? Fundie family loses kids

[JMarie]

This one has been making the rounds on antivax/crunchy FB pages. Anyone in Washington state know anything about this?

king5.com/story/news/local/bellingham/2014/12/03/bellingham-couple-fights-cps-custody-home-birth-natural-remedies/19819989/

[browncoatslytherin]

i hadn't heard of this before now, but it sounds like quite the clusterfuck. there has to be more to this story than what the parents are telling. cps doesn't just take away kids because of home births...if that was the case, there would be a LOT more kids in the system. methinks there's some sort of medical neglect that the parents aren't revealing.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I have been following this. They are due back in court in an hour actually.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Updates can be found here

facebook.com/pages/Reunite-Rengo-Family-Legal-Fund/735565633195925

[browncoatslytherin]

if anyone spies any updates not on fb (can't access from my work), please link them here! work has me busy today :( i'm a sad panda.

[NoneandDoneinCali]

I'm not going to lie, these people sound batshit crazy to me. No prenatal care, to the point where you are unaware of having twins. Treating what they, in their non-medical-crazy-fundie experience assume is "eczema" (probably never properly diagnosed, and who knows how severe) with essential oil. NO WELLNESS CHECK FOR THE NEONATES. I would not ever think a mere homebirth was grounds for a CPS visit (the statement by CPS confirms this). But this sounds like medical neglect to me. CPS probably asked them to take their kids for a check-up like any reasonable parent would do without prompting, these parents refused, ergo they lost their kids until the court hearing, where they will presumably be given them back.

This presumes that the stated issues are the only problems - we don't know the living conditions, possible abuse, etc. For all we know, they have 15 cats and the "eczema" is allergies.

[Jana814]

Interesting story. They only knew each other a few hours before marriage? Not sure how I feel about the kids being taken away, I wonder like someone said above their must be more to the story.

[GeoBQn]

It sounds like there are serious mental issues going on. According to the article, the couple knew each other for a few hours before they got . . . engaged? Married? Whatever it was, they aren't legally married. They just said their vows without any witnesses besides G-d. "Soon after" that, they conceived their first son. Then "almost immediately" after he was born, they conceived their twins. They now have three children under 1.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

They did take the kid to the Dr. for eczema and told the Dr. they were going to use homepathic treatments first, which the Dr. was ok with. Lots of people use all sorts of creams and such to try and see what helps eczema.

And do you want it to be a law that a woman has to seek not just prenatal care, but govt mandated physician approved prenatal care with forced interventions? A woman should be able to birth however she wants to.

And they did supplement the babies and the babies DID gain weight and they showed this to CPS who still took them. They even went to the hospital after birth to appease the paramedics even though they were all fine. They don't sound like they are against medical care. And who cares if they are not legally married?

[Childless]

I don't buy that it was just home birthing or eczema. There's something else going on that hasn't been reported. CPS can barely manage the children they currently have in the system. I highly doubt they're running around seeking out more kids. Someone reported this family, CPS investigated, and something triggered the removal of the children. Plenty of people home birth. Plenty of kids have untreated eczema. I'm sure neither of those are the reasons the children were put into custody.

[NoneandDoneinCali]

They did take the kid to the Dr. for eczema and told the Dr. they were going to use homepathic treatments first, which the Dr. was ok with. Lots of people use all sorts of creams and such to try and see what helps eczema.

And do you want it to be a law that a woman has to seek not just prenatal care, but govt mandated physician approved prenatal care with forced interventions? A woman should be able to birth however she wants to.

And they did supplement the babies and the babies DID gain weight and they showed this to CPS who still took them. They even went to the hospital after birth to appease the paramedics even though they were all fine. They don't sound like they are against medical care. And who cares if they are not legally married?

If you're talking to me, I am basing the entirety of my assessment on the link to the article. No information about supplements/doctors visits/etc was presented. How do you know about this? I'm not doubting you, but a cursory Google search didn't share ANY of that info.

