John Piper Gun Controversy

[DomWackTroll]

John Piper wrote an article in which he disagrees with Jerry Falwell Jr. on having/carrying guns…

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/12/23/john-piper-why-i-disagree-with-jerry-falwell-jr-on-christians-and-guns/

…and you can imagine how well it’s going over:

http://sharperiron.org/filings/122215/31602

http://www.puritanboard.com/showthread.php/88541-John-Piper-Guns-Self-Defense

http://baylyblog.com/blog/2015/12/john-get-your-gun

Piper is unmanly, Piper is a wimp, Piper is a heretic, etc. I will say, though, that I thought one part of it-- which actually has nothing to do with guns-- was kinda cray: Maybe don't even call the police because Jesus. 

[onlyme]

Doug Wilson has been droning on and on and ON about this... And I don't think Piper is really addressing guns, he's more addressing this attitude that gun owners (and big muscled guys, and people in monster wheeled trucks, and people with rottweilers can sometimes have.) of "Mess with me, man...".

But on the other hand Piper, at least, seems to be reinforcing the Christian persecution mindset... I don't know. 

Sick mindset arguing with sick mindset.  

[twin2]

Can someone please point out where in the Bible God says "You have a right to bear arms."

I particularly liked this reasoning.

Quote

Christians don’t carry guns because they don’t want to be killed themselves, but because they want to be faithful to defend others—particularly women and children. This is our calling as Christian men. We defend the innocent and defenseless. It would have been more kind for John to phrase it this way: “I have the power to defend my sisters in Christ here in my holster, so don’t mess with them!”

I think it probably has more to do with the "suck it evil, librel,  government, I can do what I want!".

[Childless]

I wonder if these guys know that puffing up their chests and saying ridiculous things like, "Don't mess with me!" just makes them look like pitiful people with low self esteem.  They come off as the complete opposite of manly.

[JesusCampSongs]

It's always hilarious, in a surreal way, to watch the fundies eat each other. 

It's also a weird feeling to find myself agreeing with a Calvinist, as a Friend. 

[AmazonGrace]

Matthew 5:

38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Silly old Jesus. Clearly he meant to say, if someone even looks like they might want to smite you, blow their brains out.

[FundiesInParis]

Am I actually erring on the side of agreement with John Piper?

Lord have mercy.

[Anonymousguest]

I like his stance, maybe a little extreme, but I'm glad there is at least one prominent and well know Christian leader willing to speak out against JF jr. Why is the right to bear arms a Christian tenet? Patriotism and Christianity have gotten confused. Not to mention patriotism itself had gotten all screwed up. Since when did patriotism mean banning immigrants? I find this whole aspect of patriotism/Christianity mind boggling. 

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

I could care less what Piper's stance on guns are. He lost me when he said he didn't know if he would use force to protect his wife or daughter. Really, dude?

[Howl]

32 minutes ago, Anonymousguest said:

Not to mention patriotism itself had gotten all screwed up. Since when did patriotism mean banning immigrants? I find this whole aspect of patriotism/Christianity mind boggling. 

Well, there is a certain element of Xtian fundamentalism that is the poster child for cognitive dissonance and this is just one manifestation.

Texas open carry goes into effect tomorrow morning. I was amazed (and gladdened) to see that HEB, the largest grocery store chain in Texas, will not allow open carry in any of its 316 stores.   

HEB is the largest privately owned company in Texas ($22 billion in business in 2014) and the 15th largest privately owned company in the US.  They aren't discussing it  and have not released a statement, and have just put up signs (next to the "no consumption of alcohol" signs) stating 

Quote

Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly.

 

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

4 minutes ago, Howl said:

Well, there is a certain element of Xtian fundamentalism that is the poster child for cognitive dissonance and this is just one manifestation.

Texas open carry goes into effect tomorrow morning. I was amazed (and gladdened) to see that HEB, the largest grocery store chain in Texas, will not allow open carry in any of its 316 stores.   

HEB is the largest privately owned company in Texas ($22 billion in business in 2014) and the 15th largest privately owned company in the US.  They aren't discussing it  and have not released a statement, and have just put up signs (next to the "no consumption of alcohol" signs) stating 

 

But they're allowing concealed carry?

[onlyme]

They are ricocheting from one extreme to the other. I don't have a hand gun, but I'm not against people having them for self protection. And if I knew I could (without causing an all out gun fight in a mall or something) I wouldn't hesitate to use it if someone was threatening my life, or the lives of innocent people around me. But it would grieve me. I wouldn't be happy about it. 

But the attitude of swag that's all over this "We aren't against guns, therefore we have to fly the banner of the NRA and wear them on our hips for show and call anyone who doesn't a pansy waste liberal" is repulsive. 

Likewise "I'm more Christ like than you there fore I can't even consider that a gun could be carried by a righteous person." is also repulsive. 

Both sides are immature, self righteous, prigs. I wish we could talk about the gun issues without all the emotion. 

 

[AmazonGrace]

36 minutes ago, Babycakes said:

I could care less what Piper's stance on guns are. He lost me when he said he didn't know if he would use force to protect his wife or daughter. Really, dude?

Well it's biblical not to. Think of Lot. Male angels visited him and a gang came by and wanted to hurt them so he offered his two young daughters to be gang raped. (Love you too dad... )

Genesis 19

[formergothardite]

52 minutes ago, Babycakes said:

I could care less what Piper's stance on guns are. He lost me when he said he didn't know if he would use force to protect his wife or daughter. Really, dude?

He lost me back when he giggled when giving an answer about women being abused at was all "well if he is only hurting her and not asking her to sin..." 

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

52 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

He lost me back when he giggled when giving an answer about women being abused at was all "well if he is only hurting her and not asking her to sin..." 

Eew, what!?

[RosyDaisy]

I wonder if these guys know that puffing up their chests and saying ridiculous things like, "Don't mess with me!" just makes them look like pitiful people with low self esteem.  They come off as the complete opposite of manly.

And painted a target on their backs. Men like that are the first to be taken out, not women and children.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

1 hour ago, AmazonGrace said:

Well it's biblical not to. Think of Lot. Male angels visited him and a gang came by and wanted to hurt them so he offered his two young daughters to be gang raped. (Love you too dad... )

Genesis 19

Just because something is in the Bible doesn't mean it is condoned/encouraged. I think logically most people know that, and yet it's just so fun to try and use such examples I guess. 

(This sounds snottier than I mean it, just one of those things I find personally frustrating/disappointing.)

[AmazonGrace]

Well Lot was rewarded for his actions, so.

[formergothardite]

54 minutes ago, Babycakes said:

Just because something is in the Bible doesn't mean it is condoned/encouraged. I think logically most people know that, and yet it's just so fun to try and use such examples I guess. 

(This sounds snottier than I mean it, just one of those things I find personally frustrating/disappointing.)

It wasn't exactly condemned either. Logically it doesn't make sense to us now to use the Bible to support slavery, but since it doesn't condemn it, the Bible was used to say slavery was okay. How people view the Bible and how the interpret it changes to adapt to what society views as acceptable. It is no longer acceptable to use the Bible to condone slavery or racism, but in the past it was. 

And yes, Piper has a history of downplaying domestic violence against women.