Jehovah's Witness leader: God hates tight pants

[MissBeaufort]

I was surprised to realize when I started looking into the JW religion that Mormons and JWs actually have quite a lot in common. The two organizations use a lot of similar indoctrination techniques (although Mormons tend to be much better educated and there is SOME extent of freedom of thought where you see things like "feminist Mormons", while the JWs try to keep their followers from pursuing education outside of the organization will basically tell you to GTFO if you ask too many questions about their illogical beliefs).

I guess it shouldn't be surprising they are similar since they came about around the same era. It's just that the Mormons are basically a UFO cult (referring to the Kolob stuff) that grew up around a con artist who wanted to trick as many girls/women as possible to have sex with him, while the JWs are a Doomsday cult that is obsessed with the idea that the world is on the verge of being destroyed by Jehovah so that it can be turned into a paradise solely for the enjoyment of JWs.

The Mormons have a habit of excommunicating their more outspoken feminist members, so I'm not sure that I would give them too much credit in that area (though I do agree with your overall point on Mormons being a bit more relaxed than JW's). Their similarities are definitely interesting though.

The chart up there about college graduation and religious affiliation is fascinating. Where is it from? I would love to read a little more about that.

[busdrivingmom]

I haven't minded the Mormons at my door, they have been polite. I have told them I have family that is Mormon, have read some of the book of Mormon and am quite happy as a Catholic. Usually don't see them for a couple years after that.

The JW, however, seem to come around a lot and now keep leaving literature when I'm not here. If I answer the door or outside doing yard work and they are there, they don't take no for an answer and only leave when I mention calling the police.

I don't like JW overall. My ex's second/third wife was JW and the stuff she would say boggled my mind (we all hung out with mutual friends for a while). She had been disfellowshipped but still would not wear pants or take a blood transfusion if ill. She would talk about her childhood (in public school) she didn't have non-JW friends, could not be in clubs, Scouts or sports, and spent much time trying to convert her classmates. But when they got divorced the second time, she wanted to get back in the good graces of the church.

[Peas n carrots]

Where I live the JW's are setting up book stands on the street/public transit stops with a couple JW's standing behind it. I've been wondering why the change in MO lately?

I also run past a Kingdom Hall several times a week in my nice tight running clothes lol. Hope they enjoyed the view!

[shedemei]

They're doing that near me, too. Every weekend they're out in front of the big stop in a neighborhood near me. They were setting up on the steps of an empty storefront but may have stopped now that it's open.

Seems like a good approach. There's a nearly-captive audience of bored people ripe for being preyed upon.

[Coldwinterskies]

The chart up there about college graduation and religious affiliation is fascinating. Where is it from? I would love to read a little more about that.

I don't know the exact link to the report but it is based on data that Pew had collected in 2007. They have a ton of interesting information on various religious groups at http://religions.pewforum.org

[Coldwinterskies]

Where I live the JW's are setting up book stands on the street/public transit stops with a couple JW's standing behind it. I've been wondering why the change in MO lately?

I also run past a Kingdom Hall several times a week in my nice tight running clothes lol. Hope they enjoyed the view!

:lol:

We still have some JWs who show up in our neighborhood knocking doors, but I have read statistics that they are having a much harder time converting people going door to door than they used to (probably because now the Internet makes it so easy to debunk their beliefs). I imagine they are hoping that they can "save" more people by letting interested people come up to them rather than trying to find the people open to it at home. However, I think that putting themselves out there in public could backfire in a big way since it makes it easier for those of us who recognize the JW org for what it is to call them out.

If you want to have some fun with these JWs who are setting up shop in your neighborhoods, I'd suggest asking them

why the JW org became an NGO with the UN even though the organization has taught that the UN is run by Satan or mention to them that their leader's attempts to first appease Hitler, then anger Hitler when that didn't work, probably were a factor in why Nazis persecuted JWs. Most JWs have no clue about their organization's shady history.

[Jana814]

Well I think my ex-friend became a JW because she is a very gulable person!! I have not seen her since she told me which was about 8.5 years ago. It wouldn't surprise me if she now has 3 or 4 kids and no way to support them.

[Idolatry]

:lol:

We still have some JWs who show up in our neighborhood knocking doors, but I have read statistics that they are having a much harder time converting people going door to door than they used to (probably because now the Internet makes it so easy to debunk their beliefs). I imagine they are hoping that they can "save" more people by letting interested people come up to them rather than trying to find the people open to it at home. However, I think that putting themselves out there in public could backfire in a big way since it makes it easier for those of us who recognize the JW org for what it is to call them out.

