Oh, come on Lydia! This is stupid even by your "standards."

[Burris]

Lydia, at Home Living Helper (also discussed here), has recently published a new article called, “The Flip Side of Feminism.†It starts out with the usual pastiche of half-truths and straw-men, but wading through all that will actually be worth it this time!

Lydia makes a comment near the end that is so brain-dead even she ought to be covered with shame for it.

She begins with the usual nonsense:

Feminist occasionally try to make a point about the use of modern inventions by homemakers: driving a car, using a computer, publishing books, having a home or cottage industry, earning money with personal talent such as art, crafts, etc., and so forth. Their claim is that without feminism, women would not be allowed to read, write, drive, or conduct business.

I have always answered that the feminist movement was never needed. Their claim of being responsible for all these privileges is false.

Lydia is blithely conflating the use of labor-saving devices, such as the home PC, with access to such privileges as driving. She then argues against a straw-man of her own creation wherein “feminists†claim none of this – including the operation of a cottage industry – would be possible without feminism.

Hers is a muddled argument, surely, and more trouble than it's worth to prarse. Suffice it to say, in areas where women’s rights – y’know, those things feminism exists to fight for - aren’t taken seriously, women are variously barred from driving, such as in Saudi Arabia; schooling, in a whole lot of places; and even cottage industry in areas run by groups such as the Taliban.

Discontent at home, feminists insist that women need not use their talents for the family, but should make their mark outside of the home.

Feminists claim women should have a choice: If you want to be a stay-at-home mother, then do it; if you want to be an old woman who never works but instead spends her days making glitter art, then do it; and if you want to work in a paid profession, then do it.

In her book, "The Flip Side of Feminism" Phyllis Schlafly addresses this same comment, stating that feminism never helped her succeed in anything.

Well, she’s mistaken.

From Schlafly’s Wikipedia Bio:

Schlafly began college early and worked as a model for a time. She earned her A.B. Phi Beta Kappa from Washington University, in St. Louis in 1944. She received a Master of Arts degree in Government from Radcliffe College in Cambridge, Massachusetts in 1945. In one of her books, Strike From Space (1965), Schlafly notes that during WWII she worked briefly as "a ballistics gunner and technician at the largest ammunition plant in the world." In 1978, she earned a J.D. from Washington University Law School in St. Louis.

Schlafly’s capacity to take a JD and be admitted to the bar was a direct result of what feminists did some 70 years earlier.

One thing I have not seen addressed much is the constant mockery that prevails toward the homemaker, and especially the Biblical homemaker who desires to home school, make her own bread, grow a garden, sew clothes, and create a home life for their loved ones.

Okay then, so I’ll address it - even as so many others have addressed this same claim before me: Feminism is the recognition that women are human and have the same rights as all other humans – including the right to choose to stay home, if they so desire, and pursue their own hobbies and interests; to home-school their kids; and to believe as they wish.

I might think another person's choices are misguided, but I'd still defend her right to make them.

One chapter in "The Flip Side of Feminism, titled "The Pedestal," states that women need to get off men's pedestal, and get back on their own.

That, from a female lawyer who has been openly active in politics for 50 years. Hypocrite.

In His wisdom and perfection, God created the most natural way of life for women. If this is the right way, why then, do women worry that it is not enough, that it will not work, that it will give them no rights, or that it will not be possible?

Because it’s not as natural as Lydia claims, and because women have plenty of examples to look at of what happens when their rights are ignored.

And now for the promised denouement – a statement so breathtakingly stupid that I hope it follows Lydia around for years:

Proverbs 31 seems complicated and exhausting, but in the New Testament, the last will and testament of Christ, which is our spiritual authority today, the role of a woman is much simplified, and it is for her own peace. It gives about three main things for the woman in the church of Christ, to do: marriage, raising children and keeping house.

(Bolding mine)

In other words, Proverbs 31 isn’t for women today. The inerrant, infallible, unchanging Word of God has nonetheless seen a massive revamp since the Old Testament, and the upgrade says women needn’t worry their pretty little heads about work. Deborah? Ruth? Pfft – just older models, swept away by the sea-tide of change.

[desertvixen]

It's not their CHOICE that we find threatening or damaging - it's the whole part where they want to impose it on everyone.

I am a mother - and I love my child dearly. But I do not think I could stay home all day and be happy.

As for asking why women worry about it not working, does she have eternity to listen? We worry about it because for many of us it didn't work, and we had to cope with reality.

You want to stay home, that's cool - but don't make me out to an uppity godless emasculating whore just because I think your pedestal sounds like a prison.

