Terrorist Attacks in Denmark

[Anny Nym]

Sweden and Germany had roughly 49k Syrian refugees each as of October 2014.

UK 5k Spain 1705. France 3750. Yup..a definite imbalance. Not sure of the rest of the world.

syrianrefugees.eu/?page_id=10

Yes, that are some horrific imbalanced numbers.

Czech Republic, Slovakia, Croatia, Poland...(only to name a few) are even worse in total numbers of taken refugees. None of this countries is in any way still the clichee east-european block-country. They are modernized and economically developed. Their governments could... if they would want to!

[FaustianSlip]

Thank you for the link to that article, it's very clear and well written. It's a terrifying ideology in so many ways.

You're most welcome. A friend posted it on Facebook recently, and I found it fascinating and, I agree, somewhat terrifying. Largely because it lays bare just how thoroughly both our society and our government has misunderstood what it is that makes ISIS tick. The fact of the matter is that ISIS is an Islamic group and can justify their actions using traditional interpretations of Islamic law. I don't say this because I think all (or even most) Muslims are out to cut people's heads off or agree with what ISIS is doing, but these guys aren't al-Qaeda and just pulling things out of their ass- they're hewing, very carefully, I might add, to a medieval interpretation of Islamic teaching and law. Everything they're doing within the so-called caliphate they've established is done with an eye to Islamic teachings, and they're not ignorant hillbillies, not the guys at the top. They've studied the texts, and they know what those texts say and how they've been interpreted. That's what's so scary about these guys, but it also gives an idea of how to defeat them: wait and let them burn themselves out.

[OkToBeTakei]

You're most welcome. A friend posted it on Facebook recently, and I found it fascinating and, I agree, somewhat terrifying. Largely because it lays bare just how thoroughly both our society and our government has misunderstood what it is that makes ISIS tick. The fact of the matter is that ISIS is an Islamic group and can justify their actions using traditional interpretations of Islamic law. I don't say this because I think all (or even most) Muslims are out to cut people's heads off or agree with what ISIS is doing, but these guys aren't al-Qaeda and just pulling things out of their ass- they're hewing, very carefully, I might add, to a medieval interpretation of Islamic teaching and law. Everything they're doing within the so-called caliphate they've established is done with an eye to Islamic teachings, and they're not ignorant hillbillies, not the guys at the top. They've studied the texts, and they know what those texts say and how they've been interpreted. That's what's so scary about these guys, but it also gives an idea of how to defeat them: wait and let them burn themselves out.

Can I ask why this is a recurring theme? Is it reported differently in different countries? I would have thought it fairly obvious that ISIS subscribes to Sunni Muslim theology. It's not exactly secretive. Why the big deal about emphasising they are an Islamic group? It's kind of like saying the IRA were christians. Does that mean that in their time christians (or even most of them) should be categorised in the same broad stroke? Catholicism being a part of christianity? It reads oddly to me. Like stating the obvious but for a different intent. Maybe just my interpretation.

[sparkles]

Can I ask why this is a recurring theme? Is it reported differently in different countries? I would have thought it fairly obvious that ISIS subscribes to Sunni Muslim theology. It's not exactly secretive. Why the big deal about emphasising they are an Islamic group? It's kind of like saying the IRA were christians. Does that mean that in their time christians (or even most of them) should be categorised in the same broad stroke? Catholicism being a part of christianity? It reads oddly to me. Like stating the obvious but for a different intent. Maybe just my interpretation.

When I think of extremist groups, it's generally just that. Extremists. And extremists to me are far outside of the norm for whatever group they claim to represent because they tend to twist and pervert that group's ideology into one of their own and therefore they stand apart. I think FS (and the Atlantic) stressed that ISIS is an Islamic group because they ARE in fact following the letter of traditional Islamic law (if I'm understanding correctly), which is part of what makes them so dangerous and intractable. It's not necessarily something we can say about other extremist groups, who often use violence in very different ways, particularly as a bargaining chip, and not because it's part of their religious mandate.

