Lori - V-Day Causes Divorce - Now With Moar Ken! Part 2

[Ken]

Ken,like many others I just can't figure out what exactly you are doing here. .

I am not sure exactly, but I recall I read some posts about me being Satan, controlling my wife, making her write all these things, and a myriad of other speculative lies. I believe many of the lies are cleared up now, so I may be moving on soon.

No, nothing has changed with Lori's personality with her illness. You have some more wild guesses and speculations going on. I do think that she has moved further to the fundie camp, pushed somewhat by the derogatory comments that some try to post on her blog. The more nasty women become she may equate this with how they treat their husbands. No more lady like behavior, and this site is a prime example of the radial change in women in the last 50 years. Hence her desire to try and get women back to a point of submission and decency.

[Ken]

How on earth do you know what you're endorsing if you haven't read the book? There may be something in the book that you disagree with and don't even know it.

I watch the proof of the book each day and it is the best book I never read.

[Ken]

I appreciate that and your returning the wallets. The point is that one does no have to drag out every little detail of a person's blog and comments in order to state clearly that they disagree with them. What is the purpose?

I guess the only redeeming aspect to such searches is that many hear get to spend hours reading the some great insights into life and marriage from a Biblical perspective.

Maybe that is the purpose in all of this?

Out for a while... and my best to all of you, including Koala and salex, and really all of you. I think I am discovering that you are not that bad of people as compared to your hard words. You must admit for a man to come in here and try to keep up with you all, that takes some guts. So at least give me that.

Have fun with your snarking and try to be a little responsible with your speculations and words. Please do not hate us as we are good people just making our way through life as best we know how.

[Curious]

Yes, but words also have limitations in explaining context. There is often much more to a story than what the works in a brief sentence can convey. I have shown many mischaracterizations and speculations precisely because the reader chooses to use their bias to interpret the words without knowing the full story and context.

Regardless, it is almost like a soap opera on this site looking for mud and gossip material instead of dealing with the real issues... the disagreement with what God says in His Word, maybe jealousy, maybe taking out on others some real pain in one;s life? I see jealousy as a major factor in most rifts in relationships in the workplace. If I can't have it, let me try to destroy it, or at least make fun of it.

Then it is incumbent on the writer to make sure the meaning is clear. I'm not a stellar writer so I am verbose. I cover all my bases though, so there can be no (or hopefully no) misunderstanding in what I am saying. I don't think some words you use mean what you think they do. I know you are used to "debating" with people that are mostly like minded, so you rarely have to actually defend your beliefs, ideas, etc and that shows. However, just because you say we are mischaracterizing something or taking it out of context, doesn't mean we are. There would also be no speculation if this stuff wasn't on the internet in the first place.

You use your biases to interpret our words as well.

The fact that you just pulled out the "jellus" card has just used the last bit of fortitude I had. I can only bang my head against a wall for so long before I just have to call it a day. I encourage you to participate (or at least read) other threads on the forum than this one so that you can find out what other folks in your (semi) circle of christianity are up to.

[Curious]

The post came up in my search because Lori posts under her real name and the Pearl's apparently use the phrase "spank harder" in their book TTUAC, which the author of the post is talking about and uses that exact phrase when responding (ironically since I didn't read the entire thread) to YOU in the comment Ken. It's still relevant because both you and Lori are defending the Pearl's and TTUAC in your comments on that post.

I've addressed my feelings regarding the google bombing in a post already on this thread (or maybe part one). If you can't be bothered to read the posts I write the first time, I'm not going to repeat myself.

You have answered (indirectly) whether you understand about the internet and crawlers and the answer is no, so thank you for that.

[samurai_sarah]

(snip)

Out for a while... and my best to all of you, including Koala and salex, and really all of you. I think I am discovering that you are not that bad of people as compared to your hard words. You must admit for a man to come in here and try to keep up with you all, that takes some guts. So at least give me that.

No.

Have fun with your snarking and try to be a little responsible with your speculations and words. Please do not hate us as we are good people just making our way through life as best we know how.

"Teacher" Lori is welcome to lead by example, since she's the one who hands out the reckless advice.

[lipstickgoalie]

I am not sure exactly, but I recall I read some posts about me being Satan, controlling my wife, making her write all these things, and a myriad of other speculative lies. I believe many of the lies are cleared up now, so I may be moving on soon.

