Lori - V-Day Causes Divorce - Now With Moar Ken! Part 2

[formergothardite]

By the way Ken, you lost me a bag of M & M's over not addressing your wife's "men only want a naked smiling woman" comment. A BAG OF M&M'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:crying-blue:

:lol:

[Koala]

Bullying and exposing private information is NOT a higher standard, but a lower evil standard your group uses to try to obtain perceived accountability.

Again, in your wife's defense, please cite an instance of Lori's personal information (that she has NOT posted on a public blog or facebook) being released here. I know the mods will be anxious to remove it, as that is not tolerated here to my knowledge.

If Lori had thought I did not want the child, she would never have trued to push up the timing. Besides, shouldn't a woman have rights over her own body?

Do you acknowledge that it is deceptive to disable your birth control in order to trick your spouse into conceiving sooner than planned and thereby get your way (in Lori's case quitting her job)?

A woman absolutely has rights to her own body, but that makes what she did no less deceptive. It is morally repugnant to have physical relations with someone who is under the assumption that you are using a contraceptive device, knowing all the while that you have disabled it in an attempt to get pregnant.

Actually the one conceived through the pinhole, if that really happened, is one of the best blessings a father could ever have. He is one in a million, so maybe he did get through that pin hole and God used my unsubmissive wife to give me the best gift ever! He dos at times have that kind of sense if humor and blessings, at least fir me in my life. So many good things have come out of what others and Satan may have intended for evil. Who knows, maybe FJ will become a blessing instead of a curse in my life some day?

I don't doubt for a minute that you found great happiness in parenting that child- the terms of his conception did not impede his ability to be a wonderful person who has brought joy to your life. This does not, however, make Lori's actions acceptable or any less deceptive.

I have a friend with a daughter. Her conception was a product of rape. My friend loves that child and has found great joy in being her mother. That in no way excuses the man who raped her though does it?

That Lori was willing to deceive you in such a way is very telling of her character.

[Koala]

Talking about her posts is one thing. Her comments where she is not teaching a whole other level of scooping up some mud to throw.

1) Her comments are no more private than her blog is

2) Whether she is teaching or not is of little importance to me. If she is commenting on the world wide web, she opens herself to reply

So your argument is what? So long as it is on the Web you have no responsibility to leave it alone and ignore it?

That sounds good to me. I feel no responsibility at all to ignore your wife's public blog.

That someone you are FJ's self appointed mud finder.

Well one doesn't have to look very far when Lori so willingly puts it out there for public consumption with her full name attached.

It is below your and your values, and my guess is your embarrassment would never end if your friends and work ever found out how you spend your leisure time picking, attacking, and exposing important things like a pin prick in a diaphragm.

Let me assure you that you shouldn't presume to know my values, because they are in no way similar to yours.

So your excuse is that you found it in the park... pics of of nude movie star, and because she let the pics be taken it is your responsibility and honor to turn them in to TMZ, the FJ Forum. Wonderful ethics.

But we didn't find this information in a park somewhere, accidentally discarded by its owner. We found it on a public blog with your wife's name attached.

[Koala]

Curious, my issue is not with you, but with those who somehow believe that if information is already public, hidden in some small comment in one of 1200 posts, that it should be showed to the whole world.

Let's be very clear (again):

1) These comments were "shown to the world" the moment your wife hit "publish". The public has no obligation to ignore that.

2) I am assuming by "hidden" you mean "posted on the world wide web under my wife's name" Let me just help you here. Hidden: It doesn't mean what you think it means

[J'ean Skirt]

Go ahead and have the discussion with your husbands and ask them this question:

"What three things could I do differently or do for you that could make you feel more valued, or give you a happier or more enjoyable marriage or life within our marriage. Some of you already know the answer, but your idea of compromise is really another way of saying to your man, "Suck it up, I am not changing, or giving that to you."

I asked him. He rolled his eyes at me and said, "You're talking to the stupid online again, aren't you?"

Yup, compromise, and often women have no idea what their husband's are really thinking about them and their selfishness.

I goes both ways, so go ahead and tell him the three things that you long for him to do your or with you. top compromising and start pleasing.

There isn't anything I "long" for him to do with me. If there are things I need or want, I bring them up as they happen or when it's appropriate.

I believe my husband is an adult and brings up with me the things he needs or wants as he needs them. His reaction to my question tells me that there isn't anything I'm failing in.

[dairyfreelife]

Remember, in a Biblical marriage there is more to the story where the husband is to lovingly lead and wife to submissively follow. When impasse arrives God's vote is fir the husband to decide. He dies not always decide his way, but he always gets to make the final decision. That is much more than what you are describing.

Also, you leave out the attitude of sacrificial love and submission and respect. It is the attitude by which both spouses function that leads to significant harmony not found in most marriages. I went from major stress over my marriage to a wonderful internal peace and harmony within a few months of Lori deciding to be submissive. No more adversarial stances, but harmonious working together. If others can have that apart from submission... I have no issues with that. We are simply trying to have a Biblical marriage and sharing with others what that looks like for us.

And you still miss the point entirely. I know perfectly well what you are advocating. Love and respect are vital to harmony in marriage, but it goes both ways. Of course it's easy to not have any stress when your spouse decides you will make the decisions and they won't disagree with you even when they do, but what a shitty marriage. Many people have a happy marriage without the wife being submissive. Over and over again you keep portraying your marriage as how everyone's marriages are. Sorry but most women are not like your wife.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Here's a cute little story for you that shows how the internet is the opposite of private:

Once upon a time, as I was becoming more religious, I decided to shop for some cute but modest clothes. A woman in my area runs a store with modest clothing in her basement. I was so happy with her service and my little shopping spree that I mentioned it on an internet board for Jewish moms, and kvelled in detail over the purchases.

Time passed. One day, I was dropping my son off with a close friend. She was on the phone with her sister-in-law, mentioned that I had just walked in, and said, "she has a really strange question for you - are you [former screen name] on the internet?" Sister-in-law is the owner of that modest clothing store, and she explained to me that a new customer had mentioned that she read about the store online. Since the store didn't have a website at the time, she googled her store name, found my post, and figured out from the date and my description of the clothes that it must have been me. We had a little laugh, but it made me super-aware of what I post. After all, my friend is also close with my kids and husband, and her sister-in-law knows my mother-in-law and a good chunk of our community.

