Of course CM doesn't believe in marital rape

[Grimalkin]

:o

I imagine it goes something like this:

:?

[Toothfairy]

I'm calling it now. EVERY man who doesn't believe some sort of rape is possible is a rapist himself.

I agree. A rapist typically doesn't see what they're doing as rape

[Firiel]

This is a great little string of comments.

Shelley

October 9, 2014 at 11:38 am

Great job on this post.

I have to say, I’ve never understood why Biblically divorce is permissible for adultery but not physical abuse. That’s always bothered me. I can’t recall anything in the Bible that expounds on that so do you have any thoughts on why punching someone in the face on a regular basis is more acceptable to God then cheating on them?

amanhiswife

October 9, 2014 at 11:51 am

Shelley,

I think I made it pretty clear that punching someone is the face and cheating on them are both not acceptable in any way. I believe that divorce is the last option, so far down the list that it barely made the list…kind of like how God does not divorce us from His love and gives us every possible chance to reconcile. Lastly, this should further reinforce the importance, sacredness, and value that God places on the marital act which makes it different that everything else…which is exactly why we as humans are so sinful in this exact area and why you see Satan use this to tear apart, tempt and destroy.

Thanks Shelley. God bless.

Shelley

October 9, 2014 at 12:19 pm

You did make it very clear! I wasn’t trying to imply you found it acceptable. I can see you find both actions to be completely NOT ok. I was just wondering if you had any insight as to why God doesn’t ask us to view one as severe as the other. This is me trying to make sense of something I don’t understand the reason for in the Bible. I don’t think I’m explaining myself very well again…

hiswife

October 9, 2014 at 12:36 pm

In Matthew 19:8, Jesus said “because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.†He doesn’t say commanded or required. But rather permitted. He goes on to say that it hasn’t been that way from the beginning. I do not believe it is God’s heart desire to divorce over infidelity, but that would be the one grounds that it would be permitted, although not held as the highest standard. If we refer to Deuteronomy 24:1-4 (the passage the Pharisees had quoted Moses from), God says of the defiled that it is an abomination before the Lord. But I think that just as God wants us to repent of our sin and turn to Him, ideally, those who have been unfaithful would repent and their marriage would be restored.

But bottom line, we must all remember that we are wretched, sinful beings, and none of us should be in the presence of God because of our sin. No sin is “acceptable†to God, it must all be punished. It is only by God’s grace, and the debt Jesus paid for our sin on the cross that we can approach God in faith. We, on our own, will never earn our salvation, because we are all sinful. Sin is sin. We should all be constantly searching our hearts and seeking the Lord that we would walk in Him and not in sin.

amanhiswife

October 9, 2014 at 12:46 pm

Shelley, I think you are explaining yourself just fine! It’s a good question. I think I have to go back to the fact that the marital act is the one thing that sets marriage apart from all other relationships (or it should). Sex transcends the physical, where abuse although horrible in the worst of way from someone who is to love, respect and protect is mostly physical in nature. Sorry Shelley, that is the best I’ve got! Maybe someone with more wisdom than I can help out.

After trying to silence Shelley by acting like she accused him of something and then not answering the question, L Ron finally makes a stab as to why divorce is allowed for adultery and not abuse. Because sex isn't just physical and abuse is just physical. Physical abuse is nearly always accompanied by emotional/financial/spiritual abuse, jackweed.

[Cartmann99]

So this would mean that if their wives met men on the sly and offered themselves for anything, except for P in V sex, it would be just fine. They should have no problem with it as it is not adultery. Right. I can just see both of them being fine with it.

This kind of thinking ties in with some of the "true love waits" crowd who are fine with anal or oral sex, but are still calling themselves virgins. :cray-cray:

Edited for clarity

[Coco]

After seeing pictures and videos of CM, Mrs. CM, and Lorken, it's even more disturbing to hear them spout these horrible beliefs.

[Grimalkin]

Ok so I have been obsessively reading the whole Sayerville Football debacle so excuse this and possible trigger warning.

TRIGGER WARNING

First of all would be consider what happened to those boys (held down and digitally penetrateed) rape since its nor p&v?

And would it be marital rape if Amanda tied him up and digitally raped him?

What would that be considerd in his warped mind?

[Tiger Lily]

After seeing pictures and videos of CM, Mrs. CM, and Lorken, it's even more disturbing to hear them spout these horrible beliefs.

Agreed. I'd only seen a blurry picture of him before and now that I've seen the real deal ... I won't be kind here after what he has said about himself:

1. Before their marriage, Robert was in the top 20% of attractiveness;

2. The story of the stranded female motorist who came on to him plus others over the years; and

3. If he and Amanda divorced, he could have another woman just like THAT!

I'm calling BS on all of this!!! He needs to consider himself very fortunate that she married him. Yes, that's unkind, however, I'm not in a kind mood at the moment. Also, I've long suspected that CM is very insecure underneath it all and what better way to boost his self-esteem than to put down the wife's? I hope I'm wrong yet I suspect I'm not. Not totally, anyway.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Soooooo is it only husband against wife forced sex that is not rape in their eyes? Or would he think it was okay if his wife jammed a large dildo up his ass?

