Nathan and Christopher Maxwell talk Jesus and drivers

[terranova]

samaritanministries.org/category/uncategorized/page/7/

An interesting article/profile on Nathan and Christopher, going into their teaching techniques. I especially enjoyed this quote

When, in the Computer Essentials course, Nathan talks about drivers, he has to define what they are: A driver is a piece of software that helps your operating system communicate with the hardware. An analogy he uses is Jesus. Just as a driver is a go-between for software and hardware, so Jesus is a go-between for humanity and God the Father.

“He’s the Intermediary,†Nathan says.

Christopher relates that he has paused a session to “share my heart about why we need a Savior.â€

“We make sure we cover everything in the class,†he says. “But we also make it clear that you could be the best in the world at QuickBooks, be great at your job, run a great business, be a great entrepreneur, but if you lose your soul, what is it worth? We’re equipping students vocationally, but if they gain the whole world vocationally and aren’t saved, everything’s lost.â€

They also go on to slam college and skite about paying bills on time.

[anjulibai]

Their business model makes more sense to me know. It's not just that they are teaching this stuff, they are also preaching. That's why they think they think they offer something different from what else is out there - there stuff is loaded with Jesus, whereas that free stuff is not.

[Justme]

And do you still think nath is turning "light". He's just as big of a prick as his old man. No more weddings. No more Maxwells.

[anjulibai]

“Contrast that debt with the earning potential possible if you are actively employed during those years making $15 to $20 per hour,†Nathan says. “You can walk out of college with $75,000 to $100,000 in debt, or you can finish those years with $100,000 to $150,000 in the bank.â€

1. What they offer is not really what I think of as college. I don't remember a Quickbooks class being offered by the business department of my college. Maybe community college, which certainly doesn't cost that much money.

2. While universities are way too expensive these days, you don't have to go to one that costs as much as they are quoting.

3. They really think you can earn that much money in four years knowing Quickbooks? Bwahahahaha!!! Oh man, they are really out of touch, aren't they?

[justakitten]

Have $100,000 to $150,000 in the bank after 4 years? I think they failed their "Practical Learning 101" class. They aren't taking into account paying taxes, mortgage/rent, expenses, etc.

[amydamy]

1. What they offer is not really what I think of as college. I don't remember a Quickbooks class being offered by the business department of my college. Maybe community college, which certainly doesn't cost that much money.

2. While universities are way too expensive these days, you don't have to go to one that costs as much as they are quoting.

3. They really think you can earn that much money in four years knowing Quickbooks? Bwahahahaha!!! Oh man, they are really out of touch, aren't they?

I'm an accountant. I've never used quickbooks I've always worked for larger companies that use ERP's. My understanding was that quickooks is basically an electronic ledger so you would also have to have at least a basic understanding of accounting to get a job using quickbooks.

[Dru]

And do you still think nath is turning "light". He's just as big of a prick as his old man. No more weddings. No more Maxwells.

Nobody is as big of a prick as his old man.

[16strong]

These people have no clue that one can get scholarships to attend college, and then it costs little or no money. One can also attend a smaller community-based college while living at home and spend a lot less that way. I hate how they always give one-size blanket answers that fail to accurately describe what they are talking about.

[nausicaa]

Have $100,000 to $150,000 in the bank after 4 years? I think they failed their "Practical Learning 101" class. They aren't taking into account paying taxes, mortgage/rent, expenses, etc.

I was just about to post about that. Making $100,000 or $150,000 over the period of four years is NOT the same thing as saving $100,000 to $150,000 over four years. Ironically this is a mistake a lot of financially ignorant kids make when they have their first real job and believe they're rich, normally leading to credit card debt.

Also, $50,000 a year is already quite a generous estimation even as a gross salary, it is damn near impossible as net. And even if we are only talking about stay at home sons, I would hope such a gainfully employed son would help his mother and father out with food, and pay for his own car, clothing, and entertainment.

[Dandruff]

How does their analogy between drivers and Jesus establish that Jesus is needed as an intermediary? It's their belief, which they're entitled to, but I don't see proof here.

[fundiefan]

I was just about to post about that. Making $100,000 or $150,000 over the period of four years is NOT the same thing as saving $100,000 to $150,000 over four years. Ironically this is a mistake a lot of financially ignorant kids make when they have their first real job and believe they're rich, normally leading to credit card debt.

Also, $50,000 a year is already quite a generous estimation even as a gross salary, it is damn near impossible as net. And even if we are only talking about stay at home sons, I would hope such a gainfully employed son would help his mother and father out with food, and pay for his own car, clothing, and entertainment.

This is just a part of the problem I see with their whole living at home until marriage thing and Steve's buying a home debt free crap. At home, they are not paying bills. They are not budgeting. They are not buying cars in their own name or insuring those cars or paying for repairs or mainetnance or gas. They are not doing anything but 'save' to buy that house in cash. Then, they get married and have to do the real life thing and I can't imagine it being an easy transition for someone who is not a Maxwell robot. Suddently, after working and saving every penny, you have to pay utilities, your own cell phone and Interent, buy groceries and deodorant; your own polo shirts and khakis.

