Botkin Smackdown!!

[Marian the Librarian]

Yowza! Take a look at the newest blog post from Katie Botkin, sane cousin of A-S and E (quoted in full here, because it's just too good not to):

"It's Still (Not That) Complicated"

I was cleaning up today and came across my cousin’s book It’s (Not That) Complicated, in which they lay out their advice to young women waiting around for a husband (spoiler alert: they think you should ask your parents to screen applicants while you patiently do your father’s bidding at home) and flipped open to this passage, which was horrifying enough that I felt slightly sick to my stomach:

“Amazingly, the Bible does speak specifically to our parents’ role in our romantic lives. Deuteronomy 22 is a good place to start. Verses 13-21 lay out a law that God gave the Israelites regarding a young bride whose husband has accused her of not being a virgin on her wedding night. Interestingly, the young bride is not the defendant. Her father is.

The burden of evidence was placed on ‘the father of the young woman and her mother’ to prove that their daughter was a virgin, and the father was required to represent her. If she was proven innocent, the young man had to pay an enormous fine to the father for bringing ‘a bad name upon a virgin of Israel.’ But if the young woman was found guilty, verse 21 continues, ‘Then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father’s house, and then men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has done an outrageous thing in Israel by whoring in her father’s house. So shall you purge the evil from your midst.’

Why? Why was it not entirely her own business? Why was she stoned at her father’s door and not her husband’s (or the door of her apartment)? What did her father have to do with something as personal to her as her own purity? Because God had placed the daughter under her father’s care, until the time when the father gave her to another man (as it is said in verse 16, ‘I gave my daughter to this man to marry…’) and her father was responsible for knowing that the purity of the bride he was giving away had been preserved for her husband. She — and the priceless gift of her purity — was not just hers to give. In the event that the young man had been defrauded of what was rightfully his, the responsibility fell on the guardian (father) as well as on her†(page 143).

The passage in question requires the parents of the accused girl to bring out “the cloak,†which refers to a cloth placed on the bridal bed. If it was bloody, that was “proof†that the girl had been a virgin, and if it wasn’t, that was proof that she was a “whore,†and should be bludgeoned to death with heavy rocks. As common as this practice may have been in certain parts of the world at certain times in our history — including some of the current-day Middle East — it is of course widely known at this point that this is about the least scientific way to prove or not prove virginity. At this point, any sane person should be thinking that this passage should be about the farthest thing from something we should aspire to. And yet, according to It’s (Not That) Complicated, we are to draw an important lesson from it: it’s partially the dad’s fault if a daughter doesn’t bleed on her wedding night, and a husband has been “defrauded of what was rightfully his†by the same token. Because obviously, making his bride bleed on their first night together is what every dude should aspire to as his God-given duty, and killing her if that doesn’t happen is the next natural, logical step. And her father should totally approve of this arrangement.

That is one horrible father. So, sorry, and you can call me a feminist for wanting the value of a woman’s life to lie somewhere above the value of a tricky little medical membrane, but you failed to convince me that I should be seeking out that kind of “protection†— either from such a father or such a husband.

kbotkin.com

[DefraudedByPlaid]

Love this :-)

[ThisOlGirl]

I can only imagine what GeoffBot must think of his niece. It probably chaps his ass that she's allowed to have her own thoughts and speak her mind, especially since she's basically speaking out against him.

Rock on, Katie.

[Marian the Librarian]

How I imagine myself at the next Botkin family reunion:

[lilith]

Yay Katie!

I bet that she finds her Prince Charming while her cousins are still at home untying Daddy's shoes and bringing him his slippers.

[RosyDaisy]

Wow..what a slap in the face to the Botinettes and Geoff. Speaking of the Botkins, it's entirely possible that AS & E are deliberately avoiding marriage by proving to be valuable asset to there father. Or maybe they are wait until they reach an age where they are less likely to a dozen kids. They are both beautiful women, and I'm sure there are plenty of fundie men who Geoff would find suitable for his daughters.

[lilith]

Wow..what a slap in the face to the Botinettes and Geoff. Speaking of the Botkins, it's entirely possible that AS & E are deliberately avoiding marriage by proving to be valuable asset to there father. Or maybe they are wait until they reach an age where they are less likely to a dozen kids. They are both beautiful women, and I'm sure there are plenty of fundie men who Geoff would find suitable for his daughters.

I don't know, I think they're soaked in the kool aid enough to want the fullest possible quiver and the adult status that marriage brings in their world. I can also see Geoff thinking that no potential suitor measures up to him as a prospective headship.

And also, cause I think he genuinely loves them in his own way, maybe subconsciously not wanting them to be treated the way wives are in their culture and the way he treats Victoria. He may prefer to see them as his doting maidens to seeing them lose their bloom and energy like Kelly Bradrick. (Ha! My phone autocorrects Bradrick to BRADRICK! I must have written BRADRICK! enough times for my dictionary to pick up on it).