If you want to have some fun with these JWs who are setting up shop in your neighborhoods, I'd suggest asking them

why the JW org became an NGO with the UN even though the organization has taught that the UN is run by Satan or mention to them that their leader's attempts to first appease Hitler, then anger Hitler when that didn't work, probably were a factor in why Nazis persecuted JWs. Most JWs have no clue about their organization's shady history.

I live a couple blocks from a small JW hall thing, and we used to get a lot of trainees, if you will. I haven't gotten one in over a year, but that might be because I told them I'm a former mormon/fundamentalist baptist, depending on how I was feeling that day. I don't know enough seventh day propaganda to fake that, but I'm sure that would have worked too.

[16strong]

Where I live the JW's are setting up book stands on the street/public transit stops with a couple JW's standing behind it. I've been wondering why the change in MO lately?

I also run past a Kingdom Hall several times a week in my nice tight running clothes lol. Hope they enjoyed the view!

So that's why most Kingdom Halls don't have windows. :lol:

[Peas n carrots]

:lol:

We still have some JWs who show up in our neighborhood knocking doors, but I have read statistics that they are having a much harder time converting people going door to door than they used to (probably because now the Internet makes it so easy to debunk their beliefs). I imagine they are hoping that they can "save" more people by letting interested people come up to them rather than trying to find the people open to it at home. However, I think that putting themselves out there in public could backfire in a big way since it makes it easier for those of us who recognize the JW org for what it is to call them out.

If you want to have some fun with these JWs who are setting up shop in your neighborhoods, I'd suggest asking them

why the JW org became an NGO with the UN even though the organization has taught that the UN is run by Satan or mention to them that their leader's attempts to first appease Hitler, then anger Hitler when that didn't work, probably were a factor in why Nazis persecuted JWs. Most JWs have no clue about their organization's shady history.

The only people I see talking to the JW's are homeless folks when they are on the street. I've never seen anyone approach them at transit stations. I guess if you are at a transit stop you are trying to get somewhere and don't have time to talk.

[lilwriter85]

I've had mixed experiences with JWs. One of my closest friends from childhood is an ex JW. Her family left when she was a teenager. My friend and one of her siblings married Catholics and converted to Catholicism. One other sibling isn't religious and considers himself agnostic and another along with the parents attends a liberal non-denominational church. During that family's JW years, they weren't too strict or crazy, but some of their fellow JW relatives were more devout and banned a lot things in their households.

I met another JW family in the early 2000s. I was in high school and a had summer job at a restaurant that had an arcade in it. There was a group of women and their daughters that went in weekly. I later found out that they were all JWs and they homeschooled their daughters. Those women were pretty nice and they never pushed any JW pamphlets or literature on me or other employees.

My last encounter with door to door JWs was the past summer when I house sat for my parents. The women who came to the house knew my mother because they were high school classmates.

[Coldwinterskies]

Oh yes, the homeschooling. They apparently have their own homeschooling program, Pearblossom, which tries to downplay its JW connections on their website: http://www.pearblossomschool.com

However if you dig into it you'll notice that one of their sample workbook questions is "All people are born with a ____ nature" (where you are supposed to fill in "selfish") and their idea of a "health textbook" is to use the Questions Young People Ask book series.

Here are some wonderful samples from that book:

“What’s your view of homosexuality?â€

“I don’t hate homosexuals, but I can’t approve of their conduct.â€

Remember: If you’re guided by the Bible’s moral code, then that is your lifestyle choice, and you have a right to it. (Joshua 24:15) Don’t feel ashamed of your view.—Psalm 119:46.

...

Remember this: Homosexuals, along with most people, have some ethical code that causes them to deplore certain things—perhaps fraud, injustice, or war. The Bible prohibits those behaviors; it also draws the line at certain types of sexual conduct, including homosexuality.—1 Corinthians 6:9, 10.

The Bible is not unreasonable, nor does it promote prejudice. It simply directs those with homosexual urges to do the same thing that is required of those with an opposite- sex attraction—to “flee from fornication.â€â€”1Corinthians 6:18.

The fact is, millions of heterosexuals who wish to con- form to the Bible’s standards employ self-control despite any temptations they might face. Their number includes many who are single with little prospect of marriage and many who are married to a disabled partner who is unable to function sexually. They are able to live happily without fulfilling their sexual urges. Those with homosexual inclinations can do the same if they truly want to please God. —Deuteronomy 30:19.

Whether you’re a boy or a girl, if you were to give in to premarital sex, you would be degrading yourself by giving away something precious.

(Romans 1:24) No wonder so many feel empty and worthless afterward, as if they’ve carelessly allowed a precious part of themselves to be stolen! Don’t let that happen to you. If someone tries to coax you into sex by saying, “If you love me, you’ll do this,†firmly reply, “If you love me, you won’t ask!â€

Masturbation instills attitudes that are totally self- centered. For example, when masturbating, a person is immersed in his or her own body sensations.