Most kids are paying for life as they live it, not sitting under mom and dad's thumb and check book. Your average kid, even in many fundie circles, is going to school (college! gasp!), working some sort of job, payng their own car insurance and cell phone bills. Even Gothard junkies like the Pecan theif was 'working' as a young chap. It's very, very rare to find a family that can and will 100% support their adult offspring.

So, the Maxwells debt free crap has no real adudience. People buying the book do not live like they do and will never have a son with $200K in the bank at age 25.

Also note, they said in that interview that the Maxwell boys bought their houses debt free in their 20's. That's a lie. Christopher was 30 or 31. Dude had way more years idling under daddy's thumb than the average fundie boy who needs to provide for a family. Remember, Steive doesn't marry his kids off at 20 like so many fundies. He keeps them around until they're pretty damn ripe.

That was a lot of disjointed rambling to say what we all know anyway. The Maxwells are fucked up and have zero clue what life in the real world with real people is.

[Jezebel]

1. What they offer is not really what I think of as college. I don't remember a Quickbooks class being offered by the business department of my college. Maybe community college, which certainly doesn't cost that much money.

The community college nearest to me offers Quickbooks levels 1&2 through Continuing Ed--they're low-cost, non-credit courses open to anyone with the $169 fee for each section. Each class meets three times, for a total of nine hours' in-class instruction.

The students in those classes tend to be older, or else people who are already working adults who are there to pick up another skill. The class periods are focused on covering the material and getting the students comfortable with the software. It isn't party time, or a setting for Marxist/feminist/secular humanist indoctrination.

Of course, any Maxwell kid would look around at the women who work for money outside the home, or who want to start their own businesses, or who wear pants, and sit in judgmemt of them. Or they might consider the men who are not their own bosses inferior. And they might have a really hard time sitting in a class for three hours with no mentions of Jesus, Heaven, Hell, or salvation, no opportunity to proselytize, and certain rejection if they chose to do so.

Needing a practical course in how to use Quickbooks that is loaded with constant references to Jesus doesn't make these people seem more godly, or stronger in their faith--it just makes them seem incredibly anxious, and in constant need of assurance and re-assurance that they are on the right path through life. It just tells me how terrified they actually are.

2. While universities are way too expensive these days, you don't have to go to one that costs as much as they are quoting.

There are a lot of ways to get through college without taking on a crippling load of debt. Living at home and working a part-time job while taking as many courses as you can at a community college, then transferring to the nearest public 4-year school, is one way.

And then there's deciding that getting a Bachelor's maybe isn't the best choice for you, personally, and choosing a vocational program at a community college or public technical school. The world still needs electricians, respiratory therapists, plumbers, nurses, bookkeepers, pastry cooks, etc., and for a lot of people these will be far more satisfying choices than going to a four-year school.

3. They really think you can earn that much money in four years knowing Quickbooks? Bwahahahaha!!! Oh man, they are really out of touch, aren't they?

Yeah, they are really out of touch. Sure, if you're living with your parents and have very modest personal expenses, no hobbies, don't travel, rarely eat out, have the hustle needed to keep up a steady stream of income, and sock away every penny you possibly can, you could have a really nice nest egg in four years, even after taxes and SS.

But I still don't see the Maxwell boys, paying cash for their houses, as coming out ahead. That big savings balance comes at a cost--in this case, intellectually, emotionally, and, I would venture, spiritually.

Was it Joseph who once boasted about how he'd never had to participate in the "filth" of a normal childhood, complete with Little League games, church youth groups, or even friends? If I had a son, and had a say in the matter, I'd rather he be $150K in debt than have Joseph Maxwell's paid-for house and painfully narrow view of life. It's far easier to pull yourself up out of the morass of debt than it is to grow out of that kind of stunted worldview.

[Odd1Out]

I was just about to post about that. Making $100,000 or $150,000 over the period of four years is NOT the same thing as saving $100,000 to $150,000 over four years. Ironically this is a mistake a lot of financially ignorant kids make when they have their first real job and believe they're rich, normally leading to credit card debt.

Also, $50,000 a year is already quite a generous estimation even as a gross salary, it is damn near impossible as net. And even if we are only talking about stay at home sons, I would hope such a gainfully employed son would help his mother and father out with food, and pay for his own car, clothing, and entertainment.

Entertainment?? Staring at the wall doesn't cost much.

[HereticHick]

Counting flowers on the wall??

[HoneyBunny]

I'm an accountant. I've never used quickbooks I've always worked for larger companies that use ERP's. My understanding was that quickooks is basically an electronic ledger so you would also have to have at least a basic understanding of accounting to get a job using quickbooks.

This. Do they really think that being able to build a spreadsheet or use a software program gives you the ability to know GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles)? And are they truly comparing their correspondence course education with the sort you'd get from graduating from a college where the four year degree cost was $100000 or more? One thing for sure...regardless of how deprived we think the Maxwell's lives are, there is no shortage there of hubris.

