Bergey Family - 8 kids and living in an RV

[iweartanktops]

The last thing Selina needs is another child. I don't think she should have any, to be honest. This woman scares me. 

[libriatrix]

On 12/15/2015 at 5:31 AM, OnceUponATime said:

 Missionary 101 should include a course in privacy

This would be a useful precaution that might have results provided any of them TOOK Missionary 101.

[DaisyD]

Yep, it was 2. Those used to be in my lazy day movies list, but I haven't watched them in a decade. It might be time for a marathon. 

[FundieFarmer]

ACTUAL missionaries that go through a clearinghouse usually do take courses like that...they're taught about security (aka don't freaking blog about everything), cultural differences, etc. Bullshit lala missionaries obviously do not.

[HarleyQuinn]

I guess I missed all the fun before she locked her blogs, but wow. Just wow. 

[Mercer]

On 11/20/2015 at 10:50 AM, MyMilkshake said:

I was watching "The Dark Matter of Love ", a documentary about a family who adopted 3 kids from Russia (a teenager and two elementary aged). The family changed all the children's names to American names without even asking the kids if they even liked having those particular names. It made me so angry for the kids. Why the need to strip away even their names? It comes off as selfish and insecure on the part of the adopters.

Oh man, that family. I just watched that documentary and had pretty strong feelings about it. I know they meant well and I'm sympathetic that they had a real struggle, I think they were trying to do well by the kids, but they made some pretty significant mistakes with their adoption that set them up for problems.

Masha and the two brothers should not have been adopted at the same time. Experts across the board recommend against adopting unrelated children together. Of course siblings should be kept together, but when you have kids with no prior connection who have such different sets of needs... it's just not a good mix throwing them into a household and hoping for the best. The family should have focused on one adoption (either Masha or the two boys) and waited until everyone was stable and integrated into the family unit before bringing in more children. Taking shortcuts on that to get to your desired number of children more quickly shortchanges all the kids.

Frankly I don't think international adoption was the right choice for Masha at all. She seemed to have a positive relationship with her orphanage caretaker who wanted to adopt her but was denied because of not having enough space in her home. I think Masha would have been better off in a sleeping bag on the floor in the home of someone she was bonded with and growing up in her native country speaking her native language than being flown to another continent and expected to start her whole life over. In my opinion international adoption should be for kids who don't have a shot at a family in their own country, not for kids who are actually wanted by someone but are separated for the sake of giving them more material things.

I'm baffled why the adoptive parents didn't learn at least some Russian before picking up the kids. I know they wanted the kids to pick up English, and I know from experience that Russian can be difficult to learn an adult, but there is no excuse for not learning basic communication words like "hungry," "thirsty," "toilet," etc. It would have saved everyone a lot of frustration and helped them get off on the right foot.

They also seemed way too quick to force physical affection on the kids upon meeting them, when the kids were sending very clear signals they were not ready to be hugged, etc. At that point they were perceived as strangers by the kids even if they saw themselves as parents. Crossing boundaries like that is not a way to build trust.

Then there was the name change thing. The kids were having to adjust to a whole new life, a different culture, an unfamiliar language... and even their names get taken away. And I do mean taken away, because the kids were actively opposed to being renamed but that was just not a factor for the parents.

Like I said, I'm sympathetic to the challenge the parents faced and I think they meant well, but they made some choices that were not in the children's best interests and probably made the situation harder for themselves in process.

[MyMilkshake]

21 hours ago, Mercer said:

Oh man, that family. I just watched that documentary and had pretty strong feelings about it. I know they meant well and I'm sympathetic that they had a real struggle, I think they were trying to do well by the kids, but they made some pretty significant mistakes with their adoption that set them up for problems.

Masha and the two brothers should not have been adopted at the same time. Experts across the board recommend against adopting unrelated children together. Of course siblings should be kept together, but when you have kids with no prior connection who have such different sets of needs... it's just not a good mix throwing them into a household and hoping for the best. The family should have focused on one adoption (either Masha or the two boys) and waited until everyone was stable and integrated into the family unit before bringing in more children. Taking shortcuts on that to get to your desired number of children more quickly shortchanges all the kids.

Frankly I don't think international adoption was the right choice for Masha at all. She seemed to have a positive relationship with her orphanage caretaker who wanted to adopt her but was denied because of not having enough space in her home. I think Masha would have been better off in a sleeping bag on the floor in the home of someone she was bonded with and growing up in her native country speaking her native language than being flown to another continent and expected to start her whole life over. In my opinion international adoption should be for kids who don't have a shot at a family in their own country, not for kids who are actually wanted by someone but are separated for the sake of giving them more material things.