That wasn't persecution. It's how the internet works. Seek and ye shall find.

***********************************************************************************************

Here's another privacy question for you:

Once upon a time (1993 to be exact), there was a national election in my country. The leader of a fairly new party came to speak at my school. He told the nice people in the audience that the party had no more racists in it, because got rid of them all. Coincidentally, as he was saying this, I was reading an interview in the school paper with the local candidate from that party, and he was saying some pretty racist things.

Was I wrong for asking the party leader about this and reading out the quotes? Especially since it became the lead item on the evening news 12 days before the election? I mean, maybe this guy expected some privacy, right?

[kpmom]

NO NO NO! You must be a new fangled feminist.

Rule 1. Hairy armpits.

Rule 2. Smores around the bra-fire.

Rule 3.

I'm stuck :lol: I think Ken probably knows more about feminism than I do. He certainly references it enough. I just know I do not require a label to be myself, or to be conveniently dismissed by another. But hey you get arsehole feminist literalists just as often as you get biblical ones. Really anybody who bangs a drum way too hard is annoying. The nuance though is lost on Ken I suspect.

Rule 3. Work outside the home, thereby stealing jobs away from men.

Now you've got me dreaming of s'mores.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

Once upon a time, several years ago, my BIL and SIL wanted me to play an April Fools joke on my husband. They thought it would be effing hilarious if I took SIL's saved positive pregnancy test and passed it off as my own. I was stunned. No way, no how. What a horribly cruel thing to do to someone. The hubs and I both have very broad senses of humor, but this crossed the line. And yet, I don't think it's .0000000001% as bad as sabotaging birth control. Look, I'm so inspired, I used your favorite number, Ken!

Yup, compromise, and often women have no idea what their husband's are really thinking about them and their selfishness.

I'm almost starting to pity you, Ken. It's just unfathomable to you that a group of women, women you find too vile for your precious wife to converse with, would never in a million years dream of treating their life partners the way Lori has treated you. And that the husbands are not long-suffering men with the patience of saints whose masculinity is threatened because they aren't "leaders" to their wives' "help-meets." No labels, no gender roles, just partnerships with respect, communication, and harmony with or without the aide of a centuries-old, oft-translated and chopped book written by men.

[formergothardite]

I asked him. He rolled his eyes at me and said, "You're talking to the stupid online again, aren't you?"

There isn't anything I "long" for him to do with me. If there are things I need or want, I bring them up as they happen or when it's appropriate.

I believe my husband is an adult and brings up with me the things he needs or wants as he needs them. His reaction to my question tells me that there isn't anything I'm failing in.

Since my husband has been reading this thread too I didn't have to ask him. Anyway Ken, my husband thinks that your marriage sounds horrible. But the only thing he could come up with off the top of his head was something of a joke and it doesn't really bother him that much. I have this horrible habit of leaving half-empty(or full) glasses of water all over the house. I said I would try harder but did remind him that if aliens that are allergic to water show up we are going to be protected. It doesn't really bother him that much though and he knew I did this when he married me.

I can't think of three things for him either, but he does hog the covers at night. So we laughed about it and I have decided that I'll just keep a spare blanket next to the bed and toss it on if he takes all the covers.

I don't think Ken knows what compromise is. Or what a happy marriage between two equals who respect each other is. I actually feel sad for him and Lori that they struggle so much to be happy and to get along. To be married to someone for that long and still not be able to sit down and come to a decision that both agree on when it comes to big matters is just really, really sad.

[Ken]

Ok, I'll bite. Exactly what personal information (ie: not already available to the public on the internet) and where on the forum is it (provide a link) are we publishing about either you or Lori? If something has managed to slip through the cracks and it's truly private information, it will be taken care of.

Hisey published a facebook page that she has attributed to CM's wife. How does she know it is CM's wife and not some innocent victim now? Is it appropriate to splash such personal information on your Forum just because it meets your rules but cannot pass the test for common decency? It appears that CM's possible address was listed for a moment then taken down. Others threatened to "out" my business to try and harm me.

How about Koala searching through 1200 blog posts and another 400o pages of comments to come up with 2-3 pages of highly personal things that she can parade around your Forum like a cat with a dead rat in its mouth. "Look what I found buried in some back comment from a post a year ago that can help make my wife look bad. This is highly unethical behavior, yet no one in your FJ audience calls her on it and tells her to stop the bad behavior.

Yes, this is a personal blog, and my wife is willing to share many details about real life, but to cull out a few pages of perceived negatives out of 5200 pages of information WITHOUT recognizing all of the great things my wife has posted, and the lives she has helped change for the better, is horrible behavior.

Debate the facts of what my wife writes... that is fair. Debate what the Bible teaches. Debate if spanking is or is not acceptable parenting, and if submission can lead to abuse, but to purposefully try to mischaracterize little bits of personal information is unconscionable.

Now I am referring of many FJer's not just Koala and Hisey. I am someone who has lived the circumstance, has the facts about my family, and yet my truth is purposefully discounted or not believed over idle speculation.

How about setting up new rules. No need to police comments, just set a new standard so that FJ can enter the real world of debate instead of having so much gossip mongering. That is where you should take this Forum if you want to really achieve your goals. Out of the mud and mud slinging and more like me will jump on and have a healthy debate about the facts. I am learning some things, but it takes all the fortitude I have at times to jump onto your site and watch all the false accusations, profanity, and endless wrong speculation. If you are doing this about me and my family, should I not assume you are allowing this same behavior towards others?

Take a look at the post today and tell me if that really looks that much different than any normal,. healthy, and wonderful family. There are no hidden skeletons and that is why my wife can post such things, because we have nothing to hide. No abusive spankings, no abuse in our marriage, no unkindness or difficulties the last 14 years, all because she decided to follow Biblical precedent and live as a godly wife should. Is 14 years not long enough for redemption and grace for the past difficulties she may have caused. It is for me, the one harmed, why can't Koala and others separate the past of a difficult wife from a now loving, generous, gracious, submissive wife? Because you all choose not to. No grace, no understanding, only bias for a cause.

