Hey Seppis: You live in California.

[CaptainFunderpants]

Fundies can't geography (among other things), but holy bologna, get a load of this: melodys-notes.blogspot.com/2015/07/raise-confederate-flag-chuck-baldwin.html

[DomWackTroll]

They're really in a tizzy about the Confederate flag. I want them to remind us again that the first person in the American Colonies to own a black slave was a black man-- and post his photograph like they did last time. Such morons.

[DGayle]

What we see materializing before our very eyes is tyranny: tyranny over the freedom of expression, tyranny over the freedom of association, tyranny over the freedom of speech, and tyranny over the freedom of conscience.

I got that far before I started skimming. The confederate flag coming down doesn't take those things away. How evil does a person have to be in their hearts that they only think they have freedom of conscience, speech, association, and expression, if a state's government is flying a symbol of oppression?

I get the sinking feeling they use the n-word for black people when they aren't posting on their blog, and I don't mean "negro." I mean the other one.

[Mama Mia]

Yeah.....this whole confederate flag being flown at official state government sites.....where's the logic in that?

Can someone explain to them that you don't continue to fly the flag of the side that lost the war? If they live in California - are they up in arms because Mexico's flag isn't flying on the state buildings in Sacramento? I'm thinking not.

[Howl]

Unlike the blacks in the North, who were conscripted by Lincoln and forced to fight in segregated units, thousands of blacks in the South fought of their own free will in a fully-integrated southern army. I bet your history book never told you about that.

Fully integrated? That's like saying that slaves and their overseers were fully integrated because they, you know, "worked together."

Also, TOTALLY explains (not!) a century of vicious white supremacy and brutal segregation in the south that did not even come close to ending until the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s.

[DGayle]

Yeah.....this whole confederate flag being flown at official state government sites.....where's the logic in that?

Can someone explain to them that you don't continue to fly the flag of the side that lost the war? If they live in California - are they up in arms because Mexico's flag isn't flying on the state buildings in Sacramento? I'm thinking not.

It's not even about who won the war. It's about what that particular flag stands for and its history. I wouldn't be bothered if Mexico's flag flew in Sacramento. Their flag doesn't have a history of hate, and I think the Mexican flag in Sacramento would be appropriate since that really would be a tip of the hat to the state's history, though it wouldn't ever happen because of the people who'd claim Obama's telling Mexicans to flock into California.

[DGayle]

Fully integrated? That's like saying that slaves and their overseers were fully integrated because they, you know, "worked together."

Also, TOTALLY explains (not!) a century of vicious white supremacy and brutal segregation in the south that did not even come close to ending until the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s.

Segregated proms STILL happen there TO THIS DAY.

[princessmahina]

As a history major, I took a class about the Civil War from a man who specializes in Southern history, particularly the Civil War period. He showed us, with careful documentation, that the story of black men fighting on behalf of the Confederacy was a myth. If you think about it, it doesn't make sense for them to be actively fighting *for* slavery. Moreover, why would slaveowners want to equip their slaves (many of whom were mistreated) with guns? It seems like a slaveowning man's nightmare.

I also wish people would stop bitching about the Confederate flag being taken down. There are so many aspects of Southern heritage to be proud of- the amazing food, the music, the stories, the religious devotion, the friendliness, and the perseverance through extreme hardship (and did I mention the food? It's kind of a big deal). Why focus on this one particular symbol, which is such a negative thing, and has been used for so long to perpetuate antiquated notions of bigotry and discrimination? The only place that flag belongs is in a museum. People baffle me sometimes, they really do.

[church_of_dog]

I live in California -- in a very rural part, pretty much dominated by right wing folks, some but not all of whom are yahoos/good ol' boys. Today a woman at my house asked me if I had noticed that the local bar has a confederate flag on display. Outside. Where she noticed it from the street as she drove by. And it wasn't there 2 months ago. Which means it was put up recently, which can't be a coincidence given the news lately. I hadn't noticed the flag, agreed with her that it was offensive, but am pretty dumbstruck -- no matter how right-wing the bar owner may be, does he truly not realize how offensive most people will find that? I suspect that to him it means "yee-hah", but I can't fathom how any adult in this culture could not get the racial offensiveness of it. This is a VERY white area, racially, and the few non-white folks around are mostly not black, but still -- I wonder how long it will be before he gets complaints. Personally, I hope it's soon.

