Fundie Goes to Scandinavia, Head explodes....

[straygoldfish]

From the atheism/secularism....

addictinginfo.org/2014/11/07/american-bible-thumper-travels-scandinavia-freaks-out-discovering-secular-video/

[MissA]

Okay, this man is from half an hour outside Atlanta. I mean, I get that it's not the most liberal, non-religious city on earth... but it's a very large major metropolitan area with people of many belief systems and political affiliations. I have met atheist and nonreligious Atlantans (Atlanteans?) in the course of a three-day conference in that city, and I didn't even have to seek them out.

The thing that's interesting about this video is that they encouraged someone to talk to people outside his comfort zone. Which in theory as someone with a calling to bring the good word to the unsaved, he should probably have been doing already anyway...

[nelliebelle1197]

Atlanta and huge chunks of the area around - especially counties and areas south and east -is very liberal and progressive. I can see the Atlanta city limits from my house (h/t Tina Fey); my county votes about 82% liberal and my city 90% plus. So let's not stereotype, 'k?

[16strong]

I don't care where the guy was from, I enjoyed seeing him and his fundamental beliefs squirm. I'd love it if they sent Shrader or PP there. The reactions had by all would be priceless.

[Soldevi]

If you want to watch the whole program (25 mins), go here. Intro and some parts are spoken in Swedish and Finnish but mostly it is in English. Intro introduces McClain and tells how he will view our relationship with religion which is rather...well, cold. It is told in the program that in international level we in the Nordic countries are one of the most secularized countries and while we don't like religion, we love churches. That we get baptized there, get married and have a final blessing, we just ask priests to talk a less about Jesus while we are there :lol: Then Martin is introduced saying that he believes that Bible is word of God and it must be interpreted literally and how he has never been outside the States. He is given a mission to find out how we Nordic people believe.

It is part of the Finnish series where they find people from different cultures and ask an opinion of our welfare states and society from outsider. The very first episode included an American prison manager and couldn't but laugh when he saw prison after prison and each of them being more liberal than the earlier one where they visited.

We are still far from idyllic secular state. At the moment here in Finland there are a few issues that are highly debated at the moment: gay marriages and should hospital personnel be granted a right to not to participate in abortion. Folk opinion is clear (yes and no) but we have conservative christians as politicians and they do whatever they can to diminish human rights (from our perspective). For example, in the name of party discipline, one of the member in law judiciary commettee was pulled from voting and replaced with another party member because she couldn't vote against party's opinion. *sigh* This from a party which is famous of their anti-gay and really anti-anything opinions. One MP from their party is nowadays known as Doggie Oinonen. A few years ago he opined that if we allow gay marriage then people will demand that they can get married with their beloved doggies...

[I live off the state]

I remeber, a couple of years ago, there was a group from the church started a "pray away the gay" campaign. The number of people that "divorced" the church in the day after it launched was equivalent to the number who normally leave in a year. That kinda shit don't fly in Finland. We do have some crazies of our own though; around the same time someone fire bombed the student union office because of its stance on same sex marriage. Then there is the lestadians; with many children, no dancing and no TV.

[August]

Soldevi, don't forget that the legalisation of gay marriage in the US would never have passed a government vote in 95% of the country, and not federally. It just happened to be the case that when they wrote the constitution three hundred years ago, and then amended it a hundred and more years ago to free slaves and give women the vote, they accidentally gave gay people human rights. It will only be after it's been the law over the whole country for. decade or two that politicians will be able to fully support it. Public opinion has followed along after legalisation.

[Rebelwife]

Atlanta and huge chunks of the area around - especially counties and areas south and east -is very liberal and progressive. I can see the Atlanta city limits from my house (h/t Tina Fey); my county votes about 82% liberal and my city 90% plus. So let's not stereotype, 'k?

You're right of course, but you certainly can't deny that Atlanta and it's surrounding metro are way more religious (specifically conservative Protestant) than say Portland or San Francisco? However, unless this guy has been living under a SBC rock, which I don't deny is a possibility, he definitely should have encountered many people who aren't religious just like him in his life.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Soldevi, don't forget that the legalisation of gay marriage in the US would never have passed a government vote in 95% of the country, and not federally. It just happened to be the case that when they wrote the constitution three hundred years ago, and then amended it a hundred and more years ago to free slaves and give women the vote, they accidentally gave gay people human rights. It will only be after it's been the law over the whole country for. decade or two that politicians will be able to fully support it. Public opinion has followed along after legalisation.

That's been the case in Canada too.

Our Charter of Rights is much more recent than the American Bill of Rights. It was passed in 1982 (and come into force 3 years later). That means that we don't need to wonder what the guys who drafted it would have thought - we can just go and ask them. Still, that's not how the law works. Once it was passed, it stood on its own and original intent doesn't matter. It's just for the courts to interpret. People here forget that the former Liberal government had actually fought in court against gay marriage, and it was only after the Ontario Court of Appeal upheld the ruling in favor of recognizing same-sex marriage that they considered drafting a law to recognized it across Canada. In other words - they weren't leading on this issue. The court forced the issue, and the government was playing catch-up. Politically, it was easier to say, "well, the court ruled it was unconstitutional to oppose same-sex marriage, so we need to deal with it" than it was to actually take the initiative to change the law. Once it was a done deal, the new Conservative government said that they wouldn't oppose it or try to change the new law.

