Death row inmate thinks god is worried about what he eats.

[doggie]

This monster killed a mother and her two daughters and he thinks sinning by eating non kosher food is a problem? I doubt god cares for this sub human. but most likely this is just a way to get some power and control. but it is so pathetic.

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268812/conten ... d=z3XQ1znu

HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) - A federal judge in Connecticut has rejected the arguments of a home invasion killer on death row who complained that the food he is being served in prison is not kosher.

Steven Hayes, convicted of killing a mother and two daughters, sued the Department of Correction in August, alleging the preparation practices for kosher meals in the kitchen at the state's highest-security prison do not conform to Jewish dietary laws.

Hayes describes himself in the lawsuit as an Orthodox Jew and says he's been requesting a kosher diet since May 2013. He says he has suffered "almost two years of emotional injury from having to choose between following God and starving or choosing sin to survive."

[Emme]

This was a horrific case, I remember this. Also I'm pretty sure eating Kosher food isn't going to do jack when you've already murdered three people. Thou shalt not kill. It makes me see red that he claims "emotional injury". You know who suffered emotional injury? Dr. Petit after this animal raped and murdered his wife and two daughters...

[nomoxian]

"choosing sin" shouldn't be hard for him, considering he murdered three people.

[sparkles]

The injustice! The cruelty! The horror! The inhumanity! I could try forever to muster up a dust mote's worth of sympathy for this animal but i would fail completely.

Let him starve.

[lawlifelgbt]

I don't agree with the posters here. Yes, the inmate did a horrible thing. But, in prisons, it's very easy to abridge someone's constitutional rights, which include freedom of religion. Inmates, even on death row, have the right to practice and follow their religion- they still keep some rights inside a prison.

IMO, if the US wants to keep fetishizing the Constitution and saying we are a free country, then the State needs to actually start upholding people's rights, whether that's the right to practice one's religion, even in prison, or any other thing. I think that respecting the constitutional rights of prisoners (religion) or minorities like in Ferguson (free speech and assembly, protection against search and seizure, freedom from brutality by the gov't), is a good place to start.

I see this guy as like the WBC; one may want to deny his rights, but doing so weakens the guarantee of rights for all.

[doggie]

I am not saying deny his rights I am saying God is beyond giving a fuck about him sinning by what he eats. But these things are usually just a power play to have some control in jail or to get better food

[treemom]

Not to mention that isn't precisely how a Jew would describe it in my experience. I never grew up around talk of sin as much as Christians use it. Other Jews should weigh in because my unusual childhood and then being raised by grandparents who weren't fluent in English and if Sephardic tradition means I get stuff wrong a lot

[sparkles]

I don't agree with the posters here. Yes, the inmate did a horrible thing. But, in prisons, it's very easy to abridge someone's constitutional rights, which include freedom of religion. Inmates, even on death row, have the right to practice and follow their religion- they still keep some rights inside a prison.

IMO, if the US wants to keep fetishizing the Constitution and saying we are a free country, then the State needs to actually start upholding people's rights, whether that's the right to practice one's religion, even in prison, or any other thing. I think that respecting the constitutional rights of prisoners (religion) or minorities like in Ferguson (free speech and assembly, protection against search and seizure, freedom from brutality by the gov't), is a good place to start.

I see this guy as like the WBC; one may want to deny his rights, but doing so weakens the guarantee of rights for all.

I absolutely and completely agree with you on a purely academic and intellectual level. But add basic human emotion into the equation and all of that flies out the window. Some people, by virtue of the acts they commit and their lack of remorse, no longer deserve my consideration, my sympathy, my understanding or my concern for their welfare. I do appreciate and respect the professionals who have to stand up for the rights of animals like this but there are times when I just don't know how they can separate facts from feelings. Good thing I'm not a lawyer.

[ViolaSebastian]

I don't agree with the posters here. Yes, the inmate did a horrible thing. But, in prisons, it's very easy to abridge someone's constitutional rights, which include freedom of religion. Inmates, even on death row, have the right to practice and follow their religion- they still keep some rights inside a prison.

IMO, if the US wants to keep fetishizing the Constitution and saying we are a free country, then the State needs to actually start upholding people's rights, whether that's the right to practice one's religion, even in prison, or any other thing. I think that respecting the constitutional rights of prisoners (religion) or minorities like in Ferguson (free speech and assembly, protection against search and seizure, freedom from brutality by the gov't), is a good place to start.

I see this guy as like the WBC; one may want to deny his rights, but doing so weakens the guarantee of rights for all.