[luckiegirl]

I don't understand the false claim they all make that women who stay home are mocked. Where?!?! The knee jerk defensiveness, it burns. Don't they ever get tired of making up things to feel persecuted about?

[Soldier of the One]

So now even the Proverbs 31 woman is no longer held up as The Ultimate Example in the Patriocentric movement?

Is that because... the Proverbs 31 woman was actually a pro-active, educated, savvy and wise woman who probably worked along side her husband and earned his respect? That model sounds surprisingly egalitarian, doesn't it?

[Inanna]

I don't understand the false claim they all make that women who stay home are mocked. Where?!?! The knee jerk defensiveness, it burns. Don't they ever get tired of making up things to feel persecuted about?

Honestly, in my experience as someone who's done both the SAHM thing and the working mom thing, you just can't win on either side of the fence. When I stayed at home, I got a lot of "why are you wasting your talents?!" and "wow, must be nice to sit around and watch TV all day." When I started working it was "I can't believe you're spending so many hours away from home" and "must be nice to go have your own life at the expense of your children!"

Now I'm at home during the day and at class at night so it's a nice even mix of "you should give up on a degree and get a job like the rest of us!" and "how can you leave your children to eat dinner without you four nights a week?!" (They're with their dad, btw, not like they're foraging on their own in alleyways while I'm off discussing the finer points of Picasso.) I guess I found the middle road of doing it wrong? :P

[Buzzard]

She should take a look at the women who are beaten for driving cars in the middle east and see if she likes that better than the "feminist" culture she despises

[desertvixen]

The Proverbs 31 woman probably was pretty cool - and she might have been too busy doing all the stuff she was doing to be lecturing the rest of the world on being more like her!

Women have always worked - whether it was to contribute to their household economy, or working for an actual tangible paycheck.

@luckiegirl - The "mommy wars" are fueled by the media, and IMO, by those who have an interest in women not seeing their individual problems (daycare cost/quality/availability, family friendly workplaces, fair pay/benefits, universal maternity benefits) as OUR problem. Not to mention that a lot of this stuff would also positively impact men in workplaces as well... we can't have that, we might actually make some progress here... Wait, how did I get on this soapbox? :angry-soapbox:

[fundiefan]

I don't understand the false claim they all make that women who stay home are mocked. Where?!?! The knee jerk defensiveness, it burns. Don't they ever get tired of making up things to feel persecuted about?

This.

Lydia does get mocked but it isn't because she stays home. It's because she is delusional.

[Soldier of the One]

She should take a look at the women who are beaten for driving cars in the middle east and see if she likes that better than the "feminist" culture she despises

The irony of the Patriarchy movement is that it too hinges on feminist gains and feminist concepts. The whole language of 'empowerment' that was a gift of 20th century progressive identity politics is being recycled by the fundie culture because they know it sells, i.e.: 'I am choosing to be a SAHM', or 'I feel fulfilled in my Biblical role'. All these gifts are gifts of an individualistic and democractic society where individual agency - including that of women - is guaranteed. Without the modern feminist movement, the fundies wouldn't even possess the language to frame the discourse!

And that brings us to actual feminist gains: how may of these women would be comfortable with seeing a male OB/GYN for modesty reasons? Fundies ride on the very social advances they critique. You know, the ones made by feminists and progressives and scientists and atheists and religious liberals.

Slightly off-topic but I think it is analogous to the notion that a hypothetical fundie might condemn evolution and modern-day science. But if, God forbid, our hypothetical fundie needs medical help - through techniques developed with insights gleaned from, for example, evolutionary biology - they gladly take it.

Of course, I don't expect them not to. We all can be 'hypocrites' for the right reasons sometimes. But then... why the judgment? Appreciate what modernity has given you. Modernity isn't perfect, but it is what we have.

[Guest Anonymous]

So now even the Proverbs 31 woman is no longer held up as The Ultimate Example in the Patriocentric movement?

Is that because... the Proverbs 31 woman was actually a pro-active, educated, savvy and wise woman who probably worked along side her husband and earned his respect? That model sounds surprisingly egalitarian, doesn't it?

The Proverbs 31 woman would, if in a face-off with Lydia, kick her ass.,

[Kitten]

Let's take a look at Proverbs 31 (KJV, of course):

6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

So poor people should be given all the booze they want, so they can forget they are poor. OKay, I can understand that - then they don't bother you whining about things like food and housing...

16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it:

Whoa! Women buying things without their husbands' permission? Risky!

13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.

18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good:...

24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.

She's MAKING and SELLING things? Isn't that WORK?