Public opinion shifted. When I was in law school in the early 1990s, same-sex marriage was seen as a wacky, radical idea from lesbian professors. Today, my kids just see it as marriage, period.

[browncoatslytherin]

You're right of course, but you certainly can't deny that Atlanta and it's surrounding metro are way more religious (specifically conservative Protestant) than say Portland or San Francisco? However, unless this guy has been living under a SBC rock, which I don't deny is a possibility, he definitely should have encountered many people who aren't religious just like him in his life.

i used to live in mcdonough - just south of atlanta - and unless it's made a 180 from the time i lived and visited there, it was pretty conservative and religious. that's probably why my parents settled there for a while. :P

but even so, like mentioned, there is plenty of diversity in other areas of the metro, so unless he was shuffled off into a small town similar to where i grew up, it seems odd that he wouldn't have been exposed to different ideas earlier.

another thought...perhaps he wants to make this seem like a huge deal to his family and friends and church congregation back home? like, make it part of his "testimony"?

[artdecades]

Oh man, I wonder if the other episodes are like this. This show sounds amazing.

[artdecades]

Yes, the full episode is on youtube with subtitles

[artdecades]

Ok, I watched the full episode

First of all, he is not a fundie. He may be fundie lite, but one of the first thing he recommends to bring religion to Scandinavia is contemporary christian music. He does seem to have issues with dancing though, if its not "god honoring movement".

The first place they take him to is a Catholic Church which holds a heavy metal mass. Oh those scandinavians and their heavy metal. He sits there politely enough with a scowl on his face. Not gonna lie, I would probably do the same thing at a heavy metal concert, church or no. His big issue was that the women performers were too sexy and distracting, though he tried to frame this by saying that it wasn't about the performers so attention shouldn't be on them. :roll: His true meaning was clear though.

They then take him to the "Bible Belt" of Sweden. They put him in a hotel room number 666. I chuckled. He laughed it off too which I doubt a Duggar would do. The Bible Belt, the most religious city in Sweden, has about 13 percent of the population as active church goers. LOL. This is where in the article he meets the man who says, “In short, I have no need of a god. To put it bluntly.†He argues, but is very polite. He doesn't try to witness or anything.

I swear, they found a very mild mannered fundie (if he is one). He seems amused by most of it, tbh. Not bothered. Though it could be editing.

OMG HE WALKED INTO A STORE AND SAYS BUENOS DIAS IN SWEDEN. OMG DID HE TAKE LANGUAGE LESSONS FROM JIM BOB

[artdecades]

Part 2

He travels to Copenhagen. I am digging the frilled collars the Danish clergy wear. They tell him that love is not about procreation and gender doesn't matter. He does a TH about how the gays are all sinners, but says nothing to the reverend. Its interesting to see because I feel so used to seeing people like this get all argumentative. Again, it could be editing, but he kidna just goes with the flow and then talks shit later in his TH.

He tells the reverends that he was 14 when god put the "burden on his heart" (maybe he is more fundie than I thought) and he was born again. He asks the Danish reverend if they have ever been born again and they seem confused by the concept. When he explains it to them, the male reverend LAUGHS IN HIS FACE. I wish that was in the preview. Seriously, if you watch no other part of the video, watch that. Its at 16:40.

Back in Sweden, this time to Stockholm. The interviewer starts asking him about guns (of course he owns guns) and if he would shoot an intruder or turn the other cheek. He starts getting agitated about being called out on his hypocrisy.

He does some idiotic rambling about how societies and governments need a basis and when anything goes with all these religions (with regards to the Kopitimists who believe file sharing is sacred and are an officially recognized religion in sweden) that there isn't going to be structure and that one needs to win out for governance to work or some stupid shit. I couldn't figure it out. All I managed to understand is that he doesn't realize that Scandinavian civilizations have existed far longer.

Basically in short, he didn't take it too seriously so he wasn't as big of a jackass as he could have been and was very polite to people he met. However, he totally was not shaken in his beliefs and thinks that everyone there is wrong and dumb and he is right.

[Soldevi]

The first place they take him to is a Catholic Church which holds a heavy metal mass.

Not a Catholic Church, that part was filmed in the Pitäjänmäki Church, Helsinki and belongs to the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland. Catholics are a minority in Finland with some 12 000 members. Lutheran priests wear a black shirt with white collar. Women got a new line a few years ago, here are some clothes from the collection:

Yeah. Female priests! I wish they had included a meeting with our transgender vicar (MtF)...