[DGayle]

As a history major, I took a class about the Civil War from a man who specializes in Southern history, particularly the Civil War period. He showed us, with careful documentation, that the story of black men fighting on behalf of the Confederacy was a myth. If you think about it, it doesn't make sense for them to be actively fighting *for* slavery. Moreover, why would slaveowners want to equip their slaves (many of whom were mistreated) with guns? It seems like a slaveowning man's nightmare.

What I always learned is that SOME slaves did fight for the confederacy. Not by choice though. Tell a black slave that he does what he's told, or his family will be slaughtered, and see how many won't do what they're ordered.

[teachergirl]

Yes...I taught that as well when I did VA History as well....The Civil War is a complex issue and did the North have slaves and benefit from slavery? Sure but to pretend that the CW was only states rights is just wrong...I always say, yeah the states rights to own slaves.

The Seppis are nuts but no more nutty than Atlanta Goodwin who was all in a tizzy over TN hiding the statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest or Jordan Neidnagel who said the Civil War was never about slavery or the Reins sisters who commented on Atlanta's FB page. These people are now showing their true colors....sexist AND racist. and stupid.

[RosyDaisy]

As a history major, I took a class about the Civil War from a man who specializes in Southern history, particularly the Civil War period. He showed us, with careful documentation, that the story of black men fighting on behalf of the Confederacy was a myth. If you think about it, it doesn't make sense for them to be actively fighting *for* slavery. Moreover, why would slaveowners want to equip their slaves (many of whom were mistreated) with guns? It seems like a slaveowning man's nightmare.

That's strange. The 1890 Census list over 3,000 back men claimed to be Confederate veterans. Source: 1890 United States Census, page 3. It's entirely possible these were "free men of color" or slaves conscripted into hard labor.

I'm not sticking up for the Confederate cause (hate what it stood for). I'm just pointing out a historical fact based on a government document...that's all.

[tropaka]

That's strange. The 1890 Census list over 3,000 back men claimed to be Confederate veterans. Source: 1890 United States Census, page 3. It's entirely possible these were "free men of color" or slaves conscripted into hard labor.

I'm not sticking up for the Confederate cause (hate what it stood for). I'm just pointing out a historical fact based on a government document...that's all.

maybe my google fu is not strong today, but all I could find about 1890 Veterans' Schedules was that they enumerated Union veterans and widows, so 3000 black men claiming to be Union vets would be expected (?)

https://www.census.gov/history/www/gene ... ensus.html

[Guest]

I live in the north, closer to Canada than any other state, in a place that was actually a major hub for the Underground Railroad (because of the whole Canada thing), but in the rural parts of town, especially, one can still find confederate flags everywhere. It's more of a redneck pride/thinly veiled racism ("I don't dislike black people, I just think most of them are criminals" type). Sometimes when I see one, I'll text a picture of it to my boyfriend with the caption "the north will rise again!"

It's just ignorance. I can't explain it. Why not be proud of your own statesmen fighting to preserve the union? Why not be proud that Malcolm X grew up just down the road? Why not be proud of the fact that our country helped take out the Nazi regime? Slavery though, really?

[carebaer]

Yeah.....this whole confederate flag being flown at official state government sites.....where's the logic in that?

Can someone explain to them that you don't continue to fly the flag of the side that lost the war? If they live in California - are they up in arms because Mexico's flag isn't flying on the state buildings in Sacramento? I'm thinking not.

Explaining that you don't fly the flag of the side that lost is probably a lost cause with Californians. After all, they still fly a version of the bear flag.

[salex]

I wasted a certain amount if keystrokes on facebook last week explaining the following.

