? Fundie family loses kids

[Fargood]

Eczema can be serious. My infant daughter fell ill with the enterovirus this November. She was the only child in the community to be hospitalized and the reason was because her severe eczema allowed normally harmless staph bacteria to infiltrate her system. She became septic, started into kidney failure and nearly died.

We were lucky that a doctor finally listened to us and didn't just shrug and say, "clip her nails and moisturize." Well, duh.

The only thing that worked for her was a powerful steroid.

[lulumama]

Reading all this my heart is heavy, I don't hold out much hope for those babies unless there is a lot of intervention and support. The parents need to understand the very specific needs of their babies. So far the father especially doesn't seem open to help. Any family with 3 children under 1 would need help. I wish there was a way to just hold those babies when they cry. :cry2:

[NurseNell]

Reading all this my heart is heavy, I don't hold out much hope for those babies unless there is a lot of intervention and support. The parents need to understand the very specific needs of their babies. So far the father especially doesn't seem open to help. Any family with 3 children under 1 would need help. I wish there was a way to just hold those babies when they cry. :cry2:

I am a peds R.N. I would need help with 3 children under one, especially if the father was an asshole.

[GeoBQn]

I predict the family is going to go "sparkling Lauren," moving around a lot to evade supervision and CPS reporting. Hopefully that will not involve murder.

[Howl]

bellinghamherald.com/2014/12/05/4012570/court-return-rengo-children-to.html?sp=/99/101/

Erica's mom, Kim C. Smith, comments a lot, and boy, is she not happy about the situation and the relationship. i think she really is the grandmother because she started a GoFundMe for the twins: gofundme.com/gjkyf4

WHOA, Kim C. Smith, tell us what you REALLY think. She sounds furious as hell about Cleave. To read her comments, go to the link above and scroll down to the comments section. If you've come this far following the odyssey, you might as well see what the grandmother of the babies thinks.

I did notice in one article that Cleave is 24 and Erica is 29. Just another odd detail in that relationship.

Oh, what the heck. Here are some of Kim's comments that lay it all out:

pretty sure I already commented here but again, I am the Grandmother and there certainly was more to the story. CPS did the right thing. Its their job to protect children from crazy stupid people like Cleave Rengo who has my daughter captive as his so called wife and keeps her knocked up in the crazy town of Bellingham Wa. She is terrifed of him and he dictates all she does and did not let her get prenatal care or go to the hospital or use the medication for my grandson. He stopped her from using formua when I put them on it when they twins were failing to thrive. He should be in jail. If only there was a some way I could use the law to get him away from my daughter like CPS could at least take the kids from him. Everybody go back to your own lives, theres nothing to see around here. America doesn't care about a woman who is under a dictator like control of a so called Christian man.

thats exactly true and it wont be long before Cleave takes them back to southern Wa. to hide and manipulate the system again as he has done in the past. He started this and it is the only life he has ever known since he came form this kind of craziness. my daughter was a college educated beautiful girl who has traveled the world and worked as volunteer with red cross and green peace etc. she got mixed up with this homeless kid in Wa. when she was alone and vulnerable. He keeps her sequestered from her family and openly blamed me in court for all of this when in fact he started it and even invited CPS in 2 years ago to lord it over my daughter to control her. THIS IS A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND MENTAL ILLNESS ISSUE NOT A CPS ONE. I WISH EVERYONE WOULD REALIZE THAT.

Erica's mom is in Texas, so is unable to be close enough to directly assist her daughter, although it sounds as though she was able to doe some things early on, such as supplemental feedings for the twins.

[karen77]

Well, I don't like they she called B'ham "crazy"!! It's a great town! (thus the cost of living is nice an high).

[Mama Mia]

Well, I don't like they she called B'ham "crazy"!! It's a great town! (thus the cost of living is nice an high).

Bellingham is gorgeous! One of my best friends moved there years ago to escape our even higher cost of living town :) . Seems like a wonderful place to raise children.

[Evilbad]

Sounds a lot like the Lethbridges. Child after chld removed for abuse, neglect, and squalor. But they were innocent! The state just wanted their cute white babies to adopt out!

Sadly, one of the children was killed in fostercare. It's a sad, horrifying case.

[DGayle]

Partial rewrite and numerous edits of my original post. If any of these details are wrong, please correct.

I found a few more snippets of information that might be of interest or at least they were of great interest to me, to fit together missing pieces that have to do with references to the numerous police visits to the couple, mental illness and domestic violence.