[Sailing on Europa]

Contrast that debt with the earning potential possible if you are actively employed during those years making $15 to $20 per hour,†Nathan says. “You can walk out of college with $75,000 to $100,000 in debt, or you can finish those years with $100,000 to $150,000 in the bank.

Even if those numbers were accurate (and they aren't), this view is shortsighted. It compares debt vs savings when the college grad hasn't even started his/her career yet. What about down the road 5 or 20 years? The person who went to college is probably going to earn more in the long run. (I know this is not always the case, but in general college grads earn more.) My sister racked up a ton of debt going to pharmacy school, but now she makes over 100k per year, so in the Maxwell's little scenario she would quickly come out ahead of the person who worked during those years.

And yeah, if I could get a job right now that pays $20 just for knowing quickbooks, I'd love to know about it.

[amydamy]

Even if those numbers were accurate (and they aren't), this view is shortsighted. It compares debt vs savings when the college grad hasn't even started his/her career yet. What about down the road 5 or 20 years? The person who went to college is probably going to earn more in the long run. (I know this is not always the case, but in general college grads earn more.) My sister racked up a ton of debt going to pharmacy school, but now she makes over 100k per year, so in the Maxwell's little scenario she would quickly come out ahead of the person who worked during those years.

And yeah, if I could get a job right now that pays $20 just for knowing quickbooks, I'd love to know about it.

I graduated with a degree in accounting in 2003 and I didn't start making $20/ hour until I sucked it up and took the CPA exam about 5 years after I graduated. I have no idea where they are getting that number from.

[Three and Done]

*Snip*

And then there's deciding that getting a Bachelor's maybe isn't the best choice for you, personally, and choosing a vocational program at a community college or public technical school. The world still needs electricians, respiratory therapists, plumbers, nurses, bookkeepers, pastry cooks, etc., and for a lot of people these will be far more satisfying choices than going to a four-year school.

*Snip*

Here in NY, you HAVE to have at least an Associates degree to be a registered nurse, although it is expected that BSN's will be the accepted standard in years to come.

[shedemei]

Having had extensive experience with drivers, that statement makes me pretty wary of Jesus. Chances are good that Jesus isn't compatible with me or is seriously buggy. I don't want to risk ending up in registry and DLL hell.

[socalrules]

I am trying to figure out what job you can get, while uneducated, that makes you $15 to $20 an hour. Plus, as a fundy, you are supposed to work for yourself and not someone else so what does this type of job entail?

I have $100k in student loans and pay almost $800 a month on them. I am still making way more money with that $800 a month taken out than I would if decided to stay uneducated like the Maxwells. What's funny is that I, and everyone else on FJ, could save a crap load of money but we like to eat out, spend time with friends, have hobbies, donate to charity and live life as though it's the only one we have. Plus, speaking for myself, I like have more than a couple of crumpets to wear. I would bet most of what the maxwell sons saved was made from the family business of shilling chore packs. What would they have if not for that business? How would they make money? I don't for a minute believe that their IT business makes enough to sustain a family.

Also, the one thing about college Nathan and Christopher don't understand is that it is about more than just getting a job when you are finished. It opens your eyes to a world you didn't know existed. You experience new ideas, people and cultures never before available. Most of all it allows you learn who you are outside of your family. The experience is worth the money.

[FloraKitty35]

Entertainment?? Staring at the wall doesn't cost much.

Scrubbing cabinets counts as entertainment...right?

[lilith]

"“We’re trying to keep the Lord as a focus through the whole thing,†he says. “That can sound kind of clichéd, because that’s kind of the Christian lingo thing.â€

- See more at: http://samaritanministries.org/member-s ... L3eOq.dpuf

Coming from the Maxwells, who use more Christian cliches in any single blog post than most people would in a lifetime.....

[lilith]

That's so weird, I copy and pasted on my iPhone, just the quote, and the link got put on automatically. It's actually a pretty cool feature, but I haven't seen it before

[MamaJunebug]

Their business model makes more sense to me know. It's not just that they are teaching this stuff, they are also preaching. That's why they think they think they offer something different from what else is out there - there stuff is loaded with Jesus, whereas that free stuff is not.

The thing is - one shouldn't have to pay to get Jesus. :evil-eye:

[MamaJunebug]

1. What they offer is not really what I think of as college. I don't remember a Quickbooks class being offered by the business department of my college. Maybe community college, which certainly doesn't cost that much money.

2. While universities are way too expensive these days, you don't have to go to one that costs as much as they are quoting.

3. They really think you can earn that much money in four years knowing Quickbooks? Bwahahahaha!!! Oh man, they are really out of touch, aren't they?

Well, in their model, the person who knows QuickBooks is living at his [sic] parents' home, has no children because he has no home of his own and therefore no wife, and so the $25,000 he earned working for somebody or as an entrepreneur can be "in the bank." That's if he [sic] actually nets $25k.

I probably should read all the responses because I'm probably duplicating efforts here. But OMFSM, these people make me see red!