1) the government didn't make Amazon and other stores remove Confederate Battle Flags from their marketing mix... and they may creep back in or they may not, but all retailers choose what they will and will not sell at any given time. They are choosing not to sell that now. I also pointed out that other, smaller retailers were likely offering more options in these flags, and if they wanted one they should scurry over and buy one.

2) That no individual is being prohibited from flying a Confederate Battle Flag, adorning their pick up, yard, chest or ass with the flag or getting tattoo of it on their forehead. It is simply being removed from places of honor in government offices and relegated to the museum, where it has belonged since about April 10, 1865. IF they want a flag, they should scurry over and buy one.

3) I encourage everyone who wants a Confederate Flag to scurry out and buy one-- that way it can be a way to express whatever you think you are expressing to others who share your view, and can give a heads up to the rest of us as to what kind of person we are dealing with. Thank you .

I didn't even get into how often slavery was mentioned in the secession documents, or what the battle in Bleeding Kansas looked like just prior to the war. It falls on deaf ears.

[princessmahina]

What I always learned is that SOME slaves did fight for the confederacy. Not by choice though. Tell a black slave that he does what he's told, or his family will be slaughtered, and see how many won't do what they're ordered.

We were taught that there were many black men on the front lines of the Confederate side but that they were there as personal slaves to higher ranking soldiers.

Since they were technically there, they may have qualified as veterans later, even if they didn't do any actual "fighting."

[Emme]

I got distracted by Peter's sideburns... Falling down the Peter and Melody rabbit hole now...

[ADoyle90815]

Explaining that you don't fly the flag of the side that lost is probably a lost cause with Californians. After all, they still fly a version of the bear flag.

As a Californian, the issue I see with the bear flag is that it was adopted as the state's official flag. There is a small movement that could grow that is trying to get that flag changed, which would mean designing a new state flag. California isn't the only state that's like that, since the Texas state flag was once its national flag as there was a period when Texas was independent from Mexico, but not quite a US territory or state.

[CaptainFunderpants]

I got distracted by Peter's sideburns... Falling down the Peter and Melody rabbit hole now...

I haven't seen news about them since their wedding months ago. If you find stuff, let us know!

Edit: Would be curious to know if Peter and Melody actually signed legal documents and didn't just change Melody's name at the courthouse ala Lance & Megan.

[DGayle]

From Ebony Magazine, June 1962

Negro History: Part VII

The Civil War at a Glance

https://books.google.com/books?id=jtcDA ... cy&f=false

Black people fought, but nothing backs up any black people being there of their own free and willing accord.

[DGayle]

I don't know the history of the bear flag. What's wrong with it?

[Mama Mia]

Explaining that you don't fly the flag of the side that lost is probably a lost cause with Californians. After all, they still fly a version of the bear flag.

Not exactly the same attachment to the symbol though. I admit I had no idea that the state flag was tied to a bunch of Americans who came to stage a revolt - for about a month. And I'm a California native :embarrassed: . It was probably covered in a paragraph in 4 th grade history, but I guess I wasn't paying attention that day. It's not my impression though that people, in general, have strong feelings about the state flag as the Confederate flag.

[church_of_dog]

Not exactly the same attachment to the symbol though. I admit I had no idea that the state flag was tied to a bunch of Americans who came to stage a revolt - for about a month. And I'm a California native :embarrassed: . It was probably covered in a paragraph in 4 th grade history, but I guess I wasn't paying attention that day. It's not my impression though that people, in general, have strong feelings about the state flag as the Confederate flag.

I agree Mama Mia. I'm also a native Californian and I don't really know anything about the Bear Revolt (or whatever it was called). I've actually read a little about it but it just didn't stick in my mind and the flag certainly doesn't represent that to me. Personally, I like the California flag because it shows a symbol of wild nature that used to be here (the grizzly bear). I know, I'm such a literalist.

[Emme]

I haven't seen news about them since their wedding months ago. If you find stuff, let us know!

Edit: Would be curious to know if Peter and Melody actually signed legal documents and didn't just change Melody's name at the courthouse ala Lance & Megan.

I did not, but I did find a nifty video of a Seppi giving birth...... WHERE WERE THE RESCUE FERRETS?