"In a hearing before Whatcom County Superior Court Commissioner Thomas Verge this week, the state attempted to show an unstable household marked by numerous contacts with law enforcement — 14 in Whatcom County and seven in Vancouver, Wash., when the couple lived there."

From the Bellingham Herald summary of the hearing: "Under questioning from Assistant Attorney General Rob Olson, she summarized the police reports involving the couple and the concerns that those contacts with law enforcement indicated a pattern of domestic problems and mental health issues in the home."

From the Web site of a classic rock station (gotta love the interwebs) there is an audio bar with a comment from a "A neighbor and friend of the couple, who asked to remain anonymous, [who] says there’s more to the story." In the audio clip, this person notes that there was a lot of screaming, babies crying and there were problems with the dad being off his medication, and there were mental problems...with him.

You can listen to the audio clip here. From what I can tell from a summary of the most recent hearing, the dad referred to above as being off his medication is NOT Cleave, but Bruce Rengo, Cleave's dad. Cleave has other issues that were addressed in the hearing.

Interestingly, Erica Carey (the mom) "had been born at home herself and her mother was a home-birth educator and leader in La Leche League, a breastfeeding support organization."

And yes, CPS did recommend supplemental feeding for the babies.

Update:

Just came across this information from the Bellingham Herald with an an excellent summary of the case:

Assistant Attorney General Rob Olson this week laid out a case that detailed the family’s numerous contacts with law enforcement since 2013 — 14 in Whatcom County and seven when the couple lived elsewhere in Washington state; refusal or resistance to providing medical care for the children; concern about the twins being underweight; domestic disputes between the couple; Cleave Rengo being controlling of Carey; and Bruce Rengo’s mental health issues, which had included a two-month hospitalization when he stopped taking his medication for bipolar disorder.

As noted, Bruce Rengo is Cleave's dad.

Olson also presented information about Cleave Rengo’s arrest in Battle Ground, when the couple had stayed there and Carey was eight months pregnant with Levi. The original charges included domestic violence and resisting arrest, but the domestic violence charge was dropped in a plea agreement, which included the mandate that Cleave Rengo undergo anger management. But he hadn’t yet completed the anger management requirement and there was a warrant out for his arrest, which concerned the state.

In telling the parents about his decision, [Whatcom County Superior Court commissioner] Verge said to them: “As new parents, you two need help to learn how to parent better.â€

He discounted the contention that no domestic violence occurred because there was no physical violence.

“You feel you have the right to control your spouse, you do not,†he said to Cleave Rengo. (The couple see themselves as husband and wife even though they haven’t yet married.)

So very many problems here.

So let me get this right: at the time the babies were removed, there were 6 people in a one-bedroom apartment: three infants under 1 year old, one person with anger management/control issues and another who had stopped taking medication for bi-polar disorder. Is this correct?

This was an inherently unstable environment that can't be healthy for infants and NONE OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH BREAST FEEDING OR HOME BIRTH.

The father also has an active warrant our for his arrest, which, at this time, the state isn't acting on.

This is a horrifying situation. People all over my Facebook wall are saying how wrong it was for CPS to get involved. This is really a bad situation.

[DGayle]

bellinghamherald.com/2014/12/05/4012570/court-return-rengo-children-to.html?sp=/99/101/

Erica's mom, Kim C. Smith, comments a lot, and boy, is she not happy about the situation and the relationship. i think she really is the grandmother because she started a GoFundMe for the twins: gofundme.com/gjkyf4

Those babies shouldn't be back with their parents. This is scary, and it sounds a whole lot like the judge is expecting the babies to get taken again.

[Howl]

What is distressing is that Cleave and Erica are giving interviews claiming the CPS issues revolve totally around breast feeding/home birth and getting an incredible amount of support for that. This makes me think they will be very unwilling to grapple with their personal problems with a lengthy history of domestic upset to create a safe, mentally healthy and stable home for their infants. I do seriously wish them the best, that they can accept the support they need.

In addition, no article that I've seen mentions Cleave having a job. Based on their living with the father, I'm wondering if he (Rengo) is living on some type of disability check related to his mental illness and this is their source of income for all of them?

Also, lactation experts out there, will Erica be able to resume breast feeding after a two-month pause, or perhaps she was pumping milk for her babies while they were in CPS custody.

[nelliebelle1197]

Erica's mother needs to get off the comments. She may have to take legal action someday and she does not need this kind of trail.

[2xx1xy1JD]

CPS actions can really vary from place to place.

