A thought on why they eat so much crap...

[onlyorganic]

I'm responding as I'm reading through the thread, so sorry if this subtopic is dead, but yeah, count me in the "I love Aldi" team. We purchase mostly basic ingredients like fresh produce, frozen produce, canned/dry beans, milk (without growth hormones), cheeses, eggs, and healthy snacks like unsweetened applesauce. You can definitely eat well and healthy from Aldi, like any other grocery store. It just depends on whether you're buying basics or prepared foods.

Hmmm, the Aldi that was near me two years ago before me moved was nothing to write home about. It was almost all boxed, prepackaged foods with the freezer to one wall and the cold cases at the back. It was a lot of prepared mixes, boxed dinners and not a lot of staples, if I remember correctly. Like, I could find rice mix but not actual bags of plain, white rice to cook alongside a meal. They barely had any produce there. I understand you can buy a lot of good things if you take the time to look, but I'm a Trader Joe's snob, so when I can spend just a bit more and shop there, I'll skip Aldi altogether. (I also had issues with buying cans of things at Aldi and the cans not being nearly full. I remember it was black beans, the can was about 1/4 full!!! I didn't know what happened. I didn't drain them...they just weren't full!)

[bbfreethinker]

These threads are so bad for my self esteem. I don't even know what HFCS is. I love processed food. I love fresh veggies too, but my idea of a balanced meal is Kraft macaroni and cheese with some fresh green beans. And I'm pretty much okay with that. Even back when I was a size 2 and crazed about my weight, I didn't worry about stuff being processed or natural -- I just extremely restricted portion size. I'm actually curious to see the inevitable studies in the next few decades about whether people who eat organic and chemical free have better health outcomes than people who eat the same type of diet but don't worry about whether the food is organic or processed or whatever.

I still can't figure out where people find the time to can and jar things or make homemade bread for every meal or any of that. I tried, but I literally don't have the time. Or I do, but it would mean giving up other things, like seeing my family, playing with my cat, going out with friends, reading, etc.

demgirl, I'm with you on this subject. There is an interesting article in Skeptical Inquirer that contrasts what we know scientifically about nutrition and what claims have been based on epidemiology/observation studies which because they are not randomized are subject to bias.

Basically, what we know we need are:

• calories for fuel from carbohydrates, fat and/or protein
  
• the RDA of vitamins
  
• the RDA of minerals
  
• essential amino acids
  
• essential fatty acids
  
• high quality protein

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/science_a ... _practice/

[WonderingInWA]

I found this book at a deep discount on a clearance table at a local book store and it is everything you are all talking about -- all those gross canned soup casseroles and jello concoctions we children of the 60s and 70s grew up on: http://www.amazon.com/Gallery-Regrettable-Food-James-Lileks/dp/0609607820

Oh, and wait -- the author has a playground on his website with excerpts from the book! Enjoy!

http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/index.html

[gilora]

I completely agree with prior posters who have said that it's a matter of cost and effort. Unless you garden on a massive scale, freezing and canning produce for winter, a garden is a losing proposition economically (although of course the qualify is better.)

If you're cooking (say) green beans for 20, it's far easier to open 2 #10 cans and pour them into a pot to heat than it is to select, wash and cut 4 lbs. of beans. I don't fault the sister-moms for taking shortcuts, their lives are difficult as it is.

[YPestis]

As others pointed out, it's cost and convenience that causes the Duggars and Bates to eat so unhealthily. A young girl can't be expected to understand nutrition and put in extra hours of work so that everyone could eat fresh veggies and made from scratch ingredients. Most of the time, it's hard work for a young girl to cook enough for a family of 12 three meals a day. Canned and preprocessed foods are ideas coming from young girls who are told their job is to cook enough to fill the bellies of a dozen hungry family members.

The other issue is that most fundies have a warped idea of the past. My parents grew up in the 1950's. Now granted, it was China, however, their experience is probably more in align with the reality of historical times than the rose tinted view that fundies have. My parents have always reiterated to me that cakes and other goodies were reserved for special occasions in the rest of the world. Oil was expensive and junk food required them in abundance. Eggs were very expensive, so to put them into cookies and cakes require a huge financial cost. Peasant children in China such as my father never saw a cookie. If they had the chance to eat junk food, no one thought ill of them to eat as much as are given. No one has to worry about fat and cholesterol if they only get to eat five cookies a year. The fundies who ascribe to a "simpler time" forget this minor detail. Fundie always assume that the past were great by looking at how wealthy families live, not realizing that most people lived in poverty.