No, nothing has changed with Lori's personality with her illness. You have some more wild guesses and speculations going on. I do think that she has moved further to the fundie camp, pushed somewhat by the derogatory comments that some try to post on her blog. The more nasty women become she may equate this with how they treat their husbands. No more lady like behavior, and this site is a prime example of the radial change in women in the last 50 years. Hence her desire to try and get women back to a point of submission and decency.

Ken, I don't think it was a wild guess, speculation maybe. But also some personal experience. Traumatic Brain Injuries, even minor ones have an accompanying change in personality more often than they do not. That is another fun gift my husband picked up in Afghanistan. So called "chemo brain" is also a thing. Three close friends who have had brain surgery (two for tumors, one for an aneurism) also report that just opening the skull and closing it again brought about mental changes and a lack of mental acuity. Don't sit there and act like I am just pulling things out of thin air.

And I can't help but feel as if that "back to submission and decency" and "lack of ladylike behavior" was aimed straight at me. You can hate my language at points and that is fine. I look at it as consistancy. I talked that way about you and your wife while you weren't here. It would be hypocritical to change because you are in the room.

This time you are making wild speculation. Dd you know that in addition to being a foul mouthed internet poster I am also a skilled seamstress? That I make quilts for fun and for Project Linus? That I refer to all my neighbors as Mr and Miss first name because that is how I was raised? That I have been nominated for 3 scholarships for my research methods? That i mke casseroles for funeral dinners and plant flowers for my elderly neighbors?

I waited a LONG time before forming my opinion of you and your wife. You decided after about 4 posts that I was a heathen foul mouthed witch without any ladylike traits and apparently a very big imagination.

I never brought my thoughts to your wife's blog because it would not be prudent or polite behavior. I can however discuss my thoughts on her blog here in my own sandbox. It wouldn't be right to do so over on Lori's page. So don't for a second try to blame me or any of us for Lori's move toward extreme hostile fundamentalist behavior. I suggest that you get your house in order. If you believe in submission I would jerk a knot in Lori's tail and shut down her blog. You are the headship right? You have repeatedly expressed disagreement with Lori's words on the blog. If you really want to walk the walk then don't let her publish anything, blog post or comment without your ok. She doesn't seem to pay much attention to what you believe, and she seems to have told so many lies or exagerations or contradictory views to your observations and views. Shut it down until she can listen to her headship and follow his guidance.

I think that "biblical submission" is a crock of horseshit but you seem to buy it. Time to walk the walk. You and your venom spewing monster off wife. I am done even trying to be nice you condescending fuckwit.

Edited because spelling. And riffles.

[Ken]

I can only bang my head against a wall for so long before I just have to call it a day. I encourage you to participate (or at least read) other threads on the forum than this one so that you can find out what other folks in your (semi) circle of christianity are up to.

I will take a look at other posts as I have time. This process has been way too time consuming for the small return on investment. People will see what they want to see I guess. I am trying to understand the emotional bent here. It is a no win situation for me having to witness the attacks and snark, yet knowing that the group has things so wrong most of the time.

You've been rather kind, thank you. But the Google search with my wife's name and profanity and defamation is still unconscionable. Sorry. Imagine if that was you, or your husband, and don't blame the Crawler, it is just a tool your group is manipulating for your own purposes.

Just think about it for me. Thanks,

[Ken]

Actually, I have a hard time keeping you all straight and did not necessarily address the decency and ladylike to you... but if the shoe fits.... :).

I appreciate your concern and I have thought through what you are asking. I really think Lori's harder stance has come from a few hard core anti-feminist blogs she was following combined with her getting the hate comments.

You must have missed my posts of a husband's sacrificial love and my view of submission. My leadership should not involve control or manipulation. I talk to my wife about what I might like to see changed in her approach on her blog and make t clear to her that I expect no changes for my sake, but only if she agrees it is best. I think in time you may see some areas of movement in some suggestions made here, but still no where near what you would desire, or the shutting down of her blog.

The success of so many who appreciate her words each week propels her forward. I can only try to broaden her view to make her see a bigger picture without giving up the Biblical ideals we both hold fast to with a purpose.

I like that you shared a bit about yourself. It gives me a good picture of who you are and that you care about others. Just not fundies :).

