Olympics and Fundies

[nausicaa]

Wow, I didn't know that was the origin of "figure" skating. Were there also more interesting parts with jumps and spins and things?

As to the fundies--the only thing I remember a fundie-lite friend saying about the Olympics was that her parents said the Russians had rigged all the outcomes. This was in the time of Oksana Baiul, I think, and I doubt it was fundie-specific. And now Wikipedia tells me she skated for Ukraine anyway!

No-- the figures portion was quite boring. All the skaters would be given the same four patterns to skate (like variations of figure eights with smaller circles within them). The ice would be inspected for how steady the lines from the blades were and how even the circles. It was pretty boring, and often caused skaters whose performances were really good to end up below another skater who had done a great job at their figures but had a mediocre performance.

They could never really monetize is, so it was eliminated after 1988. I might have a little Olympics fever and be watching a ton of old footage on YouTube :D

[snusmumriken]

That's so odd! And yes, looks boring. I suppose I must have watched that Olympics with my family but I sure don't remember it. I do like Ivanova's spiffy legwarmers, though. :)

[formergothardite]

Maybe Fundies won't watch ice skating because they skate to music and they dance. Their loss. Skating is a thing of beauty. Off topic but of interest, I'm old enough to remember that back in the day the skaters were required to slowly skate actual figures on the ice and then the judges would come onto the ice and examine the figures and score them. I can't remember what the figures were other than the figure eight. I remember it as boring to watch, though. Thank goodness they eliminated that portion of the judging.

Oh, I remember that! It was boring to watch.

[louisa05]

Wow, I didn't know that was the origin of "figure" skating. Were there also more interesting parts with jumps and spins and things?

As to the fundies--the only thing I remember a fundie-lite friend saying about the Olympics was that her parents said the Russians had rigged all the outcomes. This was in the time of Oksana Baiul, I think, and I doubt it was fundie-specific. And now Wikipedia tells me she skated for Ukraine anyway!

The problem with eliminating figures is that skaters don't learn to use the edges. People like Dorothy Hamill and Scott Hamilton who had to compete in figures never switched edges on jumps like the lutz or skated on the flat. If you ever saw either of them live, or any other skaters from the figures era, you didn't hear blades scratching on the ice. You hear plenty of it with today's elite skaters. There also were not many pre-adolescent jumping beans winning women's titles in the figures era as it took years of discipline to reach an elite level in figures. Tara Lipinski and Oksana Baiul (at 15 and 16 respectively) probably would not even have been at their Olympics had there still been figures.

[Becket70]

The problem with eliminating figures is that skaters don't learn to use the edges. People like Dorothy Hamill and Scott Hamilton who had to compete in figures never switched edges on jumps like the lutz or skated on the flat. If you ever saw either of them live, or any other skaters from the figures era, you didn't hear blades scratching on the ice. You hear plenty of it with today's elite skaters. There also were not many pre-adolescent jumping beans winning women's titles in the figures era as it took years of discipline to reach an elite level in figures. Tara Lipinski and Oksana Baiul (at 15 and 16 respectively) probably would not even have been at their Olympics had there still been figures.

Interesting. Do you think they eliminated the figures because it didn't play well on the TV coverage?

[louisa05]

Interesting. Do you think they eliminated the figures because it didn't play well on the TV coverage?

Partly because of that and partly because people would get upset when a skater had a solid lead in figures and didn't skate as well in the technical program (now called the short program) and/or free skate and still medaled or even won. Since no one watched figures or cared, people didn't understand the outcomes. Scott Hamilton, in fact, won his gold medal based on a huge lead after figures.

Some very well known coaches objected and predicted an era of little girl jumping beans would follow--and they were not wrong. That has stopped a little bit with new age restrictions--skaters now must turn 15 by the previous July 1 to compete on the senior level. Some coaches, including reigning men's world champ Patrick Chan's original coach (now deceased), still made skaters learn some basic figures to improve their edges. I do not like Chan much, but he does have solid edges and quiet blades which pays off for him in high scores in the component called "skating skills". Another skater who was taught basic figures is Michelle Kwan (who never "flutzed"--a term fans use for switching to the wrong edge when taking off on the lutz jump). Notably, Kwan was able to navigate puberty without losing her jumping ability, probably thanks to solid technique including edge control. There is a long list of girls who were not so lucky. That problem has been the plague of American women since her retirement.

[nausicaa]

Interesting. Do you think they eliminated the figures because it didn't play well on the TV coverage?

Yes, that was probably the primary reason, but I also heard that poorer countries (i.e., former Cold War countries) disliked figures because they claimed skaters from wealthier countries (i.e., Canada and the US) had an advantage due to their rink options.