[Wolfie]

The other issue is that most fundies have a warped idea of the past. My parents grew up in the 1950's. Now granted, it was China, however, their experience is probably more in align with the reality of historical times than the rose tinted view that fundies have. My parents have always reiterated to me that cakes and other goodies were reserved for special occasions in the rest of the world. Oil was expensive and junk food required them in abundance. Eggs were very expensive, so to put them into cookies and cakes require a huge financial cost. Peasant children in China such as my father never saw a cookie. If they had the chance to eat junk food, no one thought ill of them to eat as much as are given. No one has to worry about fat and cholesterol if they only get to eat five cookies a year. The fundies who ascribe to a "simpler time" forget this minor detail. Fundie always assume that the past were great by looking at how wealthy families live, not realizing that most people lived in poverty.

This is very true- the rest of the world was either developing or recovering from war in the 1940's and 50's, and there had been the depression and dust bowl just before. My grandparents always said that they were VERY lucky in the 1930's because their parents were involved in food production in a state that wasn't part of the dust bowl, so they didn't starve, but they also knew that a lot of people were struggling.

[Kitty]

Indeed. So much of the world is in poverty, but the US has enough wealth and resources now to load everything with sugar and fats and other junk our bodies were not made to digest. My parents grew up only occasionally drinking soda.

Fundies definitely have a fucked-up perception of history. People didn't have much of a choice but to eat fruits and veggies; even meat was hard to get to since that often required either buying and breeding animals, or hunting them. It wasn't until recently that supermarkets started popping up every other block.

The sad thing is, there's a shocking lack of knowledge of nutrition from Americans of all walks of life, not just fundies, and previous posters are right in saying that it's often teenage SAHDs cooking for the family so they will cook only what they know how to cook. When you're cooking for a family of like, 30 or whatever gardening is difficult.

Though I still argue that the Duggars, Bateses, and other megafams have plenty of free labor and land, gardening and preparing that food can't be that hard for them...

[Wolfie]

Indeed. So much of the world is in poverty, but the US has enough wealth and resources now to load everything with sugar and fats and other junk our bodies were not made to digest.

Our bodies need sugars and fats to survive, just not as much as some people tend to give them- or some of the over processed ones that are commonly stuck in processed foods.

[jenny_islander]

Re obesity and diet, there have been some interesting studies on epigenetic causes of obesity recently. For example, if a woman grew up on an extremely restricted diet--living on fried flour during the Great Depression, or a family that dieted obsessively, or being damn dirt poor in the city these days--it's more likely that her children will be fatter than average regardless of what they eat.

I agree that the big fundamentalist families tend to live on assemble-and-bake convenience-food casseroles because they are making little girls fix the meals.

[nuri]

Hmmm, the Aldi that was near me two years ago before me moved was nothing to write home about. It was almost all boxed, prepackaged foods with the freezer to one wall and the cold cases at the back. It was a lot of prepared mixes, boxed dinners and not a lot of staples, if I remember correctly. Like, I could find rice mix but not actual bags of plain, white rice to cook alongside a meal. They barely had any produce there. I understand you can buy a lot of good things if you take the time to look, but I'm a Trader Joe's snob, so when I can spend just a bit more and shop there, I'll skip Aldi altogether. (I also had issues with buying cans of things at Aldi and the cans not being nearly full. I remember it was black beans, the can was about 1/4 full!!! I didn't know what happened. I didn't drain them...they just weren't full!)

Aldi does vary by area and what sells. I didn't think that until I found coconut milk in an Aldi near an ethnically Indian area, but mine doesn't carry it. So yours may suck, but mine is pretty awesome :D . And well, Trader Joes is just Aldi with a different target market. They are owed by the same company (though run independently) and have a similar distribution system where the owned-brand is the predominate type sold. Same concept, different clientele.

You should have taken back that can! That's why they have a double money back guarantee, after all!

(also, Aldi chocolate? I live and breath by their toffee chocolate bars)

[Kitty]

Our bodies need sugars and fats to survive, just not as much as some people tend to give them- or some of the over processed ones that are commonly stuck in processed foods.

That's what I meant- of course we need all that to survive, but the over-processed ones aren't needed at all and people do just fine without them. We also just get way too much.

[maybeizfundie]

I love Aldis. :D At least the one where we live now. Where we lived before the Aldis was wretched. Maybe it's because we're closer to the city now. Anyway, lots of good produce, good prices on dairy, interesting specials, and hummus (hummus!!!!) has been consistently on the shelf for a year now.

I think for the Duggar and Bates family, it may be as much a cultural thing as anything else. Looking around at what's "normal" food around here, and especially as you get into either very rural areas or inner city areas, those families may be eating quite a bit better than many families.

I don't think it's a fundie thing per se. You have just as many whacked-out health-food nuts in the fundie category, who have gone waaaaaaay to the other end of the pendulum swing. "Eliminate all processed foods, feed your children right!" is a rallying cry that's been going around in the homeschool community for as long as I've been aware of it.