Thanks for listening...

[formergothardite]

I don't think Ken knows what the "real world of debate" looks like. He is an expert at deflecting, non-answers, and ignoring questions about things he said on this thread. If he wanted a real debate about his own words he has had plenty of opportunities to do that. But he mostly just whines a lot.

In debate, Ken if someone has mischaracterized something you said, you correct them. I did this when you implied non-religious people are selfish. Many people have corrected you when you have mischaracterized them as not respecting their husbands because they don't submit. You ignore, ignore, ignore.

If someone has falsely accused you of something, correct it. You keep making these claims but don't offer a lot of support for them.

[Ken]

You are so strange to mischaracterize all the time. I do not have a horrible marriage it is fantastic! You cannot separate out in your mind our past marriage from the last 14 years of marital bliss? Our problems with each other have gone from 20% to .001%. It is rare that we have any upset whatsoever. We finally the last 14 years have what you may have had all along in your marriage.

How many times must write that I do not care if a marriage is egalitarian or not. so long as the couple is good with how they want their marriage to be. I do not want you to change if you are happy, BUT Loeri is often dealing in the realm of unhappy marriages. It is such a cop out to say you have a great marriage and ignore the 30% of marriages that do not. Tell me, how are yo helping others have great marriages? Why don't you start a blog and help hundreds of wives each year find harmony and peace with their husbands your way? So why fault Lori for trying to help marriages after realizing that she has helped waste too many years of marriage.

If one out of three marriages encounters serious difficulties where the two spouses cannot agree, how does your marriage apply to anything if you have never experienced this? What answers do you have? Just be like me! That is so helpful in that we have no clue who you are or how you run your marriage. Put it out there and start helping others and leave alone those who are helping hundreds of marriages get back on track.

We have zero issues coming to an agreement on all issues now that we live within a Biblical marriage. My question to you and your husband is what will it look like in your marriage when you two come to an impasse. I hope it never happens, but life has its twists and turns. Also, personality plays a large role in arguing. Lori and I are both Director styles of personality who like to be right. You married a gem, that is great. Some of us just married the one we fell in love with and now choose to love all of our lives. It is not so bad being married to a spark plug, actually kind of exciting at times. There is good and bad in every person, so you don't just throw them out and start over is exactly what Lori is teaching. You love them to a point of harmony and a deep connection.

[Curious]

Curious, my issue is not with you, but with those who somehow believe that if information is already public, hidden in some small comment in one of 1200 posts, that it should be showed to the whole world. That facebook pages should be made available to all to see because one somehow found them.

You were outed, and how did that feel. How threatening is it for you as Owner of this inflammatory Forum to know that some crazy can get on here on either side of the issues and then violate all your stated rules and go after you or me, or others. Is this not what everyone is fighting against with my wife;s blog? Fear that somehow someone will misunderstand or stretch the message and go wacko and abuse.

There is no excusing some of the behavior of your friends here, nor of your continuing to perpetuate profanity associated with my wife on a Google search. It is inexcusable and wrong. Two wrings do not make a right, but if someone decides to sue the pants off of you as Owner of this mess, I can't say that I would blame them based on the defamation of character I and my wife have suffered with the mischaracterizations and false accusations.

I am not Satan in disguise, I do not beat my wife to make her write what she writes and my wife is no monster. Defamation... just packaged in a way that will probably allow your Forum and your friends to get away with the unethical and immoral treatment. I can handle all other other stiff thrown at me, but are allow tolerance for the false defamation and nastiness which this Forum seems to thrive upon.

I do appreciate your allowing me to participate as I have come realize that not all are of the same low character as others and are truly here for discussion purposes, not just to silence all who they disagree with.

Ken, you may not like it, but people calling Lori a monster is their OPINION and they are allowed to have it. She espouses beliefs, in public on the internet, that people find abhorrent. That is going to make some people have a very strong reaction. During the "outing" people posted worse things about me and several others here. They weren't true, so while I was annoyed (mostly because at least some of the people involved had supposedly been my friends and were posting things they *knew* were not true and also giving out personal, private information that they knew should not be told to other people because it was told to them in confidence, not posted in public on the net), I pretty much just let if roll off my back.

Had someone crazy shown up at my door, I would have taken legal action with the mountains of proof because fortunately the state I live in is quite progressive when it comes to cyber-harassment. Their goal was not to do anything, but get me to shut down FJ because they weren't getting their way, though. As you can see, it didn't work. It just made me think a lot less of people that I used to care about and respect.

If something is posted on the internet, whether it's posted in a main blog post or comment or a forum or wherever else it might be, if it's PUBLIC, then it is fair game. During the outing, I had posts I made on a newsgroup about 12 or so years ago come up in a search. I'd completely forgotten about them until I read them again. I wouldn't have been surprised if they had been brought up during the "outing." They weren't very exciting since it was a newsgroup for a game, but they are still out there knocking around and certainly aren't associated with anything I'm doing now. That's just how the internet rolls. I don't use my real name everywhere anymore because I wised up ;)

That being said, my friends and family know about FJ and they are still friends and family so I guess they are ok with it. I'm not sure it's the deep, dark secret for many of us that you imagine it to be. It's pretty much internet safety 101, not to post under your real name on the net and if you do, you have to be prepared for the consequences of doing that.

BTW, many people here know each other's real identities. Many friendships have been formed here. We may be anonymous to you and the internet at large, but we are not all completely anonymous to each other.

[Ken]

I don't think Ken knows what the "real world of debate" looks like. He is an expert at deflecting, non-answers, and ignoring questions about things he said on this thread. If he wanted a real debate about his own words he has had plenty of opportunities to do that. But he mostly just whines a lot.

In debate, Ken if someone has mischaracterized something you said, you correct them. I did this when you implied non-religious people are selfish. Many people have corrected you when you have mischaracterized them as not respecting their husbands because they don't submit. You ignore, ignore, ignore.