I didn't say that I believe we should live in a Draconian world where pregnant women are forced into state institutions for the duration of their pregnancies. If you decide to never have an ultrasound - I think you're nuts. But it's not illegal. Planned, unassisted home birth (please note I said UNASSISTED)? Idiotic and risky, IMO. Best of luck to you and the babies. Not a criminal offense. Want to give the finger to vulnerable populations and herd immunity by not vaccinating an otherwise healthy child? You may not be able to send your kid to public school (at least for a while). But have at it.

As I said, there is more to this story. I work with CPS (albeit in California), and it takes an act of gawd to remove children from the home. There may be a short 24-48 hours if they're in "imminent danger," while waiting for a hearing. It's a necessary evil. But to remove breastfeeding infants, with only weekly supervised visits? I will guaranty there is more going on - an extremely filthy living situation, medical neglect of some sort (not just mild eczema), a pattern of lack of food. CPS can't disclose details because it involves minors.

**to clarify - I don't work FOR CPS, I work at a temporary housing shelter where I am a mandated reporter, and many of my clients have to follow CPS parenting plans.

[salex]

Though there were calls to the home about domestic issues prior to the children's birth, the petition claims no evidence of "clear and present danger," rather that CPS is trying to impose their standards of "proper parenting."

This little aside in the article made me perk up my ears a bit.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I read it in other articles linked on that fb page. Btw I don't think they're fundie Christian, I think this is an assumption by the author based on their quotes about God. Her fb is all about love and light, new age hippie Buddhist things.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I, too, want to hear what the other factors are. Admittedly we are only hearing one side to the story.

[lulumama]

Yikes this is right in my backyard and I haven't heard a thing about it. I'll watch the news tonight and let you know if I find out anything about this.

I to think there must be some facts about the childcare, or lack of it, that CPS is not reporting. As a retired mandated reporter I know it is extremely rare for children to be taken away from parents in Washington State. The parents look very young, I wonder where their parents are?

[lulumama]

This is from the FB page of a very conservative state rep. North of Bellingham. It does give a little more info on this story.

Jason Overstreet with Erica May

Yesterday at 1:47pm ·

UPDATE: The Rengo Family placement hearing was moved up this morning to 10 a.m. from the scheduled 4 p.m. hearing. I will withhold comment on that move. Security was heavy. The courtroom was packed. The allotted timeframe was 1 hour with an expected decision on placement either with the parents or a semi-permanent out of family placement. If your a poker player, this will be your "tell." The State Attorney General's Office stood in place of the County legal team in the prosecution of this hearing. A rare move indeed. Attorney General Ferguson, the same AG who is persecuting Christian business owners for refusing to participate in weddings that conflict with their closely held religious beliefs, sent his legal team to take over in an attempt to spare the State embarrassment. The Attorney General's Office took the entire hour, discussing police reports where no arrests were made, save one, prior to the birth of the children. No mention of the babies' health and welfare was even attempted by the State. The court commissioner was frustrated at the State's extended attempt to muddy the water, even commenting on the rare nature of such extended testimony on a case that should be cut and dried after a forcible taking of children from their parents. The hearing was extended to tomorrow at 2:30 on the 4th floor of the Whatcom County Courthouse, where he demanded that the State rap up and allow the family's legal team to present it's case. Constitutional Attorney Steven Pidgeon petitioned the court for a writ of habeus corpus, asking that the charges be laid or the children be released to the parents. The writ of habeus corpus, a fundamental tool of liberty guaranteed by both our State and Federal Constitutions, was ignored by the court, the clerk stating that they hadn't even seen one in 20 years, with one judge refusing to even look at the writ.

There is much talk of "more to the story." There certainly is. There always is. If you are tempted to make that statement, ask yourself where your information is coming from and what the validity of that information actually is. This is not a comfortable conversation, it's true. I shudder the horror of your family, or mine, under a microscope of the bureaucracy that is CPS

[Escapefromfundiedom]

They did take the kid to the Dr. for eczema and told the Dr. they were going to use homepathic treatments first, which the Dr. was ok with. Lots of people use all sorts of creams and such to try and see what helps eczema.