I'm baffled why the adoptive parents didn't learn at least some Russian before picking up the kids. I know they wanted the kids to pick up English, and I know from experience that Russian can be difficult to learn an adult, but there is no excuse for not learning basic communication words like "hungry," "thirsty," "toilet," etc. It would have saved everyone a lot of frustration and helped them get off on the right foot.

They also seemed way too quick to force physical affection on the kids upon meeting them, when the kids were sending very clear signals they were not ready to be hugged, etc. At that point they were perceived as strangers by the kids even if they saw themselves as parents. Crossing boundaries like that is not a way to build trust.

Then there was the name change thing. The kids were having to adjust to a whole new life, a different culture, an unfamiliar language... and even their names get taken away. And I do mean taken away, because the kids were actively opposed to being renamed but that was just not a factor for the parents.

Like I said, I'm sympathetic to the challenge the parents faced and I think they meant well, but they made some choices that were not in the children's best interests and probably made the situation harder for themselves in process.

I agree 100%!
And I too think Masha would've been happier to be living with her caretaker. They both cared very much for each other.

[klynn]

I just added The Dark Matter of Love to my list on Netflix.  It looks interesting. 

 

[FundieFarmer]

I completely forgot I watched that. It's really good. The parents frustrated me, too. They were so blindly unaware of the damage they were doing. I think that'll come up later too. And truly, the older sister was a little insufferable too, though I can see things from her perspective some. All around a giant mess and the kids lost out the most.

[klynn]

I ended up watching it last night.  Are there any updates on that family? 

[onlyme]

On 12/15/2015 at 5:16 AM, blessalessi said:

http://www.projectsouthafrica.com/may-2014-update/

These people seem to be the church-planters that the Bergeys will be joining up with.

I'm really struck by the way fundie missionaries share online and in newsletters the full names and personal information of the people they evangelise in the street.  I have seen this among the missionaries to England too.  It is appalling that they effectively sell their target's personal lives, in order to shill for their continued funding.

Remind me NEVER to disclose my name to any random who approaches me in the street to talk about Jesus.

Ohmigosh this. At our old church they made a church directory with color family photos, all the names including all the children, all contact info, including phone, address, cell phone, etc. I was the only one that said no. I voiced concern to another mom about all the info included and pictures of the kids and all that being given to strangers. She said "Well, I think they want to give them to the new people so they can get to know people faster." Exactly! Strangers! 

 

And then don't get me started on a pastor that uses his counseling sessions as sermon illustrations! 

[Mercer]

On 3/7/2016 at 7:59 AM, FundieFarmer said:

I completely forgot I watched that. It's really good. The parents frustrated me, too. They were so blindly unaware of the damage they were doing. I think that'll come up later too. And truly, the older sister was a little insufferable too, though I can see things from her perspective some. All around a giant mess and the kids lost out the most.

I actually had a lot of empathy for the older sister. Yeah, she was bratty and self-centered, but in ways that seemed pretty normal to me for a teenager. She was at a really tough age to have her whole life turned upside down, and it appeared that her parents did a pretty poor job of preparing her for the hard parts of what was going to happen so it seemed like she was really taken by surprise.

It also seemed like the parents put so much effort into the newly adopted children that Cami often got completely pushed aside. They seemed to forget that she still needed them too. When the parents were interacting with Cami and one of the other children would interrupt, the parents would almost invariably attend to that child immediately. Sometimes in a crisis you have to, but most of these were not crisis situations. The most heartbreaking example for me was when the father didn't even finish reading the card Cami took the time to make for him because one of the younger kids demanded to have their card looked at instead... and the father did so rather than asking the other child to wait their turn. A lot of teachable moments were missed where the younger child could have learned about patience and Cami could have seen she was still important to her parents.

As always with a documentary and editing, things may have been different than the way they were portrayed, but if the way they showed the family dynamic was accurate, I think Cami had a really tough row to hoe too, and although she could be a bit of a jerk, I felt like it was because her emotional needs were not being met.

[FundieFarmer]

That's really true, Mercer. Eesh, I forgot those moments. So many of them were cringeworthy for so many of the players in the story.

Supposedly everyone is doing well. I looked into it after I watched it and they seemed to be doing okay. Not sure if there have been any updates since.

[Gimme a Free RV]

Because of this thread, I watched "The Dark Matter of Love" on Netflix this week.  The most irritatingly annoying part, to me, was when the father was talking to the kids, via interpreter, while they were in a mini bus or van in Russia.  He was telling the kids that he, the mother, and Cami each had Disney character roles they played.  Oh.  My.  Stars.  What a cultural communication FAIL!  I felt sorry for the interpreter.  The brothers and the girl looked very unimpressed.