I feel at times as if I am the one one exposed and yet have no idea who I am deal with on the other side. I have never had any issues with getting along and caring about all people, no matter who they are, what they believe or what mud they come out of. If you knew who some of my best friends are you might be shocked as they are far from fundies, and many non-Christians. I am a lover at heart, just like my Mom who died when I was 19 of cancer. Her death had a profound affect on my life making me want to live her lost life out in me with everyone I meet.

I apologize to all when I have not come across loving at times. Thanks...

[julie paradox]

KEN

When you quote someone using ", please please please remember to close the quote by using the other ".

EVERYONE

I know it's confusing with all the nesting, but could we all make an effort to type outside quoting? It's really hard to read otherwise, even if bolded.

[formergothardite]

KEN

When you quote someone using ", please please please remember to close the quote by using the other ".

EVERYONE

I know it's confusing with all the nesting, but could we all make an effort to type outside quoting? It's really hard to read otherwise, even if bolded.

:embarrassed: Sorry. I'll remember not to do that.

[Koala]

Ken, being the upright, honest man that you are, would you mind addressing the fact that though you said you were not, you were indeed posting on Lori's blog the day Lady Virture asked how marital rape could even exist? It has been linked and quoted, so at least have the integrity to address it. Despite your wife's success with it, deception is not becoming.

[salex]

Yes, but words also have limitations in explaining context. There is often much more to a story than what the works in a brief sentence can convey. I have shown many mischaracterizations and speculations precisely because the reader chooses to use their bias to interpret the words without knowing the full story and context.

Again you blame others for purposely or not, taking the scenarios described on the blog out of context. As I said earlier--you and Lori fall back on other people "not knowing the context" quite a lot when cornered over specific things either of you write. If this is a consistent problem, which your use of the phrase suggests is the case, then Lori needs to take some writing workshops, if she has not already. As the author she, and you in your writing, are responsible for sending the message out in as clear a way as possible, adding whatever context is needed to make sure there can't be misunderstanding. Her sentences about the diaphragm were well crafted and got the exact message she wanted out. She decided it was easier to get forgiveness than permission to do what she wanted and it worked... she got to stay home. She, and maybe you, see it now as a funny story. When it didn't come across as funny to us, then we must be to blame, since we didn't get the "context." That is a cop out-- we can only read what you write. If you think your reader's biases will taint the story, it is incumbent on you as the message sender to make the message so clear that can't happen. (Communication model... you are surely familiar with it)

Regardless, it is almost like a soap opera on this site looking for mud and gossip material instead of dealing with the real issues... the disagreement with what God says in His Word,

When the bible scholars here tell you that they disagree and why, you don't ever respond except to say "nope, we are right and you are wrong." When we discuss the serious problems women faced before they had equal rights in property ownership, the workplace, etc. (I recommended a few history books) you don't address it. When I repeat why I find the philosophy Lori promote dangerous when it talks about women not needing the right to vote, i get no response. So, don't act as though no one has been addressing the real issues.

maybe jealousy, maybe taking out on others some real pain in one;s life?

I see jealousy as a major factor in most rifts in relationships in the workplace. If I can't have it, let me try to destroy it, or at least make fun of it.

I gave you my biography long ago(which I never do) specifically to show you that I had no reason to be jealous of your life. I haven't got particular pain in my life. What is amusing is that you are falling back to the tween girl excuse of why people aren't your friends... "they're just jealous." Of what? THe reason people wondered if you were harsh with Lori is wholly based on the specific things she wrote about you. And her constant telling women to submit even if their husband is a jerk and it will make their marriage better, look how well it worked for her. That message indicates a lot of things about what she thinks of you, even as she is saying a variation of "I was not obedient. I pouted. I tried to get my way. But once I started submitting without worrying about if he deserved it we quit fighting, so submit even if your husband is a Jerk" she still is shifting blame for her actions toward you. Your consistent blaming of women for marital problems --all these difficult women, these out of control women, these selfish women-- sounds like you are bringing up your old issues with Lori and projecting them on all women. This is the public dynamic of the blog. Your home may be blissfilled, and your kids glorius, but the blog sounds like the old issues are not gone. Cry context all day long, but all those hundreds of post tell a story, and what I just described seems to be the message. Oh yeah... and God doesn't like any marriage style other than yours is the ultimate appeal to authority and wins no one.