Figures required TONS of ice time (unlike the artistic skating which has substantial practice time in the gym and ballet studio). Poorer countries didn't have the facilities to allow skaters the time needed to really practice figures, since so many skaters shared the same rink with one another, as well as with hockey teams, speed skaters, curling teams, et cetera. When the Olympic Committee was deciding on keeping figures or not in 1988, the opinions came down consistently as a "get rid of them" from the Soviet Union, East Germany, Yugoslavia, and "keep them" from the US, Canada, Great Britain, Republic of Germany.

[Maggie Mae]

Ice IS really expensive though. I live in Alaska, and ice time is at a premium for hockey, and I don't even know anyone who figure skates. Fees on ice based sports DO prohibit participation. One of the problems I have with Curling is how expensive it is. It's fun, and I pay the price but I recognize that it's not accessible to the majority of people because of cost alone. The league fees barely cover rent, ice, maintenance, taxes, and whatever other bills come up, much less expansion costs which are sorely needed.

In other states, with higher participation, it might be less expensive. My coworker plays hockey, and her games are often late at night, because "ice time" is so scarce. I don't even know when/if anyone around here participates in figure skating. If they did, I'm sure they too would be fighting for time and/or practicing at all hours. It's not a sport like basketball where you can just stick a hoop up just about anywhere, or running (which is basically free), or even, to some extent, skiing. With ice sports, it takes up large amounts of space AND it needs specialized equipment, and limited number of people can use that space at the same time.

[louisa05]

Ice IS really expensive though. I live in Alaska, and ice time is at a premium for hockey, and I don't even know anyone who figure skates. Fees on ice based sports DO prohibit participation. One of the problems I have with Curling is how expensive it is. It's fun, and I pay the price but I recognize that it's not accessible to the majority of people because of cost alone. The league fees barely cover rent, ice, maintenance, taxes, and whatever other bills come up, much less expansion costs which are sorely needed.

In other states, with higher participation, it might be less expensive. My coworker plays hockey, and her games are often late at night, because "ice time" is so scarce. I don't even know when/if anyone around here participates in figure skating. If they did, I'm sure they too would be fighting for time and/or practicing at all hours. It's not a sport like basketball where you can just stick a hoop up just about anywhere, or running (which is basically free), or even, to some extent, skiing. With ice sports, it takes up large amounts of space AND it needs specialized equipment, and limited number of people can use that space at the same time.

Nationals was in our backyard last year (my mother and I attended) and the local paper had an article that estimated that an elite level skater spends at least $70,000 a year and some as much or more than $100,000. Those figures include ice time, boots & blades, costumes, coaching fees, travel expenses, off ice training costs (which can include ballet, pilates, yoga etc...), choreographers' fees (which can be as much as $15,000 a year for two elite level programs) and more.

[GeoBQn]

One time my mom and I were watching one of the championships for ice dancing. When they showed the pair of Tanith Belbin and Ben Agosto, my mom suddenly realized that she used to work with with Agosto's mother. She remembers walking into the break room and hearing his mom saying, "His coach says he's got the potential to be a champion, but we'd have to move to Detroit for more training . . ." They ended up taking silver at the 2006 Winter Olympics, so it would appear that she made the right decision to nurture her son's talent. Still, it's so hard to fathom all the sacrifices these families make for such slim chances of success. I joke to my husband that we should make our kids do activities where the pool of talent is smaller so there is a greater chance of success, like bagpipes or team handball.

[0 kids n not countin]

LOL, speaking of Fundies and the Olympics (& figure skating) we get this from Paul Arndt:

Looking forward to watching some of the 2014 Olympics!

I downloaded an app for my tablet, but so far the only highlights I got to load were figure skating — men’s only! *yawn*

I guess they'll get excited when they show the curling. I seem to rememebr a year or two back the manboys were fascinated with curling and took some lessons.

[nausicaa]

Ice IS really expensive though. I live in Alaska, and ice time is at a premium for hockey, and I don't even know anyone who figure skates. Fees on ice based sports DO prohibit participation. One of the problems I have with Curling is how expensive it is. It's fun, and I pay the price but I recognize that it's not accessible to the majority of people because of cost alone. The league fees barely cover rent, ice, maintenance, taxes, and whatever other bills come up, much less expansion costs which are sorely needed.

In other states, with higher participation, it might be less expensive. My coworker plays hockey, and her games are often late at night, because "ice time" is so scarce. I don't even know when/if anyone around here participates in figure skating. If they did, I'm sure they too would be fighting for time and/or practicing at all hours. It's not a sport like basketball where you can just stick a hoop up just about anywhere, or running (which is basically free), or even, to some extent, skiing. With ice sports, it takes up large amounts of space AND it needs specialized equipment, and limited number of people can use that space at the same time.

Oh, I didn't meant to suggest that the poorer countries were lying or exaggerating about the difficulties of getting ice time. I'm sure the Soviet Republics at the end of the 80s were nowhere you wanted to be as an elite athlete in an expensive sport. In nearly all Winter Olympic sports the costs are so high that it really is limited to a handful of countries with the infrastructure to support the activities. It also of course limits the number of athletes who can participate.

