Positive parenting: Discipline without pain

[2xx1xy1JD]

As a spinoff from the massive Ken threads, and by popular request, here's a thread for sharing positive parenting resources, tips and stories.

I'll start off with my favorite resources:

"Kids Are Worth It", Barbara Colorosso

"How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk", Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish

"To Kindle a Soul", Lawrence Kelemen

"Raising Roses Among the Thorns", Rabbi Noach Orlowek (aimed at a religious Jewish audience, but filled with good, common sense advice for anyone)

http://www.triplep.net/glo-en/home/

http://www.triplepontario.ca/en/home.aspx

[cindyluvs24]

I'll just present my kid as Exhibit A. Boy Scout, college freshman, helpful, polite,self-confident and a sense of humor.

[2xx1xy1JD]

My kids:

Girl 1 - straight As and A+s in her first year of high school, helpful and responsible, still confides in me, extremely hardworking and organized

Girl 2 - highest academic achievement award when she graduated elementary school, quiet but still sociable, a peacemaker who gets along with everyone including her little brother, great with the younger cousins, responsible, cheerful

Boy - sweet and likeable with a great sense of humor, gets along with everyone, very helpful, good student, great athlete with great sportsmanship and sense of fair play, great with younger kids

All 3 - great comments from teachers and friends' parents, loved by all, absolutely no behavioral concerns, kind and thoughtful

My husband's family:

All 4 kids are amazing - not just smart, but genuinely decent and very family-oriented.

Husband - doctor (subspecialist)

brother 1 - dentist

brother 2 - doctor (cardiologist)

sister - social worker

[martian]

Oh, wow. Thanks for this! I'm determined to never hit, and I've even given non-coercive parenting a try, but things are very challenging as my two are getting to pre-school age.

In particular, if anyone can point me to any resources, books, or forums for parenting for abuse survivors, I would be eternally grateful. I honestly had no idea how triggering parenting would be. And I've never actually frequented any Mommy boards, I don't think, so if there's a good one with a thread on the topic, I'd love to know.

Apologies in advance if my replies are slow. Toddlers in the house.

[Ms Jess]

I have used and loved "Love and Logic." It has a slightly Christian spin on it and I am not Christian but it's easy enough for me to disregard that and apply the basic principles. It has been a life saver in our family.

[Anny Nym]

@2xx1xy1JD, that´s such a sweet idea of you. I did read all the threads but restrained from commenting on them and when other FJers had to dig through Lori´s blog and quote all the horrible and cruel things the Alexanders did to and say about their children and grandchildren and child-rearing in general, I literally had tears in my eyes and was pale with rage.

As for my Nymlings:

2 wonderful girls of not yet school age, unspanked, un-screamed-at, no irrational fears installed at them. We use/d co-sleeper and Yayita... and nobody kicks the cat in this house either :wink-kitty:

I consider Jesper Juul as great well of wisdom: http://www.jesperjuul.com/en/

[ladyamylynn]

One of my good friends is a single dad who raised the nicest, smartest kid I've ever met. I've know them since he was in 8th grade, now he's in his second year at university, majoring in Environmental Engineering. Great grades, swim team captain, responsible, very popular with the ladies. My friend used "Love and Logic" even though he's decidedly NOT a christian or religious at all.

[yetanothermeg]

Oh, wow. Thanks for this! I'm determined to never hit, and I've even given non-coercive parenting a try, but things are very challenging as my two are getting to pre-school age.

In particular, if anyone can point me to any resources, books, or forums for parenting for abuse survivors, I would be eternally grateful. I honestly had no idea how triggering parenting would be. And I've never actually frequented any Mommy boards, I don't think, so if there's a good one with a thread on the topic, I'd love to know.

Apologies in advance if my replies are slow. Toddlers in the house.

This is not for abuse survivors per-se, but I recommend Scream-Free Parenting to give you insight into your own emotions. I found it very helpful.

[jjmennonite]

Oh, wow. Thanks for this! I'm determined to never hit, and I've even given non-coercive parenting a try, but things are very challenging as my two are getting to pre-school age.