And do you want it to be a law that a woman has to seek not just prenatal care, but govt mandated physician approved prenatal care with forced interventions? A woman should be able to birth however she wants to.

And they did supplement the babies and the babies DID gain weight and they showed this to CPS who still took them. They even went to the hospital after birth to appease the paramedics even though they were all fine. They don't sound like they are against medical care. And who cares if they are not legally married?

Thank you for saying this - all of this!!! As someone who 1) would consider a (certified midwife attended) homebirth in the future and 2) prefers to try more natural approaches to medical care before blasting things with steroids/antibiotics/etc (but will do those things too if necessary - and has doctors and peds who are supportive and helpful with this approach)...this story freaks me the fuck out. I am really hoping there are other details that come out that make it make more sense.

[Four is Enough]

Considering that I've been a foster parent, I know a little about why parents lose their children. Nothing that these parents are saying gives me any reason to believe that they were unfit; however, the children are gone. I believe that no diligent CPS worker would remove a baby for eczema unless it was clear that skin integrity wasn't compatible with health.

Something else is going on here.

[NoneandDoneinCali]

Okay - I read that the mother ran from authorities when they came to collect the children on November 6th. She took the children and ran out the back and tried to hide at a neighbor's house. So ... something undisclosed happened that caused the authorities to come collect the children (the babies were at 5 weeks, so it wasn't immediate), and, instead of speaking with the authorities, the mother absconded. The EMTs were called AFTER the birth, after pressure from family and friends to get checked by a doctor because of how tiny the twins were (not sure who/how). The mother also said she got prenatal care but not "from a doctor" (WTF).

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/cpshomebirth.asp (Snopes, so I didn't break the link)

I must be menstrual, because I got pretty annoyed with some of the FB comments. I mean, countless people claimed that CPS removes children "for the money," like there is a conspiratorial commission system. What even is that. I'm pretty sure everyone's crunchy but responsible birth plans and allopathic health care decisions are safe!

[NotALoserLikeYou]

The case has been continued until Friday.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Thank you for saying this - all of this!!! As someone who 1) would consider a (certified midwife attended) homebirth in the future and 2) prefers to try more natural approaches to medical care before blasting things with steroids/antibiotics/etc (but will do those things too if necessary - and has doctors and peds who are supportive and helpful with this approach)...this story freaks me the fuck out. I am really hoping there are other details that come out that make it make more sense.

I had a homebirth with a nurse midwife so I was a little defensive. I just feel strongly like, I'm the pregnant one so I make the rules, from abortion to delivery. Obviously not saying a woman should use crack or anything like that.

[Coco]

Okay - I read that the mother ran from authorities when they came to collect the children on November 6th. She took the children and ran out the back and tried to hide at a neighbor's house. So ... something undisclosed happened that caused the authorities to come collect the children (the babies were at 5 weeks, so it wasn't immediate), and, instead of speaking with the authorities, the mother absconded. The EMTs were called AFTER the birth, after pressure from family and friends to get checked by a doctor because of how tiny the twins were (not sure who/how). The mother also said she got prenatal care but not "from a doctor" (WTF).

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/cpshomebirth.asp (Snopes, so I didn't break the link)

I must be menstrual, because I got pretty annoyed with some of the FB comments. I mean, countless people claimed that CPS removes children "for the money," like there is a conspiratorial commission system. What even is that. I'm pretty sure everyone's crunchy but responsible birth plans and allopathic health care decisions are safe!

I wonder if it was a combination of her running away with the kids, and perhaps it being a lotus birth or something similar - where they kept the placenta(s) around and was alarming enough to the cps workers to have them think the kids were at health risk. People do keep them, i've seen homemade bags for them for sale on etsy that have been described as smelling "earthy" after a while, even with the daily washing (salting? i have no idea) ritual - :ew: etsy.com/listing/128577320/pinkpurple-lotus-birth-kit-for-use-with?ref=sr_gallery_10&ga_search_query=placenta+bags&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery.