If someone has falsely accused you of something, correct it. You keep making these claims but don't offer a lot of support for them.

WOW... I have non stop shown you mischaracterizations and inflammatory speculations. That is about all I do here. I made the list once a while back, must I do it again?

All of your concept of what we teach on submission was mischaracterized. Like I was some dominating difficult person bullying my wife.

The diaphragm story is a perfect example. Writing as if this was a choice between having a child or not having a child, instead of recognizing that it was about the timing of having the child.

Even after I say clearly that marriage rape is immoral I and said to believe in marriage rape.

The list is endless. Where have you been? I just may go through just your comments and show how many times you have put words in my mouth, made accusations and have been unwilling to accept what I say at faith value as the truth. Maybe I am confusing you with salex or others, but maybe I can waste some time proving this to you again.

Just the recent comment by you implying I have a horrible marriage, when you know full well that I had a DIFFICULT not horrible marriage for 20 years, and you know that it is now considered by Lori and me to be a terrific marriage. Yet you want to paint it as "horrible?"

WOW... come back to the world of reality and see clearly for just a minute or two.

Need to work...

[formergothardite]

I'm sorry I implied you have a bad marriage. It seems that way from my perspective of reading you and Lori's blog. If you and Lori are happy with how it is set up then good for you.

If you have actually read my posts you will find that I have said that I have no problem with women who choose submission. You will find that I have said that I am sure there are many women who have benefitted from Lori's advice. You will find that I have said that I am pretty sure that Lori was very difficult during those years. You will find that I explained why the diaphragm story sounded so bad to the rest of us because for many marriages that level of deceit would destroy all trust and it is a surprise to the rest of us that it is treated so lightly. You will find that I asked if you were a liar or a coward in regards to marital rape because you have not addressed it in the comment section of one of Lori's most recent posts when someone implied that a husband can't rape his wife. The only reasons I can think that both you and Lori have refused to stand up for morality and respond to that comment with a straight "Yes a man can rape his wife and yes it is immoral." is if you are lying here or afraid to say that because of the backlash will be so strong over there. Rape is a pretty damn big deal. You should be ashamed of treating it so casually. But if you have another reason that both you and Lori have ignored it and haven't said it is wrong, then feel free to correct me.

I will take all you say about your marriage at face value. BUT you must be willing to extend the same courtesy to me. You have implied that I am lying and exaggerating when it comes to the abuse that I have seen in submissive marriages. You have refused to accept at face value that I am speaking the truth, that there are many, many marriages where submissive has destroyed the wives. You give the vague "I'll need to research this" which is just another way of saying "I don't believe you and I'm going to ignore any stories you share." So if you are willing to do this for me, then I would be more than willing to do it for you.

[Curious]

By the way Ken, you lost me a bag of M & M's over not addressing your wife's "men only want a naked smiling woman" comment. A BAG OF M&M'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:crying-blue:

:lol:

I hope they weren't the mint kind because that would be quite serious in my household!

[formergothardite]

You are so strange to mischaracterize all the time. I do not have a horrible marriage it is fantastic! You cannot separate out in your mind our past marriage from the last 14 years of marital bliss? Our problems with each other have gone from 20% to .001%. It is rare that we have any upset whatsoever. We finally the last 14 years have what you may have had all along in your marriage.

How many times must write that I do not care if a marriage is egalitarian or not. so long as the couple is good with how they want their marriage to be. I do not want you to change if you are happy, BUT Loeri is often dealing in the realm of unhappy marriages. It is such a cop out to say you have a great marriage and ignore the 30% of marriages that do not. Tell me, how are yo helping others have great marriages? Why don't you start a blog and help hundreds of wives each year find harmony and peace with their husbands your way? So why fault Lori for trying to help marriages after realizing that she has helped waste too many years of marriage.

If one out of three marriages encounters serious difficulties where the two spouses cannot agree, how does your marriage apply to anything if you have never experienced this?

If you had actually read my posts in the past you would have discovered that my husband and I have separated in the past. You would have also have discovered that submission would not have helped in my situation and what saved my marriage was for me to stand up to him and take control over my life. It also saved him from a downward spiral that would have messed his life up big time. Having read Lori's blog I am 100% sure she would have told me to submit and would have blamed me for his behavior when that was far from the truth.

What answers do you have? Just be like me!

There is no magic one answer to all marriage problems. There is no magic pill that can fix everything. I wouldn't dare tell people to be like me or give out blanket advice. These people need to seek trained marriage therapists who can hear both points of view, is trained in spotting abusive behavior, and is much better qualified to give advice than any untrained person on the internet.

That is so helpful in that we have no clue who you are or how you run your marriage. Put it out there and start helping others and leave alone those who are helping hundreds of marriages get back on track.

Like I said, for the safety of our children we do not give out our personal info on the internet. There are lots of people who are way scarier than Free Jinger reading. But I am hardly qualified to help people save their marriages. That is a ministry best left to the professionals and for real life where the counselor can have a better grasp of the situation.

We have zero issues coming to an agreement on all issues now that we live within a Biblical marriage. My question to you and your husband is what will it look like in your marriage when you two come to an impasse.

There have been several situations where he has wanted one thing and I have wanted the other and we couldn't compromise. The power was not given to the penis, it was given to the person who was best qualified to make the decision. And since we are adults we could deal with understanding that.

I hope it never happens, but life has its twists and turns. Also, personality plays a large role in arguing. Lori and I are both Director styles of personality who like to be right.

You married a gem, that is great.

Yes I did. People who are married to assholes who abuse them, and who aren't going to be won over by submission, are they just supposed to suffer?

Some of us just married the one we fell in love with and now choose to love all of our lives. It is not so bad being married to a spark plug, actually kind of exciting at times. There is good and bad in every person, so you don't just throw them out and start over is exactly what Lori is teaching. You love them to a point of harmony and a deep connection.

There is good and bad in everyone, but there are times in which the bad is just too much and the good is just too little. There are people who can't be loved into harmony. A woman shouldn't be shamed into suffering misery and abuse or made to feel like it is her fault when submission doesn't work.