In particular, if anyone can point me to any resources, books, or forums for parenting for abuse survivors, I would be eternally grateful. I honestly had no idea how triggering parenting would be. And I've never actually frequented any Mommy boards, I don't think, so if there's a good one with a thread on the topic, I'd love to know.

Apologies in advance if my replies are slow. Toddlers in the house.

THIS!

OMG, parenting is/was the most triggering thing in the world. I managed, without hitting her, or subjecting her to any of the abuse I was subject to. Exhibit A - lovely, compassionate, human being, works summers and part time during school, 4th year student, varsity athlete.

Martian, I was horrified when I had 'child-beater thoughts' when she was little and I could not calm her. However, I never translated those thoughts into actions, so I was not a child-beater. Fortunately, she always LOVED her athletics, so I only had to threaten to take away a practice or a game, and she would comply.

I am an evil single mother with dogs and cats for headships, so we were especially challenged (NOT). It was much easier for me than many of my single mother friends and sisters, as I did not have to interact with her father or debrief her after upsetting visits.

[Childless]

We're raising our son without spanking, hitting, or yelling. At 3.5 years old, he's about the sweetest kid you'll ever meet. If one of us is feeling under the weather, he'll come and rub our arms and ask us if he needs to get us some medicine to make us feel better. Even though he's an only child, he shares all his toys. If he gets a treat (M&Ms or the like), he always shares with mommy and daddy (or with cousins if they're around). If they're serving a snack at school that he doesn't like, he simply says "No, thanks" and goes and plays with something while everyone else eats. He doesn't ask for anything else and he doesn't throw a fit. Don't get me wrong, he's 3 years old, so we do have some 3 year old problems, but for the most part he's incredibly well-behaved, compassionate, and kind. He's a very happy child which I attribute to his knowing and feeling loved. There is absolutely no reason to spank a child. There are plenty of other ways to discipline that don't involve violence and work better than spanking ever could. My son is proof that producing a smart, well-behaved, happy, and sweet toddler does not need to involve hitting.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I'll see what I can find for abuse survivors.

I know my mom used the "How to Talk..." book with us, when she was deliberately trying to find a way to avoid being like her (bipolar and narcissistic) mother.

I like books like To Kindle a Soul, even if you ignore the religious part, because they step back from the idea of obedience and seeing everything as defiance and power struggle. You realize that you have far more tools at your disposal.

[martian]

THIS!

OMG, parenting is/was the most triggering thing in the world. I managed, without hitting her, or subjecting her to any of the abuse I was subject to. Exhibit A - lovely, compassionate, human being, works summers and part time during school, 4th year student, varsity athlete.

Martian, I was horrified when I had 'child-beater thoughts' when she was little and I could not calm her. However, I never translated those thoughts into actions, so I was not a child-beater. Fortunately, she always LOVED her athletics, so I only had to threaten to take away a practice or a game, and she would comply.

I am an evil single mother with dogs and cats for headships, so we were especially challenged (NOT). It was much easier for me than many of my single mother friends and sisters, as I did not have to interact with her father or debrief her after upsetting visits.

I thought I had reached an age where I was finally done with rehashing, analyzing, or even thinking much about my past because done is done, right? Minimizing and compartmentalizing for the survivor win! And, now, with every new stage I get to relive my past from this new perspective as the parent of these vulnerable little people. I was never so angry at my parents as I have become after having children myself, not least because my thoughts horrify me, too, and I am so, so bitter to find this new layer of damage. It feels like a fresh betrayal. I don't hit, I don't even raise my voice often, but the anger and urge to hit is in me like a reflex and what if they can sense that? It sounds like you are doing a fantastic job. I really hope I can, too, because continuing the cycle is not an option, and just not hitting is far short of good enough.

yetanothermeg - I looked that book up on Amazon and I really liked what the blurb said about mutual respect and focusing more on your own behavior than on the kids'. I'm going to see if the library has it. Thanks!

I'll see what I can find for abuse survivors.