[Rosa]

demgirl, I've always done a lot of canning and baking and I just had to sit down and budget my time for this school year and realize I have to give it up. Tomatos didn't come in yet, and i cannot can in September. We're too busy. So, we're going to be buying canned tomatos this winter even though they're not as good.

Our Aldi has rice & beans & tortillas & masa because my neighborhood has so many Mexican and Central American immigrants. And cheap mangos when they can lay hands on them, because of the Somalis. Which is great.

And for me, the reason to buy (and grow) organic isn't what I'm ingesting through the food, it's what the workers and handlers and everyone else (including me) is ingesting in the water and dust. So I wouldn't be surprised if a study of people who EAT organic showed no health differences - but I would be very surprised if apple pickers, fruit washers & cutters, and other people who handle the food before I get it didn't have much better health outcomes when they work with organic growers.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

Another Aldi lover here! I average spending about $50 in there buying the same staples I'd spend $75 on in the regular grocery. I'm choosy about what I purchase there, but ours does really have a great selection.

(also, Aldi chocolate? I live and breath by their toffee chocolate bars)

Omg, the chocolate! :dance: It's worth going there just for the imported chocolates alone!

[Kitchen Princess]

I grew up in the 60's and 70's and we ate much different than we do today. We had bread (white) and butter (margarine) at every dinner, and white potatoes at most dinners. Can you imagine?

Interestingly, though, none of us, including my parents, were obese. Why do you suppose that was?

Everyone smoked.

[PennySycamore]

And for me, the reason to buy (and grow) organic isn't what I'm ingesting through the food, it's what the workers and handlers and everyone else (including me) is ingesting in the water and dust. So I wouldn't be surprised if a study of people who EAT organic showed no health differences - but I would be very surprised if apple pickers, fruit washers & cutters, and other people who handle the food before I get it didn't have much better health outcomes when they work with organic growers.

That's a damn good reason to buy organic when you can. Many of the pesticides and herbicides that get sprayed on crops are highly toxic. We can wash the produce or peel it, but the farm worker is exposed to these chemicals all the time. Agricultural workers can build up very high loads of toxic chemicals over a lifetime. And then there are the accidents -workers getting accidentally sprayed or a worker's child, who came to work with his mom, putting his fingers on the nozzle of a sprayer and then putting those fingers in his mouth.

[QueenMother]

...as the reporter pointed out on the Bates special a couple of times, the Bates (read: fundies) do have a kind of 1950ies lifestyle in certain ways ( for some, even 50 years earlier than that).

Maybe that's what leads them to eating what they eat. While I doubt Tater Tots have been around that long, 60 years ago food supply was nowhere near what it is today.

I realize when I read old recipes and cookbooks that those where nowhere "light" or lean(especially our German ones), but they had to have a ton of calories and had to be able to be made with things easily available because I guess you never could be sure when the next meal was going to take place.

So stuff like homemade cookies with tons of sugar and butter were great, cause they had a lot lot lot of calories.

But we don't live in the 1950ies anymore... maybe Fundies need to realize that. It always bothers me when they publish recipes for homemade cookies, muffins, stuff like that, brag about how everything is homemade, but apparently the idea of a homemade fruit salad doesn't cross their minds very often.

For fundies, the Maxwell's eat healthy. They eat a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables, a lot of which they grow in their own garden. They do eat a rather bland and regular plan, but at least it is healthy. The girls are all very very thin, and the boys (Joseph, John and Jessie) are fit and trim from eating well and working out.

[NurseNell]

I guess what me bothers most is that they act like everything's homemade, but to me "homemade" equals made from scratch and not putting canned soups together.

That's my idea too. And I've never understood why the Duggars don't have a garden. Do the Bates? There's nothing better than starting a pan of water to boil, then going out to pick your corn. My parents only had 4 kids and we grew all our food, raised chickens, and bought a side of beef from a neighboring farmer. My parents were both professionals but felt home grown food was best. And they always cooked from scratch.

Nell

[Patsy]

That's a damn good reason to buy organic when you can. Many of the pesticides and herbicides that get sprayed on crops are highly toxic. We can wash the produce or peel it, but the farm worker is exposed to these chemicals all the time. Agricultural workers can build up very high loads of toxic chemicals over a lifetime. And then there are the accidents -workers getting accidentally sprayed or a worker's child, who came to work with his mom, putting his fingers on the nozzle of a sprayer and then putting those fingers in his mouth.

I had never thought of either of these. s-m-r-t win.