̆ Masturbation causes one to view those of the opposite sex as mere objects, or tools, for self-gratification.

̆ The selfish thinking that is instilled through the practice of masturbation can make satisfying sexual relations in marriage difficult to achieve.

Rather than resort to masturbation to relieve pent-up sexual urges, strive to cultivate self-control.

While I support people's right to homeschool, I really think there should be standards that parents have to meet in order to prove the kid is getting an adequate education. If your "health education" consists of little more than "Don't have sex and don't touch yourself" then I consider that neglect. Neglecting your child's intellectual development is as harmful as other forms of neglect.

[Howl]

Roy Rogers was THE MAN when it came to rocking tight pants. Whew, ROY! I think even Trigger got excited.

An in-law's JW sibling and that sibling's spouse shunned two (of their three) adult children when the two kids who had been baptized in the church turned their back on the JW religion. Kid #3 was never baptized into the faith, so Kid #3 was never shunned (although had equally abandoned the JW faith), but stood in solidarity with Kids #1 and #2. That's all blood under the bridge now, but it tore that family apart for many years.

Shunning is just horrible. Sadly, it is still in use as a control mechanism.

[Peas n carrots]

Just from reading the anecdotal info from FJ'ers it doesn't seem many second - much less third - people that grow up JW stick with it as adults.

IIRC Prince and Michael Jackson are/were practicing JW's?

[16strong]

Just from reading the anecdotal info from FJ'ers it doesn't seem many second - much less third - people that grow up JW stick with it as adults.

IIRC Prince and Michael Jackson are/were practicing JW's?

I don't think Michael Jackson was. I believe his mother is JW, but I remember reading stories in the news about Michael celebrating his kids' birthdays, so probably not. It's also worth a mention that in general he tried his best to distance himself from anything relating to his childhood.

[lilwriter85]

I don't think Michael Jackson was. I believe his mother is JW, but I remember reading stories in the news about Michael celebrating his kids' birthdays, so probably not. It's also worth a mention that in general he tried his best to distance himself from anything relating to his childhood.

I also remember hearing that MJ's mom was a devout JW. One rumor that I remember reading about was that Michael wanted to throw his mother a birthday party and she agreed to it, if the gifts were placed in brown paper bags.

Prince is still a practicing JW. Venus and Serena Williams were raised JW, I have no idea if they are still practicing. They have gotten some hate on pro JW sites mostly because of their medal ceremonies at the Olympics and saluting the flag. The Williams family also gets some hate from the JWs who are very much against organized sports. Selena, the late Tejano singer was also raised in JW family. Different rumors about that have gone around. One rumor was that she wasn't a practicing JW as an adult and was planning to convert to Catholicism because of her husband. Other rumors are that she was a praciting JW as an adult, but some people don't believe that because of some of the outfits she wore for performances.

[smittykins]

The last I read(which was years ago), Katharine Jackson was raising her grandchildren as JW's, which Michael supposedly was NOT in favor of. I also remember reading* that MJ was a practicing JW--wearing a disguise to do his door-to-door work--while "Thriller" was popular, but did leave at some point afterward.

*I have no idea if it's true or not.

[lilwriter85]

A filmmaker recently made a documentary series on ex JWs

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/danielle- ... 41958.html

http://buy.hereliesthetruth.com/

[SaturnianCatalina]

The last I read(which was years ago), Katharine Jackson was raising her grandchildren as JW's, which Michael supposedly was NOT in favor of. I also remember reading* that MJ was a practicing JW--wearing a disguise to do his door-to-door work--while "Thriller" was popular, but did leave at some point afterward.

*I have no idea if it's true or not.

I'm a huge MJ fan and have read his autobiography Moonwalk. He wrote in that about being a JW and using disguises when going door-to-door, and they kicked him out because of Thriller--that's why there's the disclaimer about the occult at the beginning of the video.

[Coldwinterskies]

If anyone is curious, this ex-JW site has more details on the Michael Jackson stuff. They make it sound like MJ chose to leave voluntarily (when a member leaves by choice it is called "disassociation"'; when the JWs kick a member out because they don't like how that person is behaving then it is called "disfellowshipping").

Finding out more about how the JWs operate makes me feel some empathy for Michael Jackson and how difficult his life must have been. He was part of a religion that all by itself can make people feel like an outsider in normal human society (because of how they make it seem like associating with "worldly" people is dangerous, things like how you can't be part of holidays, birthday celebrations, or even tell people "Bless you" when they sneeze). With the effect of the JWs, on top of how his father was so abusive to him and the often damaging way the show biz industry treats child stars, what chance did he really have of turning out to be a "normal" person?