I know my mom used the "How to Talk..." book with us, when she was deliberately trying to find a way to avoid being like her (bipolar and narcissistic) mother.

I like books like To Kindle a Soul, even if you ignore the religious part, because they step back from the idea of obedience and seeing everything as defiance and power struggle. You realize that you have far more tools at your disposal.

I really appreciate you doing that. I have looked, but my Google fu has failed me. I found one website for survivors of child sexual abuse and read through thinking to find something applicable, but some of the posters there seemed to actually be fishing for details of people's abuse histories in a way that makes me want to take a shower even thinking about it. Seems like it wouldn't be so difficult to find people somewhere discussing the topic but, I don't know. Maybe not many people want to talk about it.

[LilyRose]

I would also add Dr Laura Markham's" Peaceful Parents Happy Kids" to the list.

I struggle sometimes to be a peaceful parent- I have health probs and am a Mum to several young boys under the age of 7 in a 2 bed house, so as you can probably imagine life gets pretty intense around here.

What I really like about this book is that it goes into you as a parent working on yourself- looking after yourself, and being mindful of your own emotions, as well as how to deal with your children.

[LilyRose]

Sorry meant to add that while "Peaceful Parents" is not specifically targeted at abuse survivors, speaking as an abuse survivor myself, I have found that it has a lot of helpful suggestions for how to deal with the unpleasant, and intrusive emotions that I sometimes get when going through a bad patch, or when a certain emotion is triggered.

Things like, when I start to feel those feelings rising inside me that it's OK not to deal with things then and there; it's OK to take some time out and wait for those feelings to subside- go outside to the garden, hum (sounds crazy but it does help when you feel that you just have to make some noise), jump up and down and shake it out, tapping the acupressure point on you hands- basically just doing things to restore your equilibrium, then go back and talk to your child/children about whatever the problem might be.

[Jana814]

We're raising our son without spanking, hitting, or yelling. At 3.5 years old, he's about the sweetest kid you'll ever meet. If one of us is feeling under the weather, he'll come and rub our arms and ask us if he needs to get us some medicine to make us feel better. Even though he's an only child, he shares all his toys. If he gets a treat (M&Ms or the like), he always shares with mommy and daddy (or with cousins if they're around). If they're serving a snack at school that he doesn't like, he simply says "No, thanks" and goes and plays with something while everyone else eats. He doesn't ask for anything else and he doesn't throw a fit. Don't get me wrong, he's 3 years old, so we do have some 3 year old problems, but for the most part he's incredibly well-behaved, compassionate, and kind. He's a very happy child which I attribute to his knowing and feeling loved. There is absolutely no reason to spank a child. There are plenty of other ways to discipline that don't involve violence and work better than spanking ever could. My son is proof that producing a smart, well-behaved, happy, and sweet toddler does not need to involve hitting.

Sounds like u r raising a very sweet & kind child. The thing w/ the snack is something more kids would do.

[Full enough quiver]

I don't scream or hit. I think how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk is the greatest book ever, and worked awesome with the girls, but I was at the end of my rope with the boys. The constant bickering, tattling, and lying was driving me nuts.

Oddly enough, my favorite discipline tool came from FJ, which led me to raising godly tomatoes. When they acted out, I "tomato staked" them, keeping them in my sight so I could gently redirect bad behaviors. I explained that trust is earned, and that freedom would come with appropriate behavior. No yelling or hitting, and they benefit from spending time together, and I have plenty of opportunities to hug them and praise them as much as possible. 10 months later, their behavior is a million times better, and they can play independently. Any wrongdoing, and it's back to being my shadow.

[Luvmyskinnyjeanz]

Sometimes I think people forget that children are individuals and not accessories. They have their own personalities and views, no amount of hitting will change who they are. We did spank a few times and all it did was escalate the situation. We teach them that they have to accept the consequences of their actions.. So if they don't do homework or get in trouble at school we don't make excuses for them, so far it's working. Kids learn by example and by experiencing things not being hit.