From my experience, I can say that workers are more concerned when dealing with very young babies. There's not a huge margin for error - tiny babies can starve to death, be shaken to death, suffer broken ribs from an angry parent, etc. (and in fact, these are things that happened in some of our cases). On a totally cynical, institutional level, having a baby die under the nose of child protection officials was considered a nightmare scenario. I saw that after one high-profile newborn starvation case here, officials were quite quick to intervene in other cases where infant feeding was a concern (like mother who refused to read formula instructions, or who didn't have tiny babies weighed and followed by a doctor, or who were formula feeding but didn't have enough formula at home and had underweight babies).

I also have extreme issues with the fear mongers, because they actively make situations worse.

CPS doesn't traffic babies. They don't get involved for trivial reasons. They aren't part of some vast conspiracy. They are often overworked and under-resourced, and workers constantly have to wonder if things are bad enough to intervene, and if children can safely be left with their families. Many cases that they investigate will never go anywhere, and the file will be closed at intake.

I've gotten calls from parents in a blind panic, however, because they googled and found some of the paranoia websites. These otherwise normal parents then don't want to cooperate when child protection workers call them. If there is no cooperation, something that would have been routine and quickly closed turns into something bigger. CPS tends to love cooperative parents - even if they suck at parenting - because they can trust them and work with them to become better. OTOH, CPS workers panic when they encounter hostile parents or those who refuse any cooperation and try to flee. I've seen kids apprehended into care over less serious concerns precisely because parents refused normal cooperation.

[Walking Cat Bed]

Those poor babies. They deserve so much better than starving and neglect and an abusive environment.

[PennySycamore]

I know a bit about tandem nursing (breastfeeding siblings who are not twins) and breastfeeding during pregnancy as well as breastfeeding the premie both from having done it and from helping mothers breastfeed for over 30 years. It's fine, in most cases, for a mom to keep on breast-feeding during pregnancy although it can be uncomfortable for the mother. The continued nursing does not negatively affect the fetus. However, if the mother is on a prenatal protocol where sexual intercourse is not allowed because it is feared to might cause contractions, then weaning may be medically indicated. Mothers also have little trouble breastfeeding a toddler and a newborn, although the newborn should get first dibs at the breast. The toddler can help mom with an overactive letdown or engorgement though. Like browncoatslytherin said, most premies will need some supplement of some kind. If a premie is under 3000 g, then fortification of its milk is fairly standard. Some mothers of premies can pump enough for their baby(ies) and some, especially those of very low birthweight babies or very early premies, struggle to produce enough milk. It is not known exactly why. Premies may need pre- and post-feed weights taken with a medical grade scale to make sure they are getting adequate milk and feeding effectively.

[JMarie]

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

I really really really really really hope there's no gun in that house.

[Walking Cat Bed]

I agree JMarie.

[roddma]

I dont think anyone is insisting on draconian measures but helping women make informed choices especially when another life is at stake. The real losers in these cases are the kids. They cant help how they come in the world or control if the mother gets parental care. It is ironic how conservatives only support choice in cases which supports their agenda. They see speaking out about the risk of home birth as anti-woman while taking away her birth control. SO many kids have birth defects or even die at birth in the name of 'choice'.

[dianapavelovna]

CPS actions can really vary from place to place.

From my experience, I can say that workers are more concerned when dealing with very young babies. There's not a huge margin for error - tiny babies can starve to death, be shaken to death, suffer broken ribs from an angry parent, etc. (and in fact, these are things that happened in some of our cases). On a totally cynical, institutional level, having a baby die under the nose of child protection officials was considered a nightmare scenario. I saw that after one high-profile newborn starvation case here, officials were quite quick to intervene in other cases where infant feeding was a concern (like mother who refused to read formula instructions, or who didn't have tiny babies weighed and followed by a doctor, or who were formula feeding but didn't have enough formula at home and had underweight babies).

I also have extreme issues with the fear mongers, because they actively make situations worse.

CPS doesn't traffic babies. They don't get involved for trivial reasons. They aren't part of some vast conspiracy. They are often overworked and under-resourced, and workers constantly have to wonder if things are bad enough to intervene, and if children can safely be left with their families. Many cases that they investigate will never go anywhere, and the file will be closed at intake.

I've gotten calls from parents in a blind panic, however, because they googled and found some of the paranoia websites. These otherwise normal parents then don't want to cooperate when child protection workers call them. If there is no cooperation, something that would have been routine and quickly closed turns into something bigger. CPS tends to love cooperative parents - even if they suck at parenting - because they can trust them and work with them to become better. OTOH, CPS workers panic when they encounter hostile parents or those who refuse any cooperation and try to flee. I've seen kids apprehended into care over less serious concerns precisely because parents refused normal cooperation.

