J'Michelle Much More Educated than J'Slaves

[CaptainFunderpants]

I'm watching the episode from season one, where the girls and boys trade jobs for the day. In it it they describe that Michelle used to tow cars, has her real estate license, so on and so forth. She wasn't held back nearly so much by her family.

 

I feel like she didn't give her girls nearly the same opportunities that she was provided. It also seems as though they've gotten much more conservative in later years with the older girls, whereas much more liberal with the younger ones.

 

It also seems like things would've been different if the consecutive boys and girls had been swapped; had the majority of boys been older, they probably would've been more adept in terms of cooking and cleaning.

 

Other highlights of the episode include:

 

-The girls wearing tennis shoes.

-Michelle actually parenting.

-Smugger and John-David either already know how the kitchen works or it's beneath them. Both of them have definitely gotten less attractive as they age.

-ACTUAL PARENTING!

 

I can't help but wonder how much TLC has changed their lives for the negative.

[BrownieMomma]

Michelle doesn't seem stupid to me. She has a high school education, but since there's never been any crowing about her graduating high in her class, she probably didn't. Getting a high school diploma does not indicate much about the quality of education, you can get one by showing up a lot.

The kids "graduate" with a GED, so it's possible that their actual levels of education are similar.

idk how hard it is to get a real estate license.

I honestly do wonder that if the J'Slaves had been boys instead of girls, would JB&M have rethought that full quiver thing. But I guess God gave the girls precisely in order to keep the quiver filling.

[Ivycoveredtower]

Do I think the camera's made them more lax with the younger kids yes. I don't think Michelle has really parented though since maybe the younger twins were born. I mean even when Joy was born we know that she was being changed and cared for by JIll. and even in 14 kids and pregnant again Michelle admits she has the baby until it's weaned and then it's handed off to a buddy. Because the baby is her Buddy and she's JB's buddy. :ew: and we see little Joy trying to take care of James.

[busdrivingmom]

A real estate license requires classes and a test from the state. You have to take continuing education every two years to renew your license. I don't know exactly what it takes to drive a tow truck, probably a class B CDL. Requirements for that have changed over the years, and gotten much more strict, since Michelle had hers (if she did) and now.

Michelle had more options open to her than the girls do and she was expected to help support the household back then. It seems like everything the girls do is more of a hobby and not a career path or even a real job for them. Its just something else, that is Gothard approved, to keep them busy until courtship/engagement/marriage/kids

[Sundaymorning]

Yes, Michelle seems to have had a normal, all-American-girl childhood and youth. She had the options and could freely decide that she wanted to live the fundie life. Her daughters never got the opportunity to make their own decisions and to experience all the things J'Chelle could.

[BrownieMomma]

I thought Michelle got married at 17, that would mean those activities like real estate license and tow truck business were marital activities.

But I am not convinced this means Michelle is "much more educated" than her homeschooled kids, I mean getting a GED means passing a state test. Unless JB prints it off the Internet. I'm kidding, I think those are real GED's.

I think JB&M are all up in the older kids business but by the time the little girls are grown they will probably be pants-wearing college students.

[Ivycoveredtower]

I thought Michelle got married at 17, that would mean those activities like real estate license and tow truck business were marital activities.

But I am not convinced this means Michelle is "much more educated" than her homeschooled kids, I mean getting a GED means passing a state test. Unless JB prints it off the Internet. I'm kidding, I think those are real GED's.

I think JB&M are all up in the older kids business but by the time the little girls are grown they will probably be pants-wearing college students.

she was married at 17 but you have to remember that Michelle and JB didn't go off the deep end until right before the first set of twins were born when Michelle was in her 20's.

[EmeraldPickle]

I have a feeling that Michelle is way smarter than she lets on. I think she's the one who helps keep the Duggar finances in order, while playing up the JB is a good provider song and dance. I think she discreetly is a really good financial/numbers kind of person. The Duggars may have a poor literature/science/history education but i'm guessing math is a strong suit with that family. Behind the crazy Jim Bob gaze there's something ticking. TLC paychecks aside, look at all the property and small business' they have. Before ebil tv money came along they supported a family of 14 without either JB or Michelle ever going to a day of work. Mind you it wasn't pretty but they did it.I know couples with only two kids and two decent paying jobs and the ends barely meet. They are financially savy, even if they lack skills in all other areas. Michelle plays up the doting wife who's husband knows all role, when behind the scenes I think she might be wearing at least one pant leg of the families metaphorical leadership role.

[SassyPants]

I think Michelle speaks better than her kids. She properly uses subject/ verb agreement and tenses. She certainly articulates better than most of her offspring. If one does not speak well, one appears less educated. I do not live in the south, so to my ear, many of the Duggars come off sounding a bit backwards. I can not stand the dropping of the G on words ending in ING. Many of the kids display this tendency. For example, TEACHING is not pronounced TEACHIN.