[salex]

Hisey published a facebook page that she has attributed to CM's wife. How does she know it is CM's wife and not some innocent victim now? Is it appropriate to splash such personal information on your Forum just because it meets your rules but cannot pass the test for common decency? It appears that CM's possible address was listed for a moment then taken down. Others threatened to "out" my business to try and harm me.

Was the facebook page public or private? If people who are not friends can read it easily, it is public.

How about Koala searching through 1200 blog posts and another 400o pages of comments to come up with 2-3 pages of highly personal things that she can parade around your Forum like a cat with a dead rat in its mouth. "Look what I found buried in some back comment from a post a year ago that can help make my wife look bad. This is highly unethical behavior, yet no one in your FJ audience calls her on it and tells her to stop the bad behavior.

Why is using Lori's search function unethical? Has Lori (or you) changed her opinions since posting whatever comments people quote here? Is this a public blog? Is she or are you ashamed of things she has said on her blog or in her comments? IF so, why?

Yes, this is a personal blog, and my wife is willing to share many details about real life, but to cull out a few pages of perceived negatives out of 5200 pages of information WITHOUT recognizing all of the great things my wife has posted, and the lives she has helped change for the better, is horrible behavior.

Debate the facts of what my wife writes... that is fair. Debate what the Bible teaches. Debate if spanking is or is not acceptable parenting, and if submission can lead to abuse, but to purposefully try to mischaracterize little bits of personal information is unconscionable.

Now I am referring of many FJer's not just Koala and Hisey. I am someone who has lived the circumstance, has the facts about my family, and yet my truth is purposefully discounted or not believed over idle speculation.

Your truth often does not jibe with what Lori has written in those 1200 blog posts and countless comments--not our fault.

How about setting up new rules. No need to police comments, just set a new standard so that FJ can enter the real world of debate instead of having so much gossip mongering. That is where you should take this Forum if you want to really achieve your goals.

Dude, my goals on the internet are 60% entertainment (and do you have a tip jar, 'cause here's a buck for you for your contribution to my entertainment). I come to FJ because the because I was bummed that one of my inlaws turned out to be a closet dominionist and his daughter is teaching faux curriculum from A Becca and Bob Jones, and believes her father's political career is his calling from God. (I believe any politician who believes s/he is on a mission from god is too dangerous to elect) FJ had some threads about groups I was interested in, and I joined. So, I get entertainment, introduced to bizarro blogs and groups I've never heard of, and hit a few threads.

Out of the mud and mud slinging and more like me will jump on and have a healthy debate about the facts.

You pretty much avoid the facts. Your stats are clearly made up as you go along. (.000000000001, indeed) IN the serious debate sites I've seen, you would be eaten alive--but we are a discussion group, in general, not a serious debate site... we disagree (I was taken to task for something I wrote a couple of weeks ago-- thanks for coming in and diverting attention)

I am learning some things, but it takes all the fortitude I have at times to jump onto your site and watch all the false accusations, profanity, and endless wrong speculation.

So what are you getting out of it?

If you are doing this about me and my family, should I not assume you are allowing this same behavior towards others? You have access to all the other threads.. easy to see what is said about others, if you care.

Take a look at the post today and tell me if that really looks that much different than any normal,. healthy, and wonderful family. People commented last time there was a wedding post how pretty the dress was....

There are no hidden skeletons and that is why my wife can post such things, because we have nothing to hide. Not with Lori dragging any potentially hidden skeletons out to the light on her blog, that's for sure.

No abusive spankings, (Since the kids are grown) no abuse in our marriage, (once she surrendered and shut up about things to your face) no unkindness or difficulties the last 14 years (Just the rather constant rehashing of the lousey years) , all because she decided to follow Biblical precedent and live as a godly wife should.(And what prompted that, if it wasn't your What will we do once the kids are gone/come to jesus comment?) Is 14 years not long enough for redemption and grace for the past difficulties she may have caused .

Wow.... It might be if she didn't drag up the past day after day-- and if you didn't make nasty little comments implying (again) that it was all her fault, despite some of your earlier comments about how you were not always as availble, etc as you should/could have been. You and she snark on one another at least as much as any individual in here snarks on the two of you...

It is for me, the one harmed, (See my previous comment-- victimhood is always a keystone of leadership, I guess.... )

why can't Koala and others separate the past of a difficult wife from a now loving, generous, gracious, submissive wife? Because you all choose not to. No grace, no understanding, only bias for a cause.

Thanks for listening...

You are quite welcome. I suspect if Lori quits bringing up the past so frequently, most others will too. Then we can concentrate on the simplistic marriage formula she and you think is one size fits all-- which more or less defined bias for a cause... though it is different, right, since you and Lori speak for God?

[Koala]

How about Koala searching through 1200 blog posts and another 400o pages of comments to come up with 2-3 pages of highly personal things that she can parade around your Forum like a cat with a dead rat in its mouth. "Look what I found buried in some back comment from a post a year ago that can help make my wife look bad. This is highly unethical behavior, yet no one in your FJ audience calls her on it and tells her to stop the bad behavior.

Yes, this is a personal blog, and my wife is willing to share many details about real life, but to cull out a few pages of perceived negatives out of 5200 pages of information WITHOUT recognizing all of the great things my wife has posted, and the lives she has helped change for the better, is horrible behavior.

Perhaps you have confused "personal blog" with "private blog". A private blog would be one that I could not access without an invitation, thereby making the numerous "highly personal things" Lori has written about semi-private. Once someone has posted on the world wide web, however, one has to question just how "highly personal" the information really was in the first place.

The reason Lori doesn't post your banking information on her blog is because she knows it would be compromised. She knows on some level that there's nothing private about her blog, comments, or facebook. Her "funny story" about disabling her birth control works much the same way. Once she hit "publish", anyone with internet access could read it. She's should be very careful what she puts out there if she feels that it will make her look poorly. I have been very careful to quote her directly because I feel that that's fair.