[Stephanie66]

I doubt it, since broomball is not yet an Olympic event.

*rimshot*

[Becket70]

I love the ice skating in any form, though ice dancing sure has changed from the original skate "dancing" to a more athletic form. I think I hold the record for the world's slowest spin...but, by God, I did a complete 360. Just took me a while. But I remember skating as tons of fun. We used to bring our skates to school and skate when we got out. All outdoor stuff...no enclosed rinks.

Back to the Fundy view. I would think they would not watch women's skating because of the apparent skimpy costume, though they are really covered up a lot more than it looks.

[Mary C Doates]

Aren't you to take a shot of whisky for each end of curling? :naughty: Picture Josh Duggar. :lol:

I think an occasional shot of whiskey would do wonders for his outlook on life.

Wouldn't fundies be appalled by many of the outfits worn by competitors? I have visions of female Duggars covering up parts of the television screen to shield their brothers from those defrauding skating outfits--a real test of their eye-hand coödination during spins. Maybe men's hockey would be safe...

[maybeizfundie]

heh. The ones on my newsfeed who are watching it are hyperfocused on "Look, look, this is communism! See all the fails!"

[GolightlyGrrl]

With the Winter Olympics beginning tomorrow, I was wondering if Fundies follow the Olympics or if they have issues with them? I am sure many are in line with Russia's treatment of gays. The Winter uniforms are more modest than the Summer ones. I seem to remember Kristina's hubby getting his knickers in a knot about the London Olympics commemorating National Health Care. Have any Fundies been blogging about the Sochi Olympics?

[Maggie Mae]

I can sort of see Fundies liking curling. On the surface, it's a really fundie friendly sport. You shake hands before and after each game, and (at least in my club) the winner cleans the ice. However, it's traditional for the winner to buy the first round of drinks, and then the opponents buy the next round. It's bad form to be too loud or to get too excited about a winning play, etc. There's also a long tradition of drinking that goes with curling, and occasionally other substances.

It's really easy to learn, though probably out of the price range of most fundies, yet hard to master.

[louisa05]

I can sort of see Fundies liking curling. On the surface, it's a really fundie friendly sport. You shake hands before and after each game, and (at least in my club) the winner cleans the ice. However, it's traditional for the winner to buy the first round of drinks, and then the opponents buy the next round. It's bad form to be too loud or to get too excited about a winning play, etc. There's also a long tradition of drinking that goes with curling, and occasionally other substances.

It's really easy to learn, though probably out of the price range of most fundies, yet hard to master.

You could buy grape juice. Then it would all be okay. :D

[geergirl]

I can sort of see Fundies liking curling. On the surface, it's a really fundie friendly sport. You shake hands before and after each game, and (at least in my club) the winner cleans the ice. However, it's traditional for the winner to buy the first round of drinks, and then the opponents buy the next round. It's bad form to be too loud or to get too excited about a winning play, etc. There's also a long tradition of drinking that goes with curling, and occasionally other substances.

It's really easy to learn, though probably out of the price range of most fundies, yet hard to master.

On the surface it does seem like a great fundie sport. The drinking, IME, is fairly well entrenched as a part of the sport and would be enough to drive them off. Growing up, the cost wasn't prohibitive, but I think that was a result of the specific arrangement in my hometown. Rink fees got you access to the curling and hockey rinks and were substantially reduced if you worked at least two bingos to raise money. IRC, a family who worked bingos could get a pass for <$300. As to the drinking, I've heard legends of an event called the rock and rye. Teams would curl for three ends, then drink for three ends and alternate through the night.

[Maggie Mae]

On the surface it does seem like a great fundie sport. The drinking, IME, is fairly well entrenched as a part of the sport and would be enough to drive them off. Growing up, the cost wasn't prohibitive, but I think that was a result of the specific arrangement in my hometown. Rink fees got you access to the curling and hockey rinks and were substantially reduced if you worked at least two bingos to raise money. IRC, a family who worked bingos could get a pass for <$300. As to the drinking, I've heard legends of an event called the rock and rye. Teams would curl for three ends, then drink for three ends and alternate through the night.

I totally agree that the drinking would probably drive them off.

As for the cost, well, my club is a curling club only, no hockey. It's pretty pricey - I shouldn't share the details as they aren't posted publicly and anyone can figure out which club i'm talking about. I'm not exactly private with my location. So in my area, I can't see any fundies being able to participate other than a "learn to curl" session, unless they are incredibly wealthy. I, only supporting myself, can only afford league per year.

The Rock 'n Rye sounds great. One of my favorite things in curling is that my beer does not get warm. It just stays at the perfect temperature, end after end.