[salex]

OMG HE WALKED INTO A STORE AND SAYS BUENOS DIAS IN SWEDEN. OMG DID HE TAKE LANGUAGE LESSONS FROM JIM BOB

I have sympathy. When I was in Mexico a few years back, we were in many non American tourist areas, with my father in law's wife, who is from Mexico. We were in tourist areas that mostly people from Mexico or South America go, with a couple of days in a place some Europeans go as well. When people spoke to me in Spanish, my brain panicked and said "THAT IS NOT ENGLISH!!!!OMG< OMG< OMG!" Then, my brain said "Wait! I know! Let's try that other language we "almost/sort of" know". So I found myself answering in French. Given my French worked ok in Montreal and not at all in Paris, it was of limited value in Mexico--- but my brain thought we ought to at least give it a try! So I was thinking "thank you-- oh, that would be Gracias" and out would come "Merci"! :?

[artdecades]

^French and Spanish come from the same language families and have many similar and same words. There is no excuse for walking into a place in Sweden, Nepal, or Tokyo and saying "buenos dias" like JB and this guy do.

[Luisainlondon1]

^French and Spanish come from the same language families and have many similar and same words. There is no excuse for walking into a place in Sweden, Nepal, or Tokyo and saying "buenos dias" like JB and this guy do.

I totally agree. I worked in the hotel industry for quite a long time and sometimes people's ignorance is unbelievable. And walking into a place in Sweden and saying "buenos dias" is definitely ignorance at its best. I think words like "hello" and "thank you" can be learned by anybody who travels abroad.

[crazyforkate]

Especially in the Scandinavian languages - I mean, "tak" and "hej" are pretty darned simple. And just about anyone travelling in Finland can throw out a "kiitos" for day-to-day business. It's a simple enough courtesy.

And to the poster who discussed Finnish politics at the moment, thanks for the description! I was in Helsinki for pride this year and was totally confused as to why they hadn't gotten around to legalizing same-sex marriage yet.

[Eddiesmom]

OMG! My niece was baptised month ago in that church where the heavy metal mass was held. I am also former Laestadian.

[kiranat]

To add to this somewhat:

The Finnish parliament (finally!) made same-sex marriage official:

Finnish: http://yle.fi/uutiset/105_kannatti_ja_9 ... ta/7657637

English: http://yle.fi/uutiset/finnish_lutheran_ ... te/7658255

And the head of the "national" church is very happy about it!:

http://yle.fi/uutiset/finnish_lutheran_ ... te/7658255

(link also in English)

Links go to news site, so no need to break them.

[nastyhobbitses]

I have sympathy. When I was in Mexico a few years back, we were in many non American tourist areas, with my father in law's wife, who is from Mexico. We were in tourist areas that mostly people from Mexico or South America go, with a couple of days in a place some Europeans go as well. When people spoke to me in Spanish, my brain panicked and said "THAT IS NOT ENGLISH!!!!OMG< OMG< OMG!" Then, my brain said "Wait! I know! Let's try that other language we "almost/sort of" know". So I found myself answering in French. Given my French worked ok in Montreal and not at all in Paris, it was of limited value in Mexico--- but my brain thought we ought to at least give it a try! So I was thinking "thank you-- oh, that would be Gracias" and out would come "Merci"! :?

See, at least French and Spanish are related languages. I once ended up speaking Mandarin when I meant to be speaking Spanish to someone (first word was Hola, everything after that was Mandarin) and when I did realize my mistake (it was so unconscious that I didn't realize until the person I was talking to had this look on her face like I was insane) and start again in Spanish, I noticed I was using Mandarin grammar with Spanish vocabulary. I guess this happened because after being in China for a while, my brain thinks "oh, someone who doesn't speak English, switch to Mandarin" even if that's not the language they speak.

[lawlifelgbt]

Just no excuse for saying "buenos dias" in Scandinavia though, especially if he's not multilingual!

Although, one day when I was 16, I had just flown to Germany for my student exchange. I was taking Spanish in high school along with German. I had bad east-going jet lag and was woken up early by my host mom...I proceeded downstairs for breakfast...said, "buenos dias!"

[alba]

I swear, they found a very mild mannered fundie (if he is one). He seems amused by most of it, tbh. Not bothered. Though it could be editing.

I think this is because of the point of the programme; it's about examining Nordic culture from an outsider's perspective, rather than examining an outsider's culture from a Nordic perspective. As such, they chose someone with very different beliefs but who was mild enough (or could be edited as such) that those beliefs wouldn't overshadow Nordic culture.

[MichellezBangz]

I have sympathy. When I was in Mexico a few years back, we were in many non American tourist areas, with my father in law's wife, who is from Mexico. We were in tourist areas that mostly people from Mexico or South America go, with a couple of days in a place some Europeans go as well. When people spoke to me in Spanish, my brain panicked and said "THAT IS NOT ENGLISH!!!!OMG< OMG< OMG!" Then, my brain said "Wait! I know! Let's try that other language we "almost/sort of" know". So I found myself answering in French. Given my French worked ok in Montreal and not at all in Paris, it was of limited value in Mexico--- but my brain thought we ought to at least give it a try! So I was thinking "thank you-- oh, that would be Gracias" and out would come "Merci"! :?

I have a similar problem except I mix French and Spanish together in the same sentences when I try to speak Spanish.