[Toothfairy]

Michelle ain't smart because she joined gothard.

[roddma]

There i sno way you can take care of 14 kids even in good economic times with no help. I think that part isf exaggerated. The Duggars did get help from the church. I also imagine they got plenty of other love offerings. Given how the Bates struggle, it leaves a question. Then some people just make wise investment, but still no way to support so many kids.

Anyway it looks like the real estate licenses are updated. Michelle doesn't have a license.

https://www.ark.org/arec_renewals/index ... arch/agent

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

i agree that Michelle has a lot more control than what it looks like on the surface. Ultimately JB is the head of the family- but Michelle is the neck. I think Michelle has a lot of say and influence but she is clever enough to do it behind closed doors and not in front of the cameras. She realizes that coming right out and piping up or disagreeing with her headship would not portray the demure countenance expected from a fundie wife.

[grandmadugger]

I think Michelle speaks better than her kids. She properly uses subject/ verb agreement and tenses. She certainly articulates better than most of her offspring. If one does not speak well, one appears less educated. I do not live in the south, so to my ear, many of the Duggars come off sounding a bit backwards. I can not stand the dropping of the G on words ending in ING. Many of the kids display this tendency. For example, TEACHING is not pronounced TEACHIN.

When I get excited/nervous and talking fast I start dropping the G. When I get really mad ain't slips out. But, education doesn't equal the ability to speak or write well. I know educated people who sound like they haven't graduated high school.

[Sundaymorning]

I thought Michelle got married at 17, that would mean those activities like real estate license and tow truck business were marital activities.

But I am not convinced this means Michelle is "much more educated" than her homeschooled kids, I mean getting a GED means passing a state test. Unless JB prints it off the Internet. I'm kidding, I think those are real GED's.

I think JB&M are all up in the older kids business but by the time the little girls are grown they will probably be pants-wearing college students.

Hmm, having a high school diploma doesn't mean someone is really educated. That's true. And let's face it, most people forget a huge part of the things they learned in school a few years after graduating, unless they use them for their job or are especially interested in them. But, and that's why I'm thinking J'Chelle is more educated (if that's the right word) than her children, she actually grew up in the real world and not some fundie cult. Which means:

1. she had access to much more diverse information and opinions than her children. Her children only learn what the ATI wants them to learn (like that the earth was created in 7 days) and a lot of stuff is censored or banned anyways. J'Chelle didn't have these restricitions while growing up, she must have had a much broader horizon.

2. she knows or at least knew how to socialize in a group full of "normal" people, knows what it's like to go anywhere without constant supervision and "accountability partners", how it feels to be a student in a school or part of a sports team or to have friends that aren't your family members and so on.

3. She actually worked in the real world. Even as a high school girl (at Boobs mothers shop). Her daughters will never get that experience, even if they are allowed to have a job until they get married, they will be controlled, and will only be able to work at a very limited number of places that Boob and J'Chelle approve of. I doubt they will ever get to really apply for a job, but Boob will work something for them out.

[BrownieMomma]

Hmm, having a high school diploma doesn't mean someone is really educated. That's true. And let's face it, most people forget a huge part of the things they learned in school a few years after graduating, unless they use them for their job or are especially interested in them. But, and that's why I'm thinking J'Chelle is more educated (if that's the right word) than her children, she actually grew up in the real world and not some fundie cult. Which means:

1. she had access to much more diverse information and opinions than her children. Her children only learn what the ATI wants them to learn (like that the earth was created in 7 days) and a lot of stuff is censored or banned anyways. J'Chelle didn't have these restricitions while growing up, she must have had a much broader horizon.

2. she knows or at least knew how to socialize in a group full of "normal" people, knows what it's like to go anywhere without constant supervision and "accountability partners", how it feels to be a student in a school or part of a sports team or to have friends that aren't your family members and so on.

3. She actually worked in the real world. Even as a high school girl (at Boobs mothers shop). Her daughters will never get that experience, even if they are allowed to have a job until they get married, they will be controlled, and will only be able to work at a very limited number of places that Boob and J'Chelle approve of. I doubt they will ever get to really apply for a job, but Boob will work something for them out.

I think the word you are looking for is worldly.

For all that "normal" upbringing, access to opportunities, and whatnot, Michelle still became the Duggar matriarch and raised her children the way she has.

Which means, that upbringing didn't mean diddly squat, IMO.

You might think its sad that Michelle did things her own daughters aren't allowed to do, but believe me, JB&M believe their children have had a much better upbringing than their own.

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

I think that Michelle has more street smarts than her kids. That's one reason why I think that we will see the real crazy come out as these kids get married and have quivers of their own. JB and Michelle did not grow up fundie so they know how strange a lot of their behavior is and put a nice smiley PR spin on it.