I have an fb friend who had hers freeze dried and encasulated, or something... the earth mama scene is getting a little odd these days, no offense meant to anyone who is into natural things. But if this couple is young and overwhelmed with little kids, keeping something like that around could get dangerous to their health pretty quickly.

So... maybe that was part of it? Just conjecture.

[polecat]

They did take the kid to the Dr. for eczema and told the Dr. they were going to use homepathic treatments first, which the Dr. was ok with. Lots of people use all sorts of creams and such to try and see what helps eczema.

And do you want it to be a law that a woman has to seek not just prenatal care, but govt mandated physician approved prenatal care with forced interventions? A woman should be able to birth however she wants to.

And they did supplement the babies and the babies DID gain weight and they showed this to CPS who still took them. They even went to the hospital after birth to appease the paramedics even though they were all fine. They don't sound like they are against medical care. And who cares if they are not legally married?

Two of my kids have eczema - one of them severe. In fact, medications often are ineffective. What works best for him is straight cocoa butter just greased all up on his skin. He can only use Cetaphil in the bath and even at that has to limit his bathing -- daily showers leave his skin with open weeping sores. My other eczema kid just uses a commercial OTC eczema lotion, and that keeps his patches under control.

Also, eczema IS related to allergies. My severe kid becomes a mess of sores in the spring when the pollen counts are high. It's horrible. Looks pretty much like this: freederm.com/html_images/before%20legs.jpg Ditching the cats (if the kid is allergic) might lessen the severity of the rash, but it's not going to make the eczema go away.

[SamE]

My son had a patch of eczema on his cheek for a long time. The doctor knows I am a little crunchy about medicine, so he recommended that we get a little more sunlight without using sunscreen. It worked!

My son and I both have wicked dry, sensitive skin. We both have eye allergies, too. No Tide detergent or Ivory soap for either if us. Jergens lotion by the gallon (lol), white Dove soap, cheap laundry detergent. Plain Vaseline works well for me on my face and hands. No daily baths for him.

He's even allergic to lavender. It burns like his skin is on fire.

Noxema, Cover Girl products, and Ivory soap do that to me.

We have a cat and a dog. Even though I have allergies. Not a biggie. THey can't sleep with me, though.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Republican state representative Jason Overstreet is involved and posted the following:

2/3/14 UPDATE: From Rep, Jason Overstreet

"The first one to plead his cause seems right, until his neighbor comes and examines him." - Proverbs 18:17

The Rengo Family placement hearing was continued...again...to Friday morning at 9 a.m.

The political pressure being exerted by an outraged public is very obviously reverberating from the Governor's office on down.

The state wrapped up within 20 minutes, trying at the close of their argument to introduce new exhibits showing medical problems with one of the babies. The only problem was that the diagnosis for pneumonia, ear infections and reflux were well after the babies had been removed from their breast feeding mother.

The State fumbled, with the defense objecting to the haphazard manner in which the State introduced those documents. The State, realizing it's mistake, withdrew one of the documents and moved on. At that point the defense team proceeded to systematically disassemble the State's premise--the family argues; there are "mental health issues" in the home; and the parents weren't adequately using the rash cream.

When the defense questioned the CPS supervisor as to whether or not the parents' religious beliefs were a consideration in this case, the State objected and the commissioner was very leery of the issue, demanding that the defense proceed carefully.

I'll leave you to think about that one.

The State is on thin ice and they know it. At one point during cross-examination, being pointedly questioned by one of the defense attorneys asking incredibly damaging questions to the State's case, the court commissioner had to ask the CPS supervisor on the stand to speak up because "your voice is fading." Mine would have been fading too.

This is not a comfortable conversation, it's true. I shudder the horror of your family, or mine, under a microscope of the bureaucracy that is CPS. Please pray for the family and all involved, that all would have clarity and that justice would prevail.