[polecat]

Oh, wow. Thanks for this! I'm determined to never hit, and I've even given non-coercive parenting a try, but things are very challenging as my two are getting to pre-school age.

In particular, if anyone can point me to any resources, books, or forums for parenting for abuse survivors, I would be eternally grateful. I honestly had no idea how triggering parenting would be. And I've never actually frequented any Mommy boards, I don't think, so if there's a good one with a thread on the topic, I'd love to know.

Apologies in advance if my replies are slow. Toddlers in the house.

I don't know how much out there is geared specifically towards abuse survivors. I think the biggest thing for me is realizing how very much different it can be. I called my sister and *cried* the day I realized that my kids genuinely liked me. That sounds like such a small thing, but I was terrified of my parents. Liking them was the last thing on my mind because I was so focused on simply surviving. I certainly didn't want to spend any more time with them than I absolutely had to. My kids enjoy doing stuff with me whether we're walking around the track or headed to the grocery. Little things. Those little things go a long way towards making me see what family *should* be and more importantly what it can be.

My kids are not perfect. They are stubborn and hard-headed, and each of them has been blessed with varying degrees of a short temper. They come by all those things honestly: My husband has a short temper, and I'm about as stubborn as a person can be. But by the same token, they stand up for the right thing. They are kind and compassionate and thoughtful little people. They are interesting and fun, and I genuinely like being around them, too. Their friends' parents always have positive things to say about them.

Parenting has had its tough parts especially with all of mine being so close in age, but it's been rewarding. Be gentle with yourself, and be gentle with your children. The rewards are immeasurable.

[Arete]

When my sister had her first child my dad summed up his parenting philosophy in one sentence

"You have to TALK to the animals"

Not the most PC phrasing, but he raised us as a single father and never once came close to hitting us. No one went to jail, no one went to rehab, and everyone finished college.

[AuntCloud]

I want to play, too.

The Cloudlets spent many, many hours strapped to me or their dad in a wraparound carrier. We responded whenever they needed us at night although we never co-slept. They were fed on demand, talked to, played with and comforted - even when we were dog tired or didn't feel like it. Can't say we never yelled or were exasperated, we are far from perfect, but the proof is in the pudding: cloudlet #1 has been on the honour roll since grade 5, cloudlet #2 makes hilarious movies and is a champion minecrafter, both are deeply loving and emphatic and have formed strong friendships. Both a are animal lovers, play their instruments and help with chores without beatings or threats, and have the capability to ocommunicate as reasonable humans because that's what they have learned at home.

My recommended book is "the blessing of a b-minus", recommended by our own 2xx1xy1jd.

[formergothardite]

I read this blog post yesterday and I thought it would be good for this thread.

http://www.playingwithwords365.com/2014 ... espect-me/

Some of the best parts that are good to remember when you are struggling with a small child who seems to be trying to drive you mad.

I am but a small child who has been here just a short time. I am watching, listening, and learning about my world. I learn from all of you.

I am learning how to trust and respect others. But in order to learn to trust and respect, I need you to trust and respect ME.

I may be little, but I am still a person. A whole, capable person. I have feelings and opinions and ideas. You may not agree or like or even understand them, but they are mine. Please respect them.

Please respect that I am learning how to talk about and handle my big feelings like fear, anger and frustration. I may yell, cry and throw myself on the ground because these feelings are too big for me to communicate. Can you please “listen†to my actions and help me through these feelings rather than dismiss them or punish me

Please respect that sometimes I may shut down when you ask me to do hard things. I am not doing this because I am “spoiledâ€. I am still learning to communicate these feelings and sometimes this is how I show you it’s too hard for me right now. Can you please trust me and give me a little more help?

[latraviata]

When my sister had her first child my dad summed up his parenting philosophy in one sentence

"You have to TALK to the animals"

Not the most PC phrasing, but he raised us as a single father and never once came close to hitting us. No one went to jail, no one went to rehab, and everyone finished college.

My father said, a good child raises itself.......