[OkToBeTakei]

When I think of extremist groups, it's generally just that. Extremists. And extremists to me are far outside of the norm for whatever group they claim to represent because they tend to twist and pervert that group's ideology into one of their own and therefore they stand apart. I think FS (and the Atlantic) stressed that ISIS is an Islamic group because they ARE in fact following the letter of traditional Islamic law (if I'm understanding correctly), which is part of what makes them so dangerous and intractable. It's not necessarily something we can say about other extremist groups, who often use violence in very different ways, particularly as a bargaining chip, and not because it's part of their religious mandate.

Yes extremists are just that ...extreme.

Their interpretation of Sharia law has been roundly criticised by Muslim clerics. They burned alive a Muslim Jordanian pilot.

Beheading carried out by, videotaped by and disseminated throughout the internet by ISIS has delivered a message across the world. It is a message of fear and horror. Onlookers, especially Muslims, were mortified by this open display of barbarity. And everyone, including Muslims, became fearful of this force that was executing so many people, even Westerners.

Horrifying as it is to us all, this move to burn the Jordanian pilot alive is even more of a message than the decapitations are. And it is more of a message to the Muslims masses than it is to the Western world.

The message is clear: ISIS believes you abandoned the true path.

The Saudi's fatwa.

"Terrorism is contrary to the purposes of the great religion of Islam, which came as a mercy to the world … and to ensure the system of worldly coexistence," said the 21-strong council of senior scholars, according to the Saudi Press Agency. "Terrorism has nothing to do with Islam, which is innocent of this deviant ideology … [terrorism] is nothing more than corruption and criminality rejected by Islamic sharia law and common sense."

Any Muslim who thinks that jihad (which means "struggle") means joining a terrorist group "is ignorant and has gone astray", the clerics declared on Wednesday.

Saudi Arabia, a country oft criticised for it's adherence to Sharia law.

I think when discussing and trying to understand and not misinform it may be better to look beyond just one article which actually is quite lacking in nuance in my view. I'm well cool calling them Extremist Islamists. I'm uncomfortable declaring with supposed gravitas that ISIS IS Islamic. I think the difference should be obvious.

[sparkles]

I think there's a big difference between saying ISIS is Islam and ISIS is Islamic. I don't think anyone here believes the former and I think it's important to drive that point home for the non-Muslim world.

[Clementine]

Heavily armed policemen are now guarding jewish schools and synagogues in Sweden. Found photos from outside two pre-schools in Malmö and Stockholm. The situation is insane.

[samurai_sarah]

Ah! The incident in the village of Vorra. Yes, they indeed covered that one. Thanky you! (I thought you meant like military fire bombing)

Edited: Wait, are we now talking asylum seekers? I think there we need to make a difference to avoid confusion. Asylum seekers who got their case positive processed are allowed to work in Germany and are accredited to welfare, no?

At least, this is the case in Austria:

For asylum seekers there is a basic care law in place, which states they get food&board,clothing, juristic and pychologic councelling, translators, and medical aid if needed. Positive processed refugees could work or get Mindestsicherung/welfare.

ad. clogged system:

Recently, there was some terrible confusion going on here, with the mass migration of employment seekers from Kosovo to the EU. Apparently, some human traffickers told them they should make a claim for asylum in Austria "because they give you welcome money and you could just stay there this way" which is a terrible urban legend the traffickers telling around to fraud Kosovari People into giving them their money (500-1000 euros) to get them to Austria. And then for this people, there is a very bad awakening, because a) nobody "just gives you money" not in Austria or anywhere else and b) Kosovo is a safe state and not eligible for asylum status, their claims are file negative anyway.

So they just made a very expensive journey to Austria and back, plus their files are slowing down the processing system even more.

It´s a very ugly situation for everyone.

Sorry. I didn't express myself clearly about the fire-bombing.

[morri]

Only a very small number of asylum seekers are actually passed as admitted. those who fail to ensure asylum and those who havent got as far as stating the asylum are neither allowed to vote or leave the area.