In the risk assessment my state does initially, there's a whole section for "response to intervention." No one is going to be happy CPS is knocking, but a willingness to work with the agency can make a big difference.

It sounds like they're monitoring the return home, so I hope the family has a good caseworker that will help them to make the most of their services.

[PennySycamore]

What is distressing is that Cleave and Erica are giving interviews claiming the CPS issues revolve totally around breast feeding/home birth and getting an incredible amount of support for that. This makes me think they will be very unwilling to grapple with their personal problems with a lengthy history of domestic upset to create a safe, mentally healthy and stable home for their infants. I do seriously wish them the best, that they can accept the support they need.

In addition, no article that I've seen mentions Cleave having a job. Based on their living with the father, I'm wondering if he (Rengo) is living on some type of disability check related to his mental illness and this is their source of income for all of them?

Also, lactation experts out there, will Erica be able to resume breast feeding after a two-month pause, or perhaps she was pumping milk for her babies while they were in CPS custody.

Yes, Erica may be able to resume breastfeeding, but it takes work and knowhow and it would help if Erica were pumping or hand expressing in the interim. It certainly can be done.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Yes, Erica may be able to resume breastfeeding, but it takes work and knowhow and it would help if Erica were pumping or hand expressing in the interim. It certainly can be done.

It's theoretically possible. In my experience, however, CPS generally did a lousy job of supporting breastfeeding moms to make this possible.

In theory, it might not put the babies at risk to have even daily access with the mom so that she could nurse. It would just create a ton of work for everyone to make this happen.

I was appalled in one of my cases when a new child protection worker apprehended a tot who was still nursing and allergic to milk, and didn't have a plan in place for making sure that the tot's nutrition needs would be met. When I asked, I was told, "Oh, it's ok, I picked up some apple juice because he can't have milk".

[Eponine]

wow, i had never heard that before. i didn't know eczema could lead to death like that. i mean, it makes sense, but it's just not something i would have thought of before.

When I was about 12 I had an eczema outbreak that got so infected I definitely would have died without "real medicine." My parents didn't realize just how infected it had gotten and waited for an appointment with a specialist - who immediately sent me to the hospital. Even then I was pretty lucky to not lose my foot/leg. If my parents had only used homeopathy before that I probably wouldn't have even made it that far. I see people and articles (not here) making light of the eczema treatment issue, but I shudder to think what would have happened if that child had gotten a bad infection.

[Mama Mia]

It's theoretically possible. In my experience, however, CPS generally did a lousy job of supporting breastfeeding moms to make this possible.

In theory, it might not put the babies at risk to have even daily access with the mom so that she could nurse. It would just create a ton of work for everyone to make this happen.

I was appalled in one of my cases when a new child protection worker apprehended a tot who was still nursing and allergic to milk, and didn't have a plan in place for making sure that the tot's nutrition needs would be met. When I asked, I was told, "Oh, it's ok, I picked up some apple juice because he can't have milk".

:shock: I've always found it really strange that CPS workers generally don't seem to receive a lot of training on actual infant and child development. Or have to do internships at childcare centers or something. For practical issues like food, but also for just general knowledge and experience of how children behave at different ages. I would assume they have to take some courses in child psychology for their degree, but that's not the same as just the nitty gritty day to day basics.

[DGayle]

They see speaking out about the risk of home birth as anti-woman while taking away her birth control.

Because hospital births also have risks, and only talking about how home births is so very dangerous is a scare tactic to get women to make the choice you'd make. Each woman needs to be able to look at the risks and benefits to both places and to birthing centers without anyone crying "X births are so dangerous!" The reality is that homebirths are safer for some women, and hospital births are safer for some, and what's very dangerous is insisting that every woman must have the same risks, and the hospitals and home birth midwives they have access too must all be the same, so it's all the same.

Wanting to leave access to birth control while trying to scare women into the birth choice you'd make isn't a whole lot better than taking away birth control while while leaving the birth place choices in tact.

[DGayle]

In the risk assessment my state does initially, there's a whole section for "response to intervention." No one is going to be happy CPS is knocking, but a willingness to work with the agency can make a big difference.

How does your state react to parents who refuse to allow workers into their homes before calling attorneys? I know some people say shut up and cooperate right away because calling an attorney can be called noncooperative, while others say that you should always call an attorney first if you can afford it.