[hahe77]

I didn't read books but followed what my heart said. If it didn't feel right, I didn't do it. I was on the attachment parenting spectrum so my babies were in a sling on me, slept in bed with us, were nursed on demand and were never spanked.

Child #1 is a senior in high school with a college scholarship to play football in the fall. He's a good kid who is respectful, helpful, funny, athletically gifted, gets good grades and wants to major in criminal justice. He has always been a free spirit and I never tried to contain it. He is who he is and I couldn't be prouder of him.

Child #2 is in 6th grade. She is sensitive, caring, funny, determined and an all A student. Her goal for 7th grade is to be in advanced English and won't settle for anything less.

Both children were raised without being hit, blanket trained or made to conform to my lifestyle. They are great kids and I am so proud of them. :D

[lemonhead]

These are some great suggestions. I especially appreciate the discussions on parenting as an abuse survivor--there are so many things we have to learn to do without ever having had a positive role model or experience to draw on, and it's easy to feel discouraged and inferior as a parent.

I have a few suggestions for the younger set, specifically for babies that have difficulty sleeping. While the Pearls might recommend hitting the baby until it stops crying, my parents just said we should use the cry it out method. I know this works for some people and I don't want to start a peanut butter war over this, so I'll just say that it felt too much like abandonment to me and that is a huge trigger. So I found alternatives.

My first just needed a little help with transitioning into sleep. Once he got to sleep, it was great, but he cried and fussed when we put him down, and it was turning bedtime into a nightmare. We read The No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley, and it worked. He began falling asleep independently, at 4 months old, with very little fuss. I was a happy momma :)

Then DD came along. She was in the NICU for a while, and came home with some serious sleep problems. After 9 months of her worsening sleep--screaming for hours, then falling asleep for only an hour or two at a time--I was at the end of my rope and almost unable to function. The No Cry Sleep Solution didn't work with her. In desperation, I ducked into the Barnes and Noble on my lunch break one day and found The Sleep Lady's Good Night, Sleep Tight by Kim West. I read the entire book covertly at my desk that afternoon, and started her method that night. OMG, the first night was awful, heartbreaking, because there was a lot of crying but you do not abandon your child with this approach. She fell asleep after 3 hours of crying, but the second night and thereafter it got better. The book also has techniques for toddlers and older kids.

Happiest Baby on the Block by Dr. Harvey Karp was also really great for helping me understand why babies cry and how to soothe them, rather than taking it personally, getting upset and punishing them, which is what I learned growing up.

I also found the websites by Dr. Sears and Dr. Alan Greene to be so helpful and reassuring as a new and totally inexperienced mother. I never did full scale attachment parenting, but I learned a lot of gentle and patient parenting techniques from these sites.

[feministxtian]

I am sad to say that I did spank my kids. Yet, I never went as far as Mr. Alexander claims is necessary. I remember tapping my daughter's hand (with my finger) when she would touch certain things. I never had to clear the occasional tables. My sons, the same thing. However, I nursed them all (in one case for 2 years) and vaguely remember being bitten. It may have happened once or twice and I just removed the child from the source of food. I never felt the need to beat them with a switch, a belt, a wooden spoon or any of those things. After a certain age (maybe 5?) they learned consequences...like fighting with your brother got you 15 minutes in the time out chair. The daughter who would read all night (instead of sleeping) would have to take her books out of her room (fate worse than death for her). Sassing mom got extra chores.

I got beaten as a kid...I swore that I wouldn't do that...and for the most part, I didn't.

I do remember trying to teach my youngest not to touch the hot stove. I'd pull him away and say "no baby, it's hot". But...he'd go right back. So finally, I let him touch the oven door. He looked up at me with big, surprised eyes and said "it's HOT mommy!". He never touched it again.

Yet...they did not cry themselves to sleep. I remember putting a whole lot of miles on the bentwood rocker I had snuggling a cranky infant and toddler.

So...I've ended up with a graphic artist, a former soldier who's now a full-time college student and executive assistant to the CEO of a certain company and an electrician.

They weren't angels but they weren't out of control devils either.