I agree with you completely, but it looks like he's just complaining to have something to complain about (he's previously made various complaints about his mental health care, the temperature of his cell, etc.) The prison is making an effort to ensure that the meals are kosher, it's just not enough for him:

The judge noted that Hayes is offered kosher meals, and the state Department of Correction has two rabbis who periodically monitor the preparation of kosher foods in the prison system. The judge said both rabbis certified that the food and the food preparation process comply with dietary laws.

"Although (Hayes) raises as an issue the lack of a reliable orthodox certificate or an onsite Jewish overseer, he provides no evidence suggesting that their absence leads to a finding that the meals are not kosher," the judge wrote.

There's no evidence that his meals aren't kosher. The prison has hired two rabbis to ensure that the preparation is correct, who come in periodically. He just wants someone there all the time.

[Buzzard]

Jews in their homes dont have rabbis to certify that meals are kosher. I'm not sure why he should be special, other than the fact that he has nothing to do with his time than waste taxpayer resources. He killed three people, raped one woman (if I remember the case correctly), and burned the house down. I think his ability to whine and demand things should be significantly curtailed. He has his kosher food; He shouldnt have privileges other Jews dont have.

[church_of_dog]

I don't agree with the posters here. Yes, the inmate did a horrible thing. But, in prisons, it's very easy to abridge someone's constitutional rights, which include freedom of religion. Inmates, even on death row, have the right to practice and follow their religion- they still keep some rights inside a prison.

IMO, if the US wants to keep fetishizing the Constitution and saying we are a free country, then the State needs to actually start upholding people's rights, whether that's the right to practice one's religion, even in prison, or any other thing. I think that respecting the constitutional rights of prisoners (religion) or minorities like in Ferguson (free speech and assembly, protection against search and seizure, freedom from brutality by the gov't), is a good place to start.

I see this guy as like the WBC; one may want to deny his rights, but doing so weakens the guarantee of rights for all.

I agree insofar as everyone (even criminals) have the right to their own beliefs and the right to allocate some personal time toward a religious service.

I'm not so sure when it comes to things the prison is obligated to do or provide for the prisoners.

In other words, he can't be prohibited from having whatever religious beliefs he wants, but he obviously can't continue any rituals that interfere with the rules of the prison or the rights of the employees or the other prisoners.

Why shouldn't it be the case that he can continue to believe that following those religious rituals is desirable, but he has been convicted of something that has caused him to not have access to those things. Consequences of his own actions.

I'm struggling with this, as usually I'm on the side of personal freedoms and rights, but it seems there is a line to be drawn here. Without taking away a prisoner's right to their own thoughts and beliefs, that doesn't necessarily mean they retain all the rights to express those beliefs via rituals and daily life options.

[salex]

I'd say that if the Rabbis are ok with the meal prep standards that would be all I'd require or expect of the state.

Obviously, his prison hobby is lawsuits.

[doggie]

I bet it is much better food then most get worth converting for

[2xx1xy1JD]

While I'm generally opposed to the death penalty, there are a few cases so certain and so heinous that I wouldn't protest the execution. This is one of those cases.

There are some prisoners who seem to get off being a huge pain in the butt, filing frivolous complaints at the drop of a hat. He wants to be a speshul snowflake, and looks for excuses.

Look, of all people, I'm sympathetic to religious rights, and to prisoners' rights. I know rabbis who do jailhouse chaplaincy, and I'm glad that someone makes the effort. One big clue here is that none of those rabbis have come forward to press this case. This guy isn't actually Jewish, by any denomination's definition. He's "self-converted" - which isn't actually a thing in Judaism. Chances are that he saw this as a way to get some attention and make extra demands.

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut ... story.html

Keeping kosher doesn't get you brownie points if he are a murderer. To be forgiven for sinning against someone else, you have to first seek forgiveness from that person, which is impossible in the case of murder. That makes murder the most unforgivable crime.

[anniebgood]

Jews in their homes dont have rabbis to certify that meals are kosher. I'm not sure why he should be special, other than the fact that he has nothing to do with his time than waste taxpayer resources. He killed three people, raped one woman (if I remember the case correctly), and burned the house down. I think his ability to whine and demand things should be significantly curtailed. He has his kosher food; He shouldnt have privileges other Jews dont have.

As far as I'm concerned give him a loaf of challah on Friday and let him make it last all week. He deserves nothing better. He and his partner in crime should have been in front of a firing squad and then he could complain to G-d when he got to the gates of Heaven.