Their kids have not been exposed to enough of the outside world to have the self awareness to do that. They will parade the crazy out in the living room instead of keeping it in the prayer closet.

[felicity]

I don't think the kids get a GED. You don't have to have a GED to do College Plus (or go to most colleges, for that matter) - and I think they just issue their own homeschool diploma.

Many homeschoolers look down on the GED and won't have their kids take the test bc they feel that it negates their homeschool diploma (which they view as a real HS diploma)...

I am a homeschooler in CA - and I don't plan on my kids ever getting a GED (unless they need to for some reason??? i wouldn't hold them back from that) - here in CA, we don't need a GED to begin college (although I may have them take the CHSPE exam if they want to start college early to make things simpler...)

[BrownieMomma]

Oh I completely agree that most homeschoolers eschew getting a GED, as if their homeschool education isn't up to par.

However, I saw two episodes of graduation, Josiah and Jinger, and JB was handing them a framed copy of the GED they'd earned.

Thought that was most unusual. Most homeschoolers I've ever known or known of, would jump through a zillion hoops to avoid that particular piece of paper.

[SassyPants]

I think 17 yo Michelle R. would have run away from home if her parents had restricted her activities as JB and M Duggar have curtailed their own kids.

Now, MR was the youngest and had aged parents by the time she approached them AT AGE 17 to marry JB, so maybe the parents were just done with raising kids and had plain given up????

Perhaps when Josie is of age, all of this nonsense will be history too? You know, if there's no more money to be made.

Let's hope so.

[grandmadugger]

There i sno way you can take care of 14 kids even in good economic times with no help. I think that part isf exaggerated. The Duggars did get help from the church. I also imagine they got plenty of other love offerings. Given how the Bates struggle, it leaves a question. Then some people just make wise investment, but still no way to support so many kids.

Anyway it looks like the real estate licenses are updated. Michelle doesn't have a license.

https://www.ark.org/arec_renewals/index ... arch/agent

I think the big difference between the Bates and Duggars is a work ethic. Jim Bob has his finger in lots of pots, commercial and residential rental, various business, etc. Gil Bates doesn't. He has a tree trimming business. That's not a huge income bringer in rural areas. If Gil had the business sense that JB has he wouldn't struggle as much. I also think JB's work ethic is 10 times that of Gil's.

[SassyPants]

I think the big difference between the Bates and Duggars is a work ethic. Jim Bob has his finger in lots of pots, commercial and residential rental, various business, etc. Gil Bates doesn't. He has a tree trimming business. That's not a huge income bringer in rural areas. If Gil had the business sense that JB has he wouldn't struggle as much. I also think JB's work ethic is 10 times that of Gil's.

I'm not sure JB has more work ethic. I think JB is more cunning.

Gil might be more authentically spiritual.

Kelly seems to really enjoy being a mom to a mega family-

I think JB convinced M that having kids (after Justin) was the best way to shill for a living.

A con artist sells what he has. JB sold his ever growing family to TLC for easy money.

Most of us have too much sense and concern for our kids, to ever make such a decision.

[LongDogMom]

I'm watching the episode from season one, where the girls and boys trade jobs for the day. In it it they describe that Michelle used to tow cars, has her real estate license, so on and so forth. She wasn't held back nearly so much by her family.

I feel like she didn't give her girls nearly the same opportunities that she was provided. It also seems as though they've gotten much more conservative in later years with the older girls, whereas much more liberal with the younger ones.

This is the thing that bothers me the most about the Duggars. They are denying their children education that they really need and should have. It's not right. Even midwifery - in many States I believe you have to be certified and require a college degree. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwives_i ... ted_States

[artdecades]

I have noticed a trend on the episodes where Michelle talks in confessional about things that she did growing up that her children did not do or were not exposed to until later. I am not talking about the secular world, but everyday things that seemed to be deprived.

For instance, I remember them talking about rollerskating, bowling, and visiting petting zoos in this manner. I think its sad and weird that Michelle talks so highly of doing these things during her childhood but deprived her children of similar experiences.

Not really about being smarter or more educated, just more experienced

[grandmadugger]

I'm not sure JB has more work ethic. I think JB is more cunning.

Gil might be more authentically spiritual.

Kelly seems to really enjoy being a mom to a mega family-

I think JB convinced M that having kids (after Justin) was the best way to shill for a living.

A con artist sells what he has. JB sold his ever growing family to TLC for easy money.

Most of us have too much sense and concern for our kids, to ever make such a decision.

Gil has tried his hand at having his family on their own TV show so he's attempting to sell his family as well.

I'm not trying to defend JB, there's a lot that makes me ill about him, but I can't deny that he has set up business that supply a steady income.

[Toothfairy]

How much did JB make a year before the show? sellli ng commercials properties doesn't really bring in large sums of money, but Jim Bob is cheap