[Grimalkin]

Soooooo is it only husband against wife forced sex that is not rape in their eyes? Or would he think it was okay if his wife jammed a large dildo up his ass?

I ponderd something similar up thread, you put it better than me. I guess that would just be sodomy, which is a completely different thing, and not sex at all since neither penises nor vaginas were involved in this scenario.

Does this mean being a lesbian and lesbian sex is ok since its not sex?

And men giving each other blowjobs is not sodomy or sex........no sin?!?! Who would of thunk Lorken and l Ron were so open minded?!?

[brillig]

Dear Cabinet Man,

It is very clear that you don't see your wife as God's own creation, worthy of respect, love, and admiration for God's creation, let me tell you how it made me feel to hear my father quote scripture about how he owned my mother while he RAPED her. Really, I can't. If you are unable to love and respect your wife and don't care how you make her suffer, I hope one day you will care about the suffering and torment you cause your still growing kids. They are learning everything they need to know to survive, and everything imprints on kids/ teens minds. The wounds you cause your kids will never fully heal. If you don't love your wife to respect her as a person, God's creation and not violate her mind, body and spirit, you don't deserve her. In your destruction of her (and byproduct, your kids) you can not cite God or Jesus.

[DGayle]

I agree. A rapist typically doesn't see what they're doing as rape

Worse with not seeing something as rape is trying to justify it are being basically ordered by the bible. Horny and the wife says no? Bible says to take her anyway.

[DGayle]

Ok so I have been obsessively reading the whole Sayerville Football debacle so excuse this and possible trigger warning.

TRIGGER WARNING

First of all would be consider what happened to those boys (held down and digitally penetrateed) rape since its nor p&v?

And would it be marital rape if Amanda tied him up and digitally raped him?

What would that be considerd in his warped mind?

Sadly, if a penis isn't forced into the vagina of a woman who is actively physically fighting it, it's generally considered to be sexual assault instead of rape. Anyone with a couple brain cells would know there are reasons victims don't always fight (drugged, too scared, paralyzed...and yes, there was a case a few years back where a quadriplegic was raped, and it wasn't considered rape since she...didn't fight!!), and that being anally penetrated or orally penetrated is every bit as violating.

[salex]

The problem "literalist" bible believers have when someone says "but isn't punching someone in the face everyday as unfaithful and damaging as someone screwing the woman down the street" is that they can't acknowledge that unfaithfulness is the true issue. not the sex, and they can't say "this is an obvious situational issue that Jesus would have included if he had lived in a culture where women were considered people." OR even "Well, a lot of verses in the canon are likely added in by various translators to encourage what they wanted politically."

Nope, they are stuck with "Listen, I know it makes no sense, but it is just proof God doesn't care about people being hit in the face... but I think it's wrong, sort of."

I am surprised they haven't added that a woman then and now was not the one talked about as divorcing if her husband committed adultery. One fundie inlaw told his mother that she had no legitimate biblical reason to divorce and remarry even though there was proof her husband had been having a string of affairs and had a separate household in another town.

Why? Because the famous "get out of marriage for free" line from Jesus says "Whoever puts away/divorces his wife except for" -- it doesn't say women have the option! So, inlaw was sure it means women didn't get to divorce if their husband screwed around.

[jerkit]

This is an FUjerkit if I've ever seen one:

We do believe there are people who call themselves christians whom our Heavenly Father will say, “Away from me, I never knew you.†While only God knows who these folks are, and we should be very humble in declaring otherwise

He's "humbly" decided I don't have religious beliefs that I actually do have.

[Curious]

Just driving by to remind people of this little gem (bold mine):

Of course increasing frequency would potentially hurt the situation IF we are talking about intercourse, but not if we are talking about other ways she can help satisfy her husband's needs. That is part of compromise, and it could have been reached much sooner if the wives would followed their own belief in a submissive role in their marriage, but they were functioning under a number of lies taught to them by worldly thinking, especially the lie that even when married they got to choose the frequency of sex... all on their own... because it was their body and their feelings.

[polecat]

This is an FUjerkit if I've ever seen one:

He's "humbly" decided I don't have religious beliefs that I actually do have.

I wonder if he's ever "very humbly" considered that he and others like him just may be the ones to be told that He never knew them? Whited sepulchres, full of dead men's bones ...

[Grimalkin]

Jerkit- screw the lot of them. Jesus broke all the rules, and rubbed it in Pharisees faces. He walked around showing love and compassion, he hung out with sinners and "sluts". When people went on about all the rules he broke he didn't give a shit, the laws were there to protect people not to oppress them which they ended up doing, by being twisted to suit their needs.. You have more kindness in your pinky toe than those Pharisees do collectively.