In spite of all the money he made, I truly feel bad for the guy. He probably was very confused and conflicted. I would be if I had grown up in those circumstances.

[formergothardite]

I don't think Michael Jackson was. I believe his mother is JW, but I remember reading stories in the news about Michael celebrating his kids' birthdays, so probably not. It's also worth a mention that in general he tried his best to distance himself from anything relating to his childhood.

In one of the documentaries about him there is part of it is that shows when Michael celebrated his first Christmas because Elizabeth Taylor got him to. He talks about how he enjoyed it and was excited but felt guilty because he had been raised to see doing this as doing something bad. He ends up in the bathroom crying because of the feeling of guilt that he still felt after being raised JW. Watching that I could relate because when even now I have feelings of guilt when I do certain things that I was raised to view as a horrible sin.

[Coldwinterskies]

In one of the documentaries about him there is part of it is that shows when Michael celebrated his first Christmas because Elizabeth Taylor got him to. He talks about how he enjoyed it and was excited but felt guilty because he had been raised to see doing this as doing something bad. He ends up in the bathroom crying because of the feeling of guilt that he still felt after being raised JW. Watching that I could relate because when even now I have feelings of guilt when I do certain things that I was raised to view as a horrible sin.

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of things do you find it hard to do that would seem normal and harmless to others?

I feel bad for both Jackson and for you. It is sad when people have to live with unnecessary guilt over something that doesn't actually hurt anyone. To me, the people who taught you to feel bad over harmless things are guilty of brainwashing and emotional abuse.

[Cleopatra7]

I also remember hearing that MJ's mom was a devout JW. One rumor that I remember reading about was that Michael wanted to throw his mother a birthday party and she agreed to it, if the gifts were placed in brown paper bags.

Prince is still a practicing JW. Venus and Serena Williams were raised JW, I have no idea if they are still practicing. They have gotten some hate on pro JW sites mostly because of their medal ceremonies at the Olympics and saluting the flag. The Williams family also gets some hate from the JWs who are very much against organized sports. Selena, the late Tejano singer was also raised in JW family. Different rumors about that have gone around. One rumor was that she wasn't a practicing JW as an adult and was planning to convert to Catholicism because of her husband. Other rumors are that she was a praciting JW as an adult, but some people don't believe that because of some of the outfits she wore for performances.

I've always been fascinated how Michael Jackson and Selena were raised JW, given how this group seems to be totally against the arts. You never hear about JWs creating great works of art or music or even aesthetically pleasing functional wares, like the Shakers or the Amish. The Kingdom Hall buildings are designed to be as dull or uninspiring as possible, I guess because a beautiful house of worship would be "worldly" or "popish." I went on YouTube to look up JW hymns and they were all devoid of artistic content as far as I could tell.

[formergothardite]

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of things do you find it hard to do that would seem normal and harmless to others?

I feel bad for both Jackson and for you. It is sad when people have to live with unnecessary guilt over something that doesn't actually hurt anyone. To me, the people who taught you to feel bad over harmless things are guilty of brainwashing and emotional abuse.

It is still hard for me to go buy a bottle of wine without having feelings of guilt and "I hope nobody sees me." thoughts going through my head. Wine was an evil drink and I had made a covenant with God that I would never let alcohol touch my lips and even though I no longer believe all that, the feelings are still there. It took me till I was in my 30's before I could actually even try alcohol even though I really wanted to do so before then.

It took a long time before I could do something as simple as going to a movie theater without feeling guilty and looking around hoping nobody saw me.

The first time I bought shorts that did not come practically to my knees it took me awhile to finally get up the nerve to wear them out in public. And the whole time I felt really weird and like I was doing something wrong.

[Trynn]

It is still hard for me to go buy a bottle of wine without having feelings of guilt and "I hope nobody sees me." thoughts going through my head. Wine was an evil drink and I had made a covenant with God that I would never let alcohol touch my lips and even though I no longer believe all that, the feelings are still there. It took me till I was in my 30's before I could actually even try alcohol even though I really wanted to do so before then.

It took a long time before I could do something as simple as going to a movie theater without feeling guilty and looking around hoping nobody saw me.

The first time I bought shorts that did not come practically to my knees it took me awhile to finally get up the nerve to wear them out in public. And the whole time I felt really weird and like I was doing something wrong.

Sounds like you were raised Adventist, as those are things I struggle with as well, along with:

1. Wearing jewelry

2. Watching tv on Saturday

3. Not reason my bible every day

4. Going out to eat on Saturday

5. Dancing. I still have not learned how to dance because I get so nervous and I can't find the beat or rhythm or whatever the hell people are talking about.

6. Dressing to express myself

I'm sure there are more, but I have to go so stuff now and hope grandmas not too pissed at me for skipping church.