[annalena]

I think it's just that high fat, high sodium food tastes good and the fundies aren't allowed to have much pleasure in their lives, so they get much of their daily dose of fun and pleasure from eating foods that taste good .

It does taste good, but only if you don't know what real homemade food tastes like. For kids it might be different, but what sane adult would choose TTC over a yummy homecooked meal??

[annalena]

Plus they have enough kids to rotate cooking duties among, and a large enough audience for the finished product, that a lot of the "pain in the ass to make but when you do make it, you can easily make food for 30" recipes would surely be worth it - unlike when you live alone or in a very small group. They should be able to run things more like a restaurant even, with massive throughput. The investment in whatever cooking appliances they need would quickly pay off, and from what I've seen of the Duggars' kitchen it seems they're pretty well set up already. Even if they're still buying stuff from the store, you'd think mass bulk ingredients would be cheaper than pre-made, pre-packaged stuff - particularly if they want a higher quality end product than the pre-packaged stuff that tends to go on super sale.

Sorry to be multi-posting, but want to reply to all the interesting thoughts coming up. (Btw- can I quote multiple posts by different users in one post?)

A thought on cooking for 30. I learned to cook fairly early, just because my mom can not cook until the present day. It never bothered me though. I would cook with my Dad on the weekends (who does know how to cook), and up from a certaing age (like, 12) me or my sisters would also cook. We liked it, though. While we were nowhere near 30 people, we were 5, and it was absolutely no problem.

I did have issues at first when I moved out, because I was not used to cooking for only 1 or 2 people, and not sure about quantities. It felt weird to me.

So I think cooking for 30 is not as much of an issue.

But I don't want the girls to have to take on even more responsibilites either...

[annalena]

I grew up in the 60's and 70's and we ate much different than we do today. We had bread (white) and butter (margarine) at every dinner, and white potatoes at most dinners. Can you imagine?

I actually think potatoes are pretty nutritive.

Also, the white bread- some people (like me) can't digest whole weat bread very well. I'm better off with white.

[annalena]

For fundies, the Maxwell's eat healthy. They eat a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables, a lot of which they grow in their own garden. They do eat a rather bland and regular plan, but at least it is healthy. The girls are all very very thin, and the boys (Joseph, John and Jessie) are fit and trim from eating well and working out.

That's just another thing. What about sports for these kids? I mean, all kdis do want to try out judo, ballett, karate, horseback-riding or whatever at one point or the other.

Although I guess, if they don't know it exists...and of course, most of it can't be done in a skirt.

[mirele]

My dad grew up during the Depression and World War II (which had its own restrictions on food) on a farm in east central Oklahoma. He told me that most of the time the food consisted of beans, potatoes and corn. Yes, they used to slaughter hogs and have that meat available on a seasonal basis, yes, there were eggs, milk (but most of that went for sale) and the occasional skinny chicken, but for the most part it was beans, potatoes and corn. My aunt told me how much my grandmother would scowl at her if she dropped a bean while picking it. My aunt's complaint was that those beans looked so much like the rocks that she wasn't sure she was picking up a bean or a rock.

I've seen pictures of my father and his siblings as kids and they were skinny. Of course, they all worked from early in the morning, went to school, came home and worked some more.

Also, to quote my father, "Squirrel is good eatin'." The boys used to hunt critters during World War II.

[oscar]

So I have a fairly productive garden, and I like to pick or buy seasonal produce in bulk to preserve for the rest of the year. I bake all of our bread from scratch, make yogurt and sauerkraut, and so on. That's my idea of "homemade" cooking. I prepare food for 4 people on a regular basis, and it's easy because I grew up doing things this way.

I have cousins whose idea of "homemade" is melting some Velveeta over canned chili and fritos, as opposed to grabbing fast food on their way home from work. To them, my way of cooking is a pretentious hippie waste of time. And I have friends who grind their own flour from grain they grow themselves, grow all their own produce and raise animals for meat, eggs and milk. As far as they're concerned, my way of cooking is not very "homemade" at all.

I think darareaksmey is spot-on with the observation that "[many fundies] seem to think that everyone either lives/eats as they do, or is out there pounding the Quarter Pounders with Cheese night and day," when in fact there is a spectrum of homemade-ness and natural-ness. For some people - fundie or otherwise - this seems to grade into an obsession with purity and control.

And as an aside, if I had to switch my diet to rely on processed food, I'd have to figure out which foods I liked, learn all new recipes and menus, develop a new budget, implement a new shopping schedule, change around my morning and evening routines...it would be a lot of extra work learning to do things in a way I am not used to, even if the actual time I spent preparing food were to decrease in the end. I think a lot of fundie families eat crap foods due to inertia - that's what they know how to do, and the women and girls who do the cooking have other demands on their time and energy.