So I am calling out Lorken and Cabadouch, and even his wife cuz I'm pissed. You are Pharisees. You care more about your twisted rules than God's creation. Are you even capeable of looking out your window and being awed by creation? Have you ever walked up to someone that looks out of place and distressed and asked them if they are Ok? At church do you make a conciouse decision to talk to new people and welcome them, or do you stand around with your friends and ignore them? Do you ever think at all about how you can help the people around you? Say nice and encouraging words? Nah, you just pontificate your greatness.

Your faith is all about rules, and nothing about God's love.

[salex]

I wonder if he's ever "very humbly" considered that he and others like him just may be the ones to be told that He never knew them? Whited sepulchres, full of dead men's bones ...

All I know is that is what I thnk when I read their writing--Lorken, Cabinetman, the Shot Gun Minister of the divine order of Drunken Assholes for God in Joplin MO-- that they are all about as Christian as an Ayatollah.

[jerkit]

I don't know why I feel so defensive toward CM on this issue. I mean, I am 100% comfortable in my beliefs, and I've had people challenge me on those beliefs. But no one has ever tried to tell me that I don't actually have them.

[church_of_dog]

I don't know why I feel so defensive toward CM on this issue. I mean, I am 100% comfortable in my beliefs, and I've had people challenge me on those beliefs. But no one has ever tried to tell me that I don't actually have them.

See, it's like this. You only THINK you believe something. But you really don't. Because that's not at all what "believe" means. No, no need to reach for that dictionary. Seriously, don't look it u-- HEY LOOK OVER THERE A SQUIRREL!

And not only that but your name isn't really jerkit either -- you just fake-believe that it is.

Amazing, isn't it? So much of your life isn't what you thought it was! Like, at least 74% of it! (Oh wait, sorry to harken to Ken, this is about CM)

[Curious]

I don't know why I feel so defensive toward CM on this issue. I mean, I am 100% comfortable in my beliefs, and I've had people challenge me on those beliefs. But no one has ever tried to tell me that I don't actually have them.

I don't think he's saying you don't believe you are a Christian. He's saying you aren't a christian. There is a difference.

I'm pretty sure he tells everyone that isn't HIS type of christian they aren't really christian, so I wouldn't take it too personally.

(I used big C and small c purposely btw)

[jerkit]

I don't think he's saying you don't believe you are a Christian. He's saying you aren't a christian. There is a difference.

I'm pretty sure he tells everyone that isn't HIS type of christian they aren't really christian, so I wouldn't take it too personally.

(I used big C and small c purposely btw)

Oh, I get that. Someone whose IP isn't mine should ask him about open handed and closed handed issues. Because some of his doctrine (other than, you know, the horrible woman-hating doctrine) I actually agree with.

[JillsFlowerHeadband]

I wonder if he's ever "very humbly" considered that he and others like him just may be the ones to be told that He never knew them? Whited sepulchres, full of dead men's bones ...

That's the thing that I could never understand about all these hateful and stridently judgmental fundies... Jesus gave his harshest rebukes to the scribes and Pharisees. Y'know, the ones who considered themselves the arbiters of all things holy, gatekeepers of heaven and so on.

Jesus preached a message of love, mercy and forgiveness to the tax collector, the leper, the prostitute, the Samaritan... all the "dregs of society". CM and all those who spew their hatred of "sinners" might do well to remember that

[EmiGirl]

This is an FUjerkit if I've ever seen one:

He's "humbly" decided I don't have religious beliefs that I actually do have.

What's going to amuse me is when it's him that Christ is saying that to.

[moodygirl86]

Dear Cabinet Man,

It is very clear that you don't see your wife as God's own creation, worthy of respect, love, and admiration for God's creation, let me tell you how it made me feel to hear my father quote scripture about how he owned my mother while he RAPED her. Really, I can't. If you are unable to love and respect your wife and don't care how you make her suffer, I hope one day you will care about the suffering and torment you cause your still growing kids. They are learning everything they need to know to survive, and everything imprints on kids/ teens minds. The wounds you cause your kids will never fully heal. If you don't love your wife to respect her as a person, God's creation and not violate her mind, body and spirit, you don't deserve her. In your destruction of her (and byproduct, your kids) you can not cite God or Jesus.

Brillig, you're a far nicer person than I am. My version:

Dear CM,

I'm inviting you to go and fuck yourself. Which you probably do anyway, since nobody else will fuck you unless you force them to. Is that why you advocate rape, marital or otherwise? I wouldn't personally wish rape on my worst enemy, but just to use your logic for a minute, let's see how you feel being forced to have sex against your will by some selfish bloke who's physically bigger than you and see how un-rapey it is. And thank God you can't get pregnant either.