Was his Orthodoxy brought up in trial as a condition of his aberrant behavior? Did he have a message from G-d to tie those little girls to their beds and ignite them? If the Rabbis certify the food as Kosher prep, that's good enough for me.

[BrownieMomma]

I don't agree with the posters here. Yes, the inmate did a horrible thing. But, in prisons, it's very easy to abridge someone's constitutional rights, which include freedom of religion. Inmates, even on death row, have the right to practice and follow their religion- they still keep some rights inside a prison.

IMO, if the US wants to keep fetishizing the Constitution and saying we are a free country, then the State needs to actually start upholding people's rights, whether that's the right to practice one's religion, even in prison, or any other thing. I think that respecting the constitutional rights of prisoners (religion) or minorities like in Ferguson (free speech and assembly, protection against search and seizure, freedom from brutality by the gov't), is a good place to start.

I see this guy as like the WBC; one may want to deny his rights, but doing so weakens the guarantee of rights for all.

There is one huge vital difference between that prisoner and the WBC - the WBC have not broken any laws. They are entitled to everything that every American person or institution is entitled to.

This prisoner? When you break the law you lose your freedom and privileges. I agree that he should be allowed to think whatever thoughts, to claim on paper whatever religion he wants, to be excused from the Christmas party with the Christmas tree if he is so offended by Christian trappings... but to require extra money be spent? Special treatment?

No. That ended the day he was convicted and sent to prison.

[JillyO]

Wow. For a website snarking on religious fundamentalism, lots of people here seem to be taking the biblical "eye for an eye" at face value.

[lawlifelgbt]

There is one huge vital difference between that prisoner and the WBC - the WBC have not broken any laws. They are entitled to everything that every American person or institution is entitled to.

This prisoner? When you break the law you lose your freedom and privileges. I agree that he should be allowed to think whatever thoughts, to claim on paper whatever religion he wants, to be excused from the Christmas party with the Christmas tree if he is so offended by Christian trappings... but to require extra money be spent? Special treatment?

No. That ended the day he was convicted and sent to prison.

Several cases have upheld the right to one's religious beliefs in prison, and for allocations for them, regardless of one's crime. That's because religion (like marriage, although I know you don't think I deserve that particular right), is a designated "fundamental right." Certain of those rights cannot be abridged, even in prison, unless their exercise creates a security issue or astronomical cost. The right to one's religion is the whole reason the colonists settled here, anyway- so I don't think the framers intended to take religion from anyone, free or not.

In dealing with fundamental rights in a prison context, the analysis is whether the burden placed on the prison by having a prisoner have certain religious requirements is an "undue burden" on the prison, in terms of either safety or cost. Spending money, is, on its own, not an undue burden- if it were, no places would be handicap-accessible.

Now that I know that he is getting kosher food which is inspected by rabbis who come in occasionally, I think that is enough, as hiring a rabbi to be there all the time would cost too much. However, the prison is expected to cover the costs of the rabbis to come in once in a while, because that is not so costly as to be an undue burden.

Also, to characterize kosher as special treatment isn't really how I see it. A prison has to make allowances for, for example, a prisoner's allergies, or perhaps even their vegetarianism, or their not eating pork (e.g. Gitmo detainees). These allowances are made already. To do these things, but then say that this person will not receive any different food when others do, is an equal protection problem.

The Constitution requires that similarly situated persons be treated similarly, w/r/t rights and accommodations. That's how we have same-sex marriage by judicial decision- gay and lesbian couples are similarly situated to straight ones because they have a relationship and are "persons" entitled to rights under the law. In this case, the inmate is similarly situated to, say, a Muslim inmate who can't eat certain things, or an inmate with an allergy who requires certain food-prep steps or standards in order to avoid cross-contamination- if the prison accommodates those examples, but not him, he's being unconstitutionally singled out.

I was only comparing him to the WBC to draw an analogy; like the WBC, many people hate this guy as well. But, that doesn't mean he doesn't have rights. Even if he went on a massive spree, or dropped the bomb on Hiroshima, he is still a human being- and in a free nation, human beings have rights, even if other people don't like that human. If you deprive someone of their (fundamental, able to be exercised in prison) rights because of a crime, you're really not much better than the prisoner, as a person.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I'm not opposing the general notion that prisoners still have some rights, including religious rights. Prisoners are still human beings. In general, more humane treatment of prisoners and keeping them connected to the world outside the prison walls would be a good thing. Keep in mind that the vast majority of prisoners in the United States are NOT heinous killers like this guy. Many are incarcerated as a result of the war of drugs, many are affected by mandatory minimums, and in many cases, there is huge racial inequality in sentencing. [Ok, I've been reading Orange in the New Black.] One asshole shouldn't diminish rights for others.