31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

Sounds an awful lot like LET'S GIVE HER CREDIT FOR BEING SMART AND INDUSTRIOUS AND EARNING A LIVING, not for popping out a hundred babies and sitting at home sprinkling glitter on pillows.

[ElphabaGalinda]

Definately a big fail in reading comprehension, because if they wanted to take a more "biblical" position, fundie women would be working. If they wanted things to be like the "good old days" one hundred or more years ago, they would also be working. Doesn't she realize that without feminism, her whole having opinons and posting them on the internet would be strongly discouraged?

The simple explanation can be found in the eight i'd really rather you didn'ts, which the flying spaghetti monster has given to us with his noodly appendage.

"Oh, And Get This Through You Thick Heads: Woman=Person, Man=Person. Samey=Samey. One is Not Better Than The Other, Unless We’re Talking About Fashion And I’m Sorry, But I Gave That To Women And Some Guys Who Know The Difference Between Teal And Fuchsia."

That's not too hard to understand.

[lilah]

The funny thing is that many fundie women and SAHDs aspire to the model of being a Proverbs 31 wife but of course that level of gumption, financial acumen and moxie would cause Lady Lydia to get the vapors.

And on the subject of Saudi Arabia, I heard a story about how a bunch of Saudi women are going to drive cars tomorrow in protest of their country's law. This is pretty big since Saudi Arabia does not have a tradition or culture of protest and I think the last time women attempted to fight the law in such an organized fashion was in 1991.

[GolightlyGrrl]

It's funny how Phyllis Schlafly gets trotted out as the perfect example of virtuous motherhood and an arbiter of family values. Ms. Schlafly is one of the most hyper-careerists you could find. This is not a woman who devoted all her time to her family, only dipping her toe into the public realm from time to time. Nope, she has been chasing the brass ring of success since before she was married. She ran Congress, wrote books, traveled the country giving speeches, etc., all while she had young children. A lot of what made this easier for her was marrying a much older wealthier man and having help at home.

And is it just me or is Ms. Schlafly one of the least nurturing women out there? For someone who talks about how great motherhood is she doesn't come across as very maternal.

[contrary]

the last well and testament of jesus christ? REALLY? wow.

[desertvixen]

@GolightlyGrrl: Yes, exactly! Her entire career (hell, life, it seems) is based on "Do as I lecture, not as I do" and being one of the "special, not-like-those-other-silly-girls" women.

Plus, if we had to judge her by the results of her mothering, I have four words for you: Andy Schlafly created Conservapedia.

[Burris]

@GolightlyGrrl: Yes, exactly! Her entire career (hell, life, it seems) is based on "Do as I lecture, not as I do" and being one of the "special, not-like-those-other-silly-girls" women.

Plus, if we had to judge her by the results of her mothering, I have four words for you: Andy Schlafly created Conservapedia.

Indeed. Conservapedia is - and I'm not even joking, here - one of the dumbest collections of idiocy anywhere on the internet.

It's simply unforgivable that anyone with enough of a brain to graduate law school could at once be this stupid. It can only be a lifestyle choice with Andy, and I do not approve of it one little bit.

[GolightlyGrrl]

@GolightlyGrrl: Yes, exactly! Her entire career (hell, life, it seems) is based on "Do as I lecture, not as I do" and being one of the "special, not-like-those-other-silly-girls" women.

Plus, if we had to judge her by the results of her mothering, I have four words for you: Andy Schlafly created Conservapedia.

Maybe it's just me, but I've noticed that a great deal of famous anti-feminists (Ms. Schlafly, Dr. Laura) have studied what could be considered stereotypical "male" fields-law, science. They also exhibit very left-brained thinking-analytical, logical-which once again, are considered mainly "male" traits.

However, if you are a woman like me, who scores high on what might considered "female" traits-nurturance, intuition-the Phyllis Schlaflys of the world consider you just a standard issue feeble-minded female (this is also something I see in some anti-feminist bloggers like Alte from Traditional Catholicism).

I'm also very right-brained and creative, which are considered "lesser" traits. My skills as a writer, crafter, etc., have often been looked down upon by some more left-brained women. "Oh, you write about film. How cute."

However, you need both left and right-brained people in the workplace. I used to work as a copywriter at a local technological museum. It was up to me to break highly technical wording into easily-digestible copy. This is an art unto itself, believe me.

I also used to work at a high-end retail store. One of my favorite customers was a high-powered attorney (and not just because she spent the big bucks). She was self-aware enough to know she was fashion-impaired and she relied on me to make her more stylish.