kind/unkind.

JMO.

[Rosa]

We *do* have a pretty strong tradition of not going after the kids, though.

I just wonder about how we're going to define it - wasn't the Life In a Shoe Lady raised this way and married off young? I do have sympathy for the people in that situation, but in the larger sense it doesn't absolve them of their behavior - and we don't always know the background of these idiot bloggers. I feel free to ridicule Jack Chick without knowing if he was beaten and brainwashed into his beliefs.

I think a lot of these women, if I knew them in person, I would shrug off their idiocy and assume they weren't expressing any original thoughts or able to think through their positions. You know? it's pretty rude but I just can't think of a person who's never been given or taken any independence as a regular adult.

[aerynoctober]

Austin: this board is full of women who presume the intelligence, insight, and wisdom to tell other people that they are living their lives in a less than ideal way. Surely simple google searches on adulthood is not beyond the collective grasp. If it were a 17 year old in a country where 17 is legal adulthood, I would not have said a word.

As to hand-slapping, as I said, I simply wanted it on the record that someone doesn't agree with mocking a minor who lives in a VERY restricted situation spouting the party line of the people with whom she is stuck 24/7. In the highly likely event that she reads this thread, I want her to know that there's one non-Christian adult who doesn't think that what's being said about her here is fair.

She has had exactly as much opportunity to get a good education as a 17 year old whose parents refused to allow them to see a dentist has had to keep their teeth healthy. And if she were putting up a blog showing pictures of her gap-toothed smile and talking about how much better and easier life is while saving on toothpaste and floss, most of us would consider it sad. An adult doing that deserves to be mocked. If Bria is worthy of any public attention, it's pity. Not snark.

mandatory politically correct feather-smoothing disclaimer about how I am just expressing my opinion and have all the respect in the world for all the differing opinions and am not trying to tell anyone else what to think blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Edited because I was typing too fast and left out a word.

Edited again to add this:

Bria, since Google is forever, maybe you're reading this in the summer of 2011, as it's being written, and maybe years from now. If the latter, you're probably at a time in your life when you're questioning your beliefs and your upbringing. This is normal and healthy. EVERYONE does it. Some people re-adopt their childhood beliefs, "owning" them much more strongly. Others move in different directions. I'm not going to keep debating in this thread because I just don't have the time, but I want to say one more time: not every non-Christian thinks it's fair to go after a kid, and I hope you'll be unafraid to look for allies or new information and perspectives in non-Christian communities.

[Witsec1]

Don't forget that Aerynoctober was the one who insisted on using the term "womb droppings", even after several people pointed out how demeaning it was to children. It was funny the first time someone used it out of exasperation at ConfusedJezebel's incessant whining, but Aerynoctober persisted long after that.

Does "most" of this thread consist of personal attacks on Bria? I don't think so. I don't think it's horrible or bashing anyone to discuss the merits of Bria's writing, as Burris has done here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2996 . I personally have spent hours critiquing my daughter's writing - at her insistence. Teens want their ideas and their writings to be taken seriously, in my experience.

One or two people seem to think it's possible to assess Bria's intellectual potential from her writing; several people, including me, have disagreed with that proposition. She has suffered from educational neglect. Are we supposed to refrain from pointing out when fundies neglect their children? We should shut up shop then.

[Austin]

Austin: this board is full of women who presume the intelligence, insight, and wisdom to tell other people that they are living their lives in a less than ideal way. Surely simple google searches on adulthood is not beyond the collective grasp. If it were a 17 year old in a country where 17 is legal adulthood, I would not have said a word.

As to hand-slapping, as I said, I simply wanted it on the record that someone doesn't agree with mocking a minor who lives in a VERY restricted situation spouting the party line of the people with whom she is stuck 24/7. In the highly likely event that she reads this thread, I want her to know that there's one non-Christian adult who doesn't think that what's being said about her here is fair.

She has had exactly as much opportunity to get a good education as a 17 year old whose parents refused to allow them to see a dentist has had to keep their teeth healthy. And if she were putting up a blog showing pictures of her gap-toothed smile and talking about how much better and easier life is while saving on toothpaste and floss, most of us would consider it sad. An adult doing that deserves to be mocked. If Bria is worthy of any public attention, it's pity. Not snark.

mandatory politically correct feather-smoothing disclaimer about how I am just expressing my opinion and have all the respect in the world for all the differing opinions and am not trying to tell anyone else what to think blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Edited because I was typing too fast and left out a word.

Okay, so is 17 the big problem for you? No issue there. I respect that and even agree with it. You might note that I have not snarked on Bria.

But you also said this:

When she turns 19, though I will still consider it unkind and inappropriate (since she can hardly remedy her education overnight) a case can no longer be reasonably made that it is immoral.

So even when she becomes of age here shortly, you will consider it "unkind" and "inappropriate" and to snark on her writings, so it doesn't appear to be all about age to you. And that's fine, but just don't be surprised when others react to that by reminding you that this is a snark board and that's what we do here. By your logic, no one should ever saying anything remotely critical of a second generation fundie because said fundie couldn't possibly know any better. And again, that's fine for you, but it doesn't make those who disagree with you "unkind" or "inappropriate".

[Witsec1]

OK, I was wrong about the term that AerynOctober was defending. Her reply to the concern is here: viewtopic.php?p=10886#p10886

I wonder whether her stepchildren really find being referred to as "crotchfruit" as screamingly funny as AO thinks they do.

[aerynoctober]

OK, I was wrong about the term that AerynOctober was defending. Her reply to the concern is here: http://freejinger.org/viewtopic.php?p=10886#p10886

I wonder whether her stepchildren really find being referred to as "crotchfruit" as screamingly funny as AO thinks they do.

I wonder where I'm going to take the restaurant-of-my-choice dinner you just won me in my bet with BF that some parent would bring this up again months later, because so many people in 2011 who drop crotchfruit find their entire self-worth tied up in said crotchfruit.

And the two who are old enough to be in on the joke think it's funny and refer to their pets as their furry little adopted crotchfruit.

[aerynoctober]

Austin: snarking is by definition unkind. That's why it's called "snarking" and not "discussing."

[Witsec1]

Well, have a nice dinner. Maybe it is a funny joke in your family. But, terms like that can be used to dehumanize. It has nothing to do having one's entire self-worth wrapped up in offspring. I pointed it out because you seem to care so much about what a fundie child might read here and conclude about the welcome they might receive in the wider world. Now, please stop characterizing this thread as consisting mainly of Bria-bashing - because it doesn't.