I said earlier that you were fighting a hydra--this thread had too many topics running in it to keep track of-- spanking, submission, biblical interpretation, feminism, women's rights, your defense and admiration of SSM and the Pearls, egalitarian vs submissive marriages. Any one of these things could have been its own thread. And if there was not a clear goal to your being here (or if it changed and became less specific once you were here) things can get more and more complex... to the point where your defense is we are a bunch of mudslinging shrews who don't know the context of why Lori used the terms Lousy to describe your marriage and that has been revised to difficult. And we are big meanies because we are jealous (yeah, that's the ticket) we are just jealous.

In here, we are equals. None of us have to be nice to you in a social manner because our boss hired you, just as you don't have to be nice to us because we work closely with the person who hired you.

Without the social constructs of the organizational chart, the face to face sizing up of each other based on social cues (what class is this person how do they dress, are they tattooed what, accent, what race, what age, what gender, etc) it is a much more level playing field. No one has to back down (which is part of why you find yourself wondering why you are still here)

How did you think we would react to you when you joined? Did you think we'd be like the staff members in the office where you work (yes, boss) or like the people in your church (That is so insightful... thanks for sharing.)

I understand the compulsion to keep the conversation going (hence this post--probably) you probably understand the following cartoon now, if nothing else

[Koala]

I feel at times as if I am the one one exposed and yet have no idea who I am deal with on the other side.

You are only exposed because you and your wife make an active choice to expose yourselves. Do you know why you have very limited information about me? It's because I choose to reveal little information about myself. You could never quote any of the "highly personal" details of my life, because there aren't any here that I would mind having quoted back to me. Things that are of a personal nature are not subject to internet fodder and snark because I don't provide the material. This is something you should consider if Lori is to continue giving marriage and parenting advice to people she doesn't know via the internet.

Either you are Lori is a revisionist historian. Here's why:

You repeatedly tell stories that could not simultaneously be true. Ironically, my money is on Lori being the teller of truth, because I think she's just bold enough to do it, and you've been caught lying here a couple of times. You seem to be a people pleaser, and want others to like you, and I honestly don't think Lori gives a shit what anyone else thinks. I think this makes you more subject to:

A) putting on blinders as to what really is/was going on in your home

B) recreating history to make it more palatable

Now, I could sit here and tell you all about myself (I'm southern, so you can imagine how many little old ladies I've helped across the street), but that's not going to happen. Here's why:

To sit here and pat myself on the back would cheapen any good deeds I took credit for. If I have helped my fellow man somewhere along the road of life, I don't need the approval of a greasy, middle aged man on the internet to feel good about it.

You have stooped so low as to accuse me of potential thievery for daring to quote your wife's public blog, but the good news is that I have at least 1 thing in common with your wife- I don't give a shit what strangers on the internet think of me- least of all, you.

[Rebelwife]

This is so true. My sister died of brain cancer 4 years ago and in the 16 months between her diagnosis and her death we were all astounded at the changes we saw. Not just cognitive decompensation but wholesale personality changes. It was really quite fascinating is a horrifyingly morbid way.

[Koala]

I am trying to understand the emotional bent here.

I am thinking that for a guy who claims to be "sad" over a self professed snark forum, you sure do accuse others of being "hysterical" and "emotional" a lot.

[geeklove]

Ken said(snip)This process has been way too time consuming for the small return on investment.

I think you are getting exactly what you wanted Ken- attention.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Since Ken and Lori clearly consider the Pearls to be their mentors and defend them against all criticism, I wonder what they think of this article, straight off the Pearl's own website:

http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/abusive-husband/

Since Ken doesn't always like to read things fully, I suggest starting with the last paragraph. Michael Pearl is saying that when a child molester husband gets out of jail, he should be welcomed with open arms of forgiveness, even if he does not repent, and God will be happy and reward her as a martyr, because somehow divorce is worse living with an unrepentent child molester.

[Koala]

The point is that one does no have to drag out every little detail of a person's blog and comments in order to state clearly that they disagree with them. What is the purpose?

Ken, if your wife stands behind her words she should be grateful that we are quoting them directly instead of just writing a giant wall of text, vaguely stating that we disagree with her. Now it is up to potential readers to evaluate your wife's exact words on their own merit.

I think the reality is that you:

1) Know yours wife's words have been used to contradict you here multiple times

2)Know that many of the things your wife says will come across as horrific to anyone with a shred of human decency

You must admit for a man to come in here and try to keep up with you all, that takes some guts. So at least give me that.

No, I am afraid not Ken. It *might* take guts to address the lies I have pointed out just in the last 2 days.