I think your real issue is that I am quoting Lori verbatim and it's making both her and you look bad. Lori's delete finger doesn't extend to FJ, so you are unable to control what is said about her comments.

Now, in your previous post you suggested that Lori wasn't aware that there were people who would read her public content and "make mountains out of mole hills". I have posted 2 blog posts where she acknowledges us or groups like us (and could find more if you'd like me to). Would you like to retract your original statement now, since your wife has directly contradicted you?

How about setting up new rules. No need to police comments, just set a new standard so that FJ can enter the real world of debate instead of having so much gossip mongering.

You realize that this is a snark board and that you don't get to waltz in here and announce it's time for a rule change, right? Your sense of power has been way over inflated as evidenced by this comment.

Take a look at the post today and tell me if that really looks that much different than any normal,. healthy, and wonderful family.

Yes, but what kind of fool really thinks they can tell that much about a family by looking at a wedding picture? I mean seriously, who thinks that way? Do you really believe that a wedding picture could override the direct quotes we have from you and your wife? Really?

[Koala]

The diaphragm story is a perfect example. Writing as if this was a choice between having a child or not having a child, instead of recognizing that it was about the timing of having the child.

No one has insinuated any such thing. I have simply taken issue with the fact that your wife admittedly deceived you (led you to believe she was using a contraceptive device) when in fact she had disabled it in order to get pregnant and quit her job.

If you take issue with these words, then give your wife a call, because she is the one who wrote them.

Just the recent comment by you implying I have a horrible marriage, when you know full well that I had a DIFFICULT not horrible marriage for 20 years

That is the nature of an opinion Ken. What you see as wonderful, we may see as horrible. On the subject of opinions, I believe your wife's was that it was "lousy".

Need to work...

By all means...don't let us stop you

[formergothardite]

I hope they weren't the mint kind because that would be quite serious in my household!

I am not a fan of the mint kind. I do like the peanut kind, though. I will clarify that it was a small bag, but still, a bag of m&m's is a bag of m&m's. :lol:

[salex]

The diaphragm story is a perfect example. Writing as if this was a choice between having a child or not having a child, instead of recognizing that it was about the timing of having the child.

Actually, I think her use of it as showing a way manipulation can get a woman what she wants was offensive. My husband was a appalled as I was, however-- and nothing you can say can make her actions less offensive, much less her sly implication that it was wrong but that it worked... women getting knocked up to force a marriage or some other thing is offensive-- and her reporting it and telling about it was offensive, especially since you have a child from it. That said, You clearly love your child, planned, unscheduled or not. And you are doing more or less what my husband and I always said we would do if we had an unplanned pregnancy-- no matter how poor the timing or unplanned the pregnancy might have been, we agreed we'd never have told anyone--ever, for real or in jest-- that it was unplanned. No child ever needs to hear his parents suggest even in jest that s/he was not wanted.

Even after I say clearly that marriage rape is immoral I and said to believe in marriage rape.

I think the questions on marital rape (mine certainly) were more about your apparent and stated support for SSM's comments good CHristian advice/writing despite her post on marital rape, diminishing those commetns as if they were referring to false rape claims by mean wives as opposed to her saying that no married woman has the right to say no to her husband sexually and he has every right to "take what is his." YOu kept declining to read it for yourself so that you could postpone answering. I understand, unlike Lori, you can't convince SSM to change her blog, but you are also not as affiliated with it (Do you comment there? I believe lori and ssm are Blogger Friends, so that may be part of your reticence... don't want to step on Lori's toes, etc) It came across as dissembling. I doubt most people here believe you are pro rape, but you don't take a stand against it when one of lOri's online buds comes out for it. Let's say at best you come across as lukewarm...

[Curious]

Hisey published a facebook page that she has attributed to CM's wife. How does she know it is CM's wife and not some innocent victim now? Is it appropriate to splash such personal information on your Forum just because it meets your rules but cannot pass the test for common decency? It appears that CM's possible address was listed for a moment then taken down. Others threatened to "out" my business to try and harm me.

I'm having a tolerant day so I'll play along for a little while. I asked specifically where information that was private about you or Lori was posted on the forum. Since you have written a wall o' text and not provided me with the requested link(s), I'm going to take that as "there is no private information about Lori or myself currently published on FJ" and I'm going to ask you to stop saying that we are publishing your private information at this point.

I have given you the opportunity to provide me with the incidence(s) of said information and said I would remove it. Since you have not done so, continuing to say we are doing something we are not doing, which we carefully police and is against our rules and ToU, is going to become a problem. I've been pretty tolerant of your hyperbole so far, but this is an issue where my tolerance will fade rapidly.

The facebook page Hisey posted was a public page. I took a look at it and it's pretty well locked down and doesn't have a full name on it. I believe she said she figured it out based on information from Lori's blog. If people can put 2 and 2 together based on information posted publicly, they can post it. It doesn't look like it went anywhere, however. If things change in that regard, we will revisit it. I don't have any indication that CM's business address (which would have been found via public information) was posted on the site. It looks like a question about posting it was asked and then deleted. In other words, members self-moderated and didn't post it. Several other members posted and said that it shouldn't be posted after that. I'm not keeping up on the whole CM thing, to be honest, but if he has a blog that is open to the public, then it would be fair game if someone did decide to post it.

The fact that ONE person suggested to name your business (there was no threat of harm, to my knowledge) on the forum, which was quickly and soundly shot down by members and was never actually posted, does not count as posting personal information. People can talk about doing something without actually doing it. You talk about us posting anonymously and hypothesize about how our friends and family would feel if they found out about us participating on FJ, but I think you are projecting a little bit. If you are, as you say you are, such a great guy and everyone you work with loves you and what not, why would posting your business name on a forum freak you out so much. It's free advertising!

How about Koala searching through 1200 blog posts and another 400o pages of comments to come up with 2-3 pages of highly personal things that she can parade around your Forum like a cat with a dead rat in its mouth. "Look what I found buried in some back comment from a post a year ago that can help make my wife look bad. This is highly unethical behavior, yet no one in your FJ audience calls her on it and tells her to stop the bad behavior.