The mother...good grief!  If she can't show love and approval outwardly (thinking of the scene at school where Masha was looking for her approval after she sang the solo), why in the world is she adopting?

Cami annoyed the heck out of me.  Truly.  She was and is (I follow her Instagram account) a very self-centered, selfish, immature person.  But, heh. That's how she grew up.  The world revolved around her.

As to international adoption and going on deputation to raise money to start an orphanage in another country:  these people have GOT to know that there are children in their own country needing fostering, right?  Why do the children in another country get the compassion that the children in these people's own back yards desperately need?

[Inthemadhouse]

I'm guessing most of them don't qualify to foster US children.  There are space restrictions, age restrictions, and you can't just beat the crap out of the kids for disobeying.  

You can not force a foster child to go to church and submit to your personal brand of Jesus.  In fact, you may have to accommodate their birth religion and customs (The horror!  What if they were...were...Jewish!  Or Muslim!)

Being a foster parent is a hard and thankless job and it takes a truly special person to agree to have their lives turned upside down for it.  I don't think many of these people could do it, even if they had the desire.

[Mercer]

Not to harp too much on the Dark Matter family, but I also feel they really underestimated how much of the children's "behavior" was actually lack of English language comprehension.

The most blatant example of this for me was when one of the boys (I can't remember which one) kept saying yes he wanted to ride on the lawnmower, then would go out in the garage, scream and cry at the noise it was making, and run away. The parents seemed genuinely baffled by what was going on and acted like it was some sort of weird post-institutional behavior. The thing is... if you speak even rudimentary Russian, the true issue is really obvious. The father was referring to the lawnmower as "the machine," and the kid was hearing it as the Russian word машина and taking it to mean "car." So the kid thought he was being asked if he wanted to go for a car ride, was saying yes to that, and then was freaking out because instead of the car there was this weird loud lawnmower in the garage. If the parents had bothered to take an intro level Russian class before adopting, this would have been an easily resolved issue rather than a frustrating one for all involved.

I also got the impression that Masha was covering for things she didn't understand, and sometimes her blankness was that she really just didn't get what the other person was saying. It seemed like she understood enough English that she could usually guess what was being said, but her responses sometimes suggested she wasn't quite getting the nuances. (For example, I do not share her father's confidence that she understood "Only ride your bike to the stop sign, but no further" - that's a pretty complex instruction.) I might be wrong and she might have been getting all of it, but there were times when I was pretty sure she was just nodding to shut the person up but really had no idea what she was agreeing to. Then once again, it was a "behavior" rather than anyone trying to figure out exactly how much she had comprehended.

[Queen Of Hearts]

I just watched this documentary after reading about it here, too. The Netflix statisticians are probably wondering why there is a sudden interest in this movie.  LOL!  I actually felt bad for Cami and think she handled all the changes with a pretty fair amount of grace, considering her age and the fact that so much changed so suddenly.  I can only think back to how I would have been at her age and I don't think I would have been as calm or quiet about things as she was.  I find it shocking that this family was allowed to adopt so many all at once.  

[Joyleaf]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

Not to harp too much on the Dark Matter family, but I also feel they really underestimated how much of the children's "behavior" was actually lack of English language comprehension.

(snip)

 If the parents had bothered to take an intro level Russian class before adopting, this would have been an easily resolved issue rather than a frustrating one for all involved.

I haven't watched all of the documentary yet but I totally agree that some very basic knowledge of Russian would have made it so much easier for everyone involved.
Even just learning a few words like toilet, thirst, hunger, pain and so on would have helped everybody involved immensely.

[Pseudoname]

Selina has a new Facebook post up.  They are adopting another child.  It sounds like a rehoming.  5yo boy adopted from China as a toddler by another family.

SMH. 

 

 

[Iamhispurity]

15 minutes ago, Pseudoname said:

Selina has a new Facebook post up.  They are adopting another child.  It sounds like a rehoming.  5yo boy adopted from China as a toddler by another family.

SMH. 

 

 

Whhhhhy??????

[Gimme a Free RV]

I suppose if there are people with a "super-savior" mentality who hoard dogs/cats, then there are people who do this with children.

I have two rescue dogs and it absolutely tugs at my heart strings to see a dog up for adoption or one who is listed as "will be euthanized tomorrow" to the point I find myself trying to figure out how I could make it work to bring another dog into my home.  Then, (this is how I feel God "speaks" to me) the voice of reason interferes and reminds me of the reasons I shouldn't bring another dog into the home, those reasons being time and finances and possible future limitations.