1) Despite your claims, Lori has long been aware that she has readers who discuss her writings on a different forum...I believe she referred to us as "trolls" as early as 2012 (1 year into her blogging career)

2) You were indeed on Lori's blog (and specific post) the day Lady Virture questioned the validity of marital rape, and despite your claims that you made "zero" comments, you actually made 3

Acknowledge those two things for the lies that they are and perhaps we'll get you the Scout badge for "guts" that you so covet. :roll:

[formergothardite]

Well I would like to try to help you get them back, but to be honest I a not sure myself exactly what she meant by this... except we men do like certain things in life. I like a a lot of intelligence, good communicator and a nice looking face to go with my woman. Maybe she doesn't know that? Or maybe this was a bit of hyperbole which is acceptable for a writer, especially in this area. Women think all men care about is sex and tat is simply not true! We like food and sports too.

Did I get your M & M's back?

I was the one who lost the M & M's and the bet was that you would ignore those particular comments by your wife. I said that you would reply in some way, my husband, who is reading along on this thread, said you would ignore them completely or only acknowledge them when they were brought up over and over again. He won.

You say that women think all men only care about sex. I don't think this at all, but apparently your wife does. I will link to the post so that you can read it yourself but this is what she says men want in a husband:

This is all most husbands want...a naked wife who smiles a lot.

This is demeaning to both men and women. Men want a naked wife who smiles a lot? What gave her that impression? Is that how little she thinks of men? This shows no respect for men at all.

Most men aren't that complicated. They don't care if their wives look like models. They want a woman who will love them as they are, not argue with them, allow them to be the leader, fix them good food, be happy, and give them lots of sex.

Men are not a one minded borg like your wife claims. According to her men want a naked wife who smiles a lot, loves them, doesn't dare argue with him, submits, gives them good food, is happy with doing all that and there is tons of sex.

No, what my husband wanted was an individual who has an opinion of her own, doesn't give in just because he has a penis, lets him know when I think he is wrong, he cooks better than I do, sex is great, but it isn't something I give to him, it is something we have together.

She named the post Naked With a Smile.

If I had said that all I want in a husband is a naked man who smiles, cleans, never argues, lets me get my way, and gives me sex whenever I want it, would you think I had a lot of respect for men? It doesn't sound respectful to men to reduce them to sex objects that do my will and it isn't respectful to women to do that to them either.

If your wife was not being serious with this then she should have been more clear. People in the comments were taking it seriously.

http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/ ... smile.html

[Koala]

I really don't get much of the rambling here.

Irony, thy name is Ken.

[Koala]

So my wife now teaches "spank harder" because the Crawler shows you a search about spanking even if the word "harder" never shows up in the comments?

No. Your wife teaches "spank harder" because those are the words she uses to give advice to her readers who aren't having success with spanking. Shall I quote her?

[RosyDaisy]

I am not sure exactly, but I recall I read some posts about me being Satan, controlling my wife, making her write all these things, and a myriad of other speculative lies. I believe many of the lies are cleared up now, so I may be moving on soon.

No, nothing has changed with Lori's personality with her illness. You have some more wild guesses and speculations going on. I do think that she has moved further to the fundie camp, pushed somewhat by the derogatory comments that some try to post on her blog. The more nasty women become she may equate this with how they treat their husbands. No more lady like behavior, and this site is a prime example of the radial change in women in the last 50 years. Hence her desire to try and get women back to a point of submission and decency.

Cleared up? If anything the so-called lies have proven to be the truth. If' you're leaving, don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

[formergothardite]

She tells women to not get drunk or stoned then blame it on the guys when they take advantage of them

This is from Lori's post today. Great blaming the victim Ken. "Take advantage of" usually refers to rape. So Lori is not condemning the message "don't blame guys for raping drunk women". Is this really a godly message? I do blame guys when they rape drunk women because they know better and they can stop themselves. The default setting for men isn't rape and they should be blamed when they do rape people. I think Lori shows less respect for men then most of us do.

[lizziesmom]

Ken: When you use phrases like helping women to return to 'decency and submission' you pretty much tip your hand. There isn't a woman on here who is indecent and being submissive is not a great quality in either man or woman. You totally lost me as far as taking anything you write here very seriously since that is where you are coming from -- MAN is superior to WOMAN and all women should behave a certain way to be acceptable in your eyes. Glad you and Lori found one another because you certainly deserve each other.