Yes, this is a personal blog, and my wife is willing to share many details about real life, but to cull out a few pages of perceived negatives out of 5200 pages of information WITHOUT recognizing all of the great things my wife has posted, and the lives she has helped change for the better, is horrible behavior.

Debate the facts of what my wife writes... that is fair. Debate what the Bible teaches. Debate if spanking is or is not acceptable parenting, and if submission can lead to abuse, but to purposefully try to mischaracterize little bits of personal information is unconscionable.

Ken, this is an honest question and I'm not being snarky at all. Do you understand how the internet works at all? Do you understand about search engines and crawlers?

I just did a quick search for Lori Alexander "spank harder" and the second link that came up was this link: tolovehonorandvacuum.com/2013/11/weekend-links-winners-cool-stuff/ Lori posted a few times in the comments on this blog post. It took me less than 5 minutes to find those comments on another person's blog. That is how the internet works. I said in another post today that I found comments I made 12+ years ago in a newsgroup. When you post on the internet (in public space), you have to expect that people are going to read it and comment on it. It's the way the internet works. It's kind of the whole point of the internet.

You don't get to say whatever you want all over the place and deem some of it off limits because it's not on your main blog. That is not how things work. If you post it in a public space it will, most likely, be crawled and available for searching. If you and Lori were not aware of that, I really think that you both need to take some time and learn how the internet actually works. No one should be blogging without a full understanding of this kind of stuff, for their own safety. I'm not being snarky here. You can't be on the internet in 2014 and not understand how it works and be safe.

Now I am referring of many FJer's not just Koala and Hisey. I am someone who has lived the circumstance, has the facts about my family, and yet my truth is purposefully discounted or not believed over idle speculation.

How about setting up new rules. No need to police comments, just set a new standard so that FJ can enter the real world of debate instead of having so much gossip mongering. That is where you should take this Forum if you want to really achieve your goals. Out of the mud and mud slinging and more like me will jump on and have a healthy debate about the facts. I am learning some things, but it takes all the fortitude I have at times to jump onto your site and watch all the false accusations, profanity, and endless wrong speculation. If you are doing this about me and my family, should I not assume you are allowing this same behavior towards others?

Take a look at the post today and tell me if that really looks that much different than any normal,. healthy, and wonderful family. There are no hidden skeletons and that is why my wife can post such things, because we have nothing to hide. No abusive spankings, no abuse in our marriage, no unkindness or difficulties the last 14 years, all because she decided to follow Biblical precedent and live as a godly wife should. Is 14 years not long enough for redemption and grace for the past difficulties she may have caused. It is for me, the one harmed, why can't Koala and others separate the past of a difficult wife from a now loving, generous, gracious, submissive wife? Because you all choose not to. No grace, no understanding, only bias for a cause.

Thanks for listening...

Well first, we are not changing any rules. We don't have many and the ones we do have are mostly common sense or made because some situation happened that we had to address. Second, we are, first and foremost a SNARK forum. While we address serious topics, we do so from a place of snark.

Snark is defined as:

Abusive and sarcastic speech or writing--a form of invective.

Depending on the speaker, subject, and audience, snark may be perceived as either witty or asinine, sophisticated or sophomoric.

The Social Function of Snark

"Snark is not the same as hate speech, which is abuse directed at groups. Hate speech slashes and burns, and hopes to incite, but without much attempt at humor. . . .

"Snark attacks individuals, not groups, though it may appeal to a group mentality, depositing a little bit more toxin into already poisoned waters. Snark is a teasing, rug-pulling form of insult that attempts to steal someone's mojo, erase her cool, annihilate her effectiveness, and it appeals to a knowing audience that shares the contempt of the snarker and therefore understands whatever references he makes. . . .

"Snark often functions as an enforcer of mediocrity and conformity. In its cozy knowingness, snark flatters you by assuming that you get the contemptuous joke. You've been admitted, or readmitted, to a club, though it may be the club of the second-rate."

(David Denby, Snark: A Polemic in Seven Fits. Simon & Schuster, 2009)

http://grammar.about.com/od/rs/g/Snark.htm

I get that you don't like what is being said about Lori and yourself here and you feel like it's an unfair characterization, but frankly, you aren't doing a whole lot of help yourself much of the time. You say one thing and when confronted with evidence to the contrary you either deflect or fall back into the hyperbole that (basically) we are big meanies. That isn't how "real world debate" works.

Some of the stuff Lori did makes her a really, really bad example for women and makes women in general look bad. The way she talks about those things, like they were funny or don't matter anymore, don't help your cause. The fact that you can't understand that sort of baffles me. You seem to think all women are like her (I probably can't blame you for that because I'm sure living with her has not been a treat) and all marriages are like yours, despite a number of people telling you that is not the case. You want us to listen to you, but you don't want to listen to us. It's a two way street.

I'm curious about the part I bolded above. It looks like you are blaming Lori for all your marriage problems at first, but on second read, I wonder if you are just talking about the disabling of the contraceptive device. Could you please clarify that for me?

[OkToBeTakei]

Hisey published a facebook page that she has attributed to CM's wife. How does she know it is CM's wife and not some innocent victim now? Is it appropriate to splash such personal information on your Forum just because it meets your rules but cannot pass the test for common decency? It appears that CM's possible address was listed for a moment then taken down. Others threatened to "out" my business to try and harm me.

How about Koala searching through 1200 blog posts and another 400o pages of comments to come up with 2-3 pages of highly personal things that she can parade around your Forum like a cat with a dead rat in its mouth. "Look what I found buried in some back comment from a post a year ago that can help make my wife look bad. This is highly unethical behavior, yet no one in your FJ audience calls her on it and tells her to stop the bad behavior.

Yes, this is a personal blog, and my wife is willing to share many details about real life, but to cull out a few pages of perceived negatives out of 5200 pages of information WITHOUT recognizing all of the great things my wife has posted, and the lives she has helped change for the better, is horrible behavior.

Debate the facts of what my wife writes... that is fair. Debate what the Bible teaches. Debate if spanking is or is not acceptable parenting, and if submission can lead to abuse, but to purposefully try to mischaracterize little bits of personal information is unconscionable.