I don't think that every prisoner should lose all rights. I just think that THIS particular prisoner did stuff that was so heinous that he makes other murderers look good. I understand that upholding rights for all means that we extend rights to folks that we may hate. I just wouldn't have much mercy for this guy, nor do I think that he's entitled to anything beyond the absolute minimum required by law.

From what I understand, prisoners have the right to food that doesn't violate their religious beliefs. It's just that the food doesn't have to be particularly good. You could provide a perfectly kosher diet that consists of corn flakes, canned tuna and canned beans, for example, and it wouldn't cost any more than the regular food. Special diet shouldn't mean better than everyone else.

I also highly suspect that this guy was simply making up his problems with the kosher food, just like he "self-converted". Some foods require constant rabbinic supervision, some don't. I don't trust Mr. Fake Jew to know the difference.

I just did a quick search, and it looks like Fake Jews claiming kosher meals is actually a problem in the prison system. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/21/us/yo ... .html?_r=0

[snarkykitty]

As far as I'm concerned give him a loaf of challah on Friday and let him make it last all week. He deserves nothing better. He and his partner in crime should have been in front of a firing squad and then he could complain to G-d when he got to the gates of Heaven.

Was his Orthodoxy brought up in trial as a condition of his aberrant behavior? Did he have a message from G-d to

tie those little girls to their beds and ignite them?

If the Rabbis certify the food as Kosher prep, that's good enough for me.

This isn't a slap on the wrist, it's more of a request that people put very specific sensitive (graphic?) information behind "spoiler" tags? This is a very triggering post for me, for reasons I'd rather not give, and I didn't expect someone to spell out the actual crime. Thanks in advance. No offense to the OP of this post, more as a request in general.

Thank you for your consideration.

[anniebgood]

Wow. For a website snarking on religious fundamentalism, lots of people here seem to be taking the biblical "eye for an eye" at face value.

Look up and see what this cretin did to the family he is charged with murdering. I'm not a proponent of the death penalty by any means, but there are things that in my mind merit it. His crimes more than merit it.

[VaSportsMom]

I'm atheist so maybe I'm missing something but unless his God is fine and dandy with him raping and murdering 3 women then it seems to me that the ship has sailed on him obeying his religious tenets.

If he believes that his God will forgive him for the crimes that landed him on death row then surely he will also forgive him for his minor dietary sins.

[Burris]

I'd say that if the Rabbis are ok with the meal prep standards that would be all I'd require or expect of the state.

Obviously, his prison hobby is lawsuits.

Hayes acts like someone who not only feels as if he were cheated by life, but also that the criminal justice system - a system with which he, age 44 when he committed the triple murder, has been familiar since his first conviction at age 16 - owes him some kind of debt:

The system owes him a cell at a specific temperature, he believes; and food even more rigourously screened as kosher than what other prisoners eat. And for some reason the system, and by extension the public that funds it, owes him specialized mental health care beyond what many free US citizens could access publicly.

(It's hard to credit someone who allegedly agonizes that eating prison food causes him to offend God while at the same time reacting to his admitted guilt for killing people by complaining to the court repeatedly about trivial nonsense.)

This isn't a situation where he's being denied human rights or even access to his preferred food. This is a situation where someone, who should be using his time productivity rather than wasting what remains of an already ruinous life on filing frivolous lawsuits, is merely continuing in a life-long pattern of waste.

He gave up the privelege of being frivolous and demanding of other people. If he truly felt even a moment of remorse, he'd realize that and stop trying to impose his whims on prison staff.

He killed three people, including two minors. He chose the most casually cruel method at hand to kill the 11-year-old and her 17-year-old sister.

The reason he gave for committing his crime was, quite literally, that his life sucked; he didn't have any money and his mother would no longer let him use her car.

This is someone who, if his claims to remorse and pretensions to a religious conversion were genuine, would be looking for some way to redeem his remaining time. He could do something useful but doesn't.

[doggie]

Well his life still sucks but his food is better after his conversion. The poor sinner almost feel sores for him when hell freezes over that is

[Burris]

Well his life still sucks but his food is better after his conversion. The poor sinner almost feel sores for him when hell freezes over that is

He has spent his entire adulthood swinging through other people like a human wrecking ball. His attitude of entitlement is revolting.

And his life doesn't actually suck: He has access to a full measure of everything he needs not only to survive but to act on his alleged sense of guilt by producing something...anything...of value.