Not pretending to know or understand the mind of God, but surely He has reminded Selina that she has other children who need time, attention, financial and emotional support, not to mention significant face time with each parent.  She perceives herself as a hero, saving the world one orphan at a time.  In theory, this sounds heart-warming.  In reality, it isn't possible.  Why not invest in the blessings God has given her up to this point?

 

ETA:  Also, huge families bringing more children into the mix are being unfair to their older children.  As it is, parental responsibilities are thrust upon these older siblings.  
What about the likelihood that the very youngest children might be left orphaned again if the parents continue to adopt on into their 40s, 50s, and 60s?  If anything happens to the mother and father, the older siblings are, once again, left with parental responsibilities they did not ask for.

[blessalessi]

35 minutes ago, Gimme a Free RV said:

Then, (this is how I feel God "speaks" to me) the voice of reason interferes and reminds me of the reasons I shouldn't bring another dog into the home, those reasons being time and finances and possible future limitations.

This is an example of how FJ has expanded my own understanding of what faith means to reasonable, good people. (Cross-ref to the Assumptions about FJers thread )  From your perspective, God speaks reason to you about what is in the best interests of everyone in the situation.

Meanwhile, Selina's "God" is sat on her shoulder, whispering "Go geddit, girl!" every time she sees something she wants.  

She and Brent make me so angry, they are vile, shitty parents that put their adoptive child in a psychiatric facility for "respite care"  the other year, and then left her there while they left the country for a mission trip with their birth children.

And now they are adopting AGAIN?!!! 

They have no sense of responsibility at all, and they seem proud of that.  They are practically running their own orphanage in an RV right now, while grifting funds to set up another orphanage in S Africa. How can it be that neither of them is keeping the other in check, at all, ever?

And none of their supporters are questioning their wisdom?

@Gimme a Free RV There is a very real danger, imo, that these kids could be left orphaned again much sooner, if they do anything that gets in the way of Selina's next Big Idea.

[blessalessi]

And I can't cut and paste from FB on my Kindle, but I hate, hate, hate the way Selina couches her hideous behaviour in what seems on the surface to be a modern, child-centred understanding of adoption.  Yes, it is great for her skim-reading supporters to learn that she acknowledges that adoption starts with loss and that prayers are needed as  this five year old child will now be shunted off to his second adoptive family since he was brought "home" from China as a toddler.  

But how is it possibly going to help him to become one of a passel of kids living in a bus, travelling round singing for his supper at a new church every Sunday, until the time comes that there are enough funds to uproot him again and take him to live a new life as a Child Missionary to South Africa's Orphans. How the ever loving fuck could that be a good thing?

[Gimme a Free RV]

Once a child is adopted, isn't there any oversight that exists to ensure that the adoptee is doing well in his/her new environment?  And if this is a rehoming adoption, is the original agency aware of it?  I know next to nothing about the legal aspect of adoptions...but surely, something isn't all flowers and sunshine about this.

I also wonder if Selina and her husband stop to think about the futures of these children.  What will it be like to have so many teenagers at once in a house?  How will these children receive education beyond the high school level, if they are allowed to?  How will the Bergey's be able to afford plane fare, vaccinations, passports, visas, clothes, bedding, food, a large vehicle, and security for so many children, either here or in South Africa?  Have they stopped to think that as the children become adults, they might rebel or they might decide to marry a SA and never return to the US or that one or more of these children will have developmental and/or mental delays and need professional assistance?

Collecting orphans now might make Selina envision herself with a crown on her head but I predict that crown is going to get kicked around by any number of the children within a few years.

[blessalessi]

China put tighter post-adoption reporting arrangements in place in 2015,  but as this is likely a private "re-homing" of a child brought to the USA years ago, it won't apply. The pretty, pink Perspectives in Parenting website is part of the homestudy "evidence" they will need to have the child officially signed sign over to them locally,  I guess.

Selina reported last year that they do not qualify for formal China adoptions at this stage. (They have 8 kids already and live in a bus, I would say they don't qualify to visit a pet shop, but that's just me).  They have no chance with any country signed up to the Hague Convention. 

They were looking into a Haiti adoption last year from a money-grubbing pastor who "coordinates" dodgy adoptions for cash but, sadly for them, Haiti put a total stop on overseas adoptions that same year, to try to sort out what was becoming a national scandal.

The only options left to them at this stage are to collect unwanted kids from families that are pruning their collection, or to move overseas and personally round up kids playing out on the streets. They seem to have both options covered and are accepting love offerings right now, if anyone is interested.