Now I am referring of many FJer's not just Koala and Hisey. I am someone who has lived the circumstance, has the facts about my family, and yet my truth is purposefully discounted or not believed over idle speculation.

How about setting up new rules. No need to police comments, just set a new standard so that FJ can enter the real world of debate instead of having so much gossip mongering. That is where you should take this Forum if you want to really achieve your goals. Out of the mud and mud slinging and more like me will jump on and have a healthy debate about the facts. I am learning some things, but it takes all the fortitude I have at times to jump onto your site and watch all the false accusations, profanity, and endless wrong speculation. If you are doing this about me and my family, should I not assume you are allowing this same behavior towards others?

Take a look at the post today and tell me if that really looks that much different than any normal,. healthy, and wonderful family. There are no hidden skeletons and that is why my wife can post such things, because we have nothing to hide. No abusive spankings, no abuse in our marriage, no unkindness or difficulties the last 14 years, all because she decided to follow Biblical precedent and live as a godly wife should. Is 14 years not long enough for redemption and grace for the past difficulties she may have caused. It is for me, the one harmed, why can't Koala and others separate the past of a difficult wife from a now loving, generous, gracious, submissive wife? Because you all choose not to. No grace, no understanding, only bias for a cause.

Thanks for listening...

This above all posts you have written has got to be the most ridiculous yet. You are joking right?

Just because you don't like to see others repeat the words your wife wrote it is unethical? No ..you just don't like it. NOT the same thing.

If your wife's blog was personal not everybody would be able to read it.

YOUR account is explaining away or not as the case may be your wife's words. Is it ok for a husband to rape a wife? Funny. You have shed no light on that speculation from the blog.

OH I'm sorry we are only supposed to pick out the good things she writes and praise her for them?

You wish FJ to set up new rules because your fee fees have been hurt. The real world of debate is something you would not recognise if it came up and hit you in the face. What you appear to think is debate is you being right and everybody else agreeing.

I have no interest in your 14 years of good marriage or your however many years of bad marriage. I would have no knowledge of either if your wife's blog was not public.

You have done more mudslinging than most here. When nobody agrees you throw around veiled little offensive remarks and mischaracterisations about posters here, because Ken. Just as you claim nobody here knows the REAL Lori or the REAL you and yet we base our opinions on what you write is PRECISELY what you do when they write things you dislike. It is ok for you but not for them.

I don't agree with posting Facebook links. It is public I believe I did not click. Not interested. It was though one poster you are talking about. It was also one poster who mentioned you workplace. One. Again, stop with all the melodrama.

It is almost pathetic the lengths you appear to go to and quite desperate to post a family wedding to 'prove' to whom? Yourself? Your readers? What a perfectly normal family you have. It smacks of desperation.

You have not answered the reason you continue to post. You still avoid answering questions which would clear up some of the speculative mischaracterisation you are fond of claiming. You still appear to lack the basic knowledge of how the internet works and it now just looks like because you don't like it you are unwilling to listen to anybodies explanation. If it takes SUCH fortitude for you to see your own life commented on by others then do something about. Expecting others to not have an opinion when you are trying to publicise your blog as some kind of 'ministry' a counselling service. Anybody who provides a service gets feedback. You know amazon ..stars? Why should you be any different?

FJ has no goals that I'm aware of. Speculation and opinion about any public writings, people or events is a past time centuries old Ken. You call it gossip as it again fits your neat little all the wimminz gossip. The fact you know TMZ and I had to look it up appears to suggest you know more about this than I do.

Koala really gets to you huh? :lol: How strange that comes across so clearly. Even funnier when what you are whinging about is the fact that it is YOUR wife's words she quotes. Sometimes she adds her own opinion of them which she is entitled to do and sometimes she asks your thoughts or for an explanation, which you never give. You just instead call her 'a cat with a dead rat in her mouth.' KEN! You old charmer you :lol:

Basically just as you cherry pick parts of the bible to forward your own self importance you want people to cherry pick only the positive parts of Lori's blog. you are delusional. Seriously delusional. I still think you are running scared. The fact you alluded to how could you get FJ from examining/ commenting on Lori's blog a few pages back is testimony to that. Basically you can't. End of story. Except your little sojourn here has probably ignited and made many more aware of it and even more inclined to look more closely at some of the controversial aspects of it. Way to go. Your manly posturing has served only to fan the flames. I had never even looked at it prior to you trying to defend it. It was just the blog others go on about with the woman who talks about her sex life a lot and tells women to smack their kids.

I googled Ken Alexander marriage submission. It took me straight to FJ. The only person you have to blame for that Ken is your wife, yourself and your very public blog. You can posture and blame everybody else all you want the fact remains you need to own your own words on the world wide web. If it taxes your fortitude so much and appears to take up SO much of your time. Call it a day and say lesson learned. Hitting out and trying to attribute blame is only going to stretch your already delicate fortitude further. Posting happy clappy pictures of a family wedding no matter how lovely they are just makes you seem quite machiavellian and manipulative.

I would like to point out something that appears to have escaped everybody. WHEN did it become normal to discuss your 'diaphragm' in public? Never mind poking a hole in it? Some things you know, should never be discussed in polite society :lol: I find it hilarious your whole existence, marriage is allegedly based on biblical teaching yet you or should I say Lori discussed this so nonchalantly on her public blog. Whilst I certainly have no interest in your biblical interpretations I REALLY REALLY do not want to know about Lori's vagina hat story. Some things can never be forgotten :cry:

You go to such great lengths to say what a fantastic marriage you now have. It just seems to totally escape you that most here have never gone through the difficult bit to get to the blissful bit using the method you describe. Time and again posters have shared their happy relationship stories. Not once, not ONCE have you asked or acknowledged that most do this without the help of submission or the bible. Yet nobody is allowed to question why you had to find a way to make yours work and if they do they are mischaracterising or making inflammatory statements. No. Not all the time. Some are just trying to figure it out. Your problem is that you just can't accept extremely happy unions occur without your method. It's sad. You are very narrow minded.