[ILoveJellybeans]

Katie is awesome.

[Lily]

Go Katie.

I can't wait to see the passive-aggressive response from Gbot and the Botkinettes.

[FloraKitty35]

The Botkinettes are soaked in the Kool Aid, but if they did meet Prince Charming, married him, had a quiverfull of their own, and lost their looks and figures, then they wouldn't be as appealing to Geoff's personal vanity. I personally think the Botkinettes view Geoff as Prince Charming to the extent that they should record a song called "My Ovaries Belong to Daddy" (set to the tune of "My Heart Belongs to Daddy"). :ew:

[Palimpsest]

Go, Katie! :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

I don't think Geoff will ever let either A-S or E go. I also don't think they would willingly marry even in the very unlikely event that a potential suiter appears that can meet his standards. They are so brainwashed and imprinted on Daddy that anyone who isn't Geoff won't meet their weird standards for a mate. Sad.

[Ralar]

Yowza! Take a look at the newest blog post from Katie Botkin, sane cousin of A-S and E (quoted in full here, because it's just too good not to):

kbotkin.com

:u-rock:

[debrand]

Wow..what a slap in the face to the Botinettes and Geoff. Speaking of the Botkins, it's entirely possible that AS & E are deliberately avoiding marriage by proving to be valuable asset to there father. Or maybe they are wait until they reach an age where they are less likely to a dozen kids. They are both beautiful women, and I'm sure there are plenty of fundie men who Geoff would find suitable for his daughters.

I tried to get through that horrible book and keep a blog about each chapter. After six chapters, I grew disgusted and stopped reading. :ew: It really is one of the vilest books ever written for women. Considering the fact that the Botkins' books could influence several young women and their families, I am very thankful that Kate took the time to address it.

AS & E are beautiful and I don't think that their marriage status would be an issue if it wasn't for their father's praying over their ovaries at birth. Seriously, the man prayed newborn AS would have a litter of super Christians. If they don't want to be married, they should say so; instead they help perpetuate the romantic illusion of waiting patiently for daddy to pick a husband.

[salex]

I can only imagine what GeoffBot must think of his niece. It probably chaps his ass that she's allowed to have her own thoughts and speak her mind, especially since she's basically speaking out against him.

Rock on, Katie.

I figure this is his punishment for putting his brother's Bio and name on his "Board of Directors".....(wasn't he the one?) Isn't his brother the dr. this woman's dad?

[nausicaa]

Yay Katie!

I bet that she finds her Prince Charming while her cousins are still at home untying Daddy's shoes and bringing him his slippers.

That would be awesome. And the pictures of AS and E at the wedding (if they attended) would be priceless.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Im sure Katie will find love before her cousins. She is an independent woman who can go out and find herself a boyfriend, she doesn't have to wait for Daddy to find one (which he probably never will as he likes the attention they give him and would probably be jealous of whoever they are in a relationship with, ew). She also has more life experience and isn't a doormat. I think I would be a bit weirded out if I was interested in someone and found they had that close a relationship with their father and treated him like a husband (other than the sex), and it would be incredibly offputting.

[Tesseract]

Well done, Katie, well done!

[thoughtful]

The Botkinettes are soaked in the Kool Aid, but if they did meet Prince Charming, married him, had a quiverfull of their own, and lost their looks and figures, then they wouldn't be as appealing to Geoff's personal vanity. I personally think the Botkinettes view Geoff as Prince Charming to the extent that they should record a song called "My Ovaries Belong to Daddy" (set to the tune of "My Heart Belongs to Daddy"). :ew:

Go, Katie!

And, of course, FloraKitty, I must continue the musical thought you began ("ovaries" has three syllables, though, so I had to alter that a bit -- hope you don't mind):

We want to fall in love with all

Those boys who call us young beauties.

But Dad says nope, we have no hope,

We are confined to our duties.

For since our Botkin birth

Our world’s devoid of all mirth.

While saying prayers, to ease our cares,

A cute pastor may drive us batty,

But we’re not free, to sit at his knee,

'cause our eggs belongs to Daddy.

If we invite a boy some night

’cause we find his style of dress natty,

He’s gonna lose, we can’t touch his shoes,

’cause we just do that for daddy.

Yes, our lives belong to Daddy

So we simply couldn't be wed.

Yes, our eggs belong to Daddy

We are his ‘til the day we are dead.

So we want to warn you, laddie

Though we think that you could be "It,"

That our eggs belong to Daddy

Though our Daddy he treats us like shit.

r404pTC_qGI

[Marian the Librarian]

Go, Katie!

And, of course, FloraKitty, I must continue the musical thought you began ("ovaries" has three syllables, though, so I had to alter that a bit -- hope you don't mind):

We want to fall in love with all

Those boys who call us young beauties.

But Dad says nope, we have no hope,

We are confined to our duties.

For since our Botkin birth

Our world’s devoid of all mirth.

While saying prayers, to ease our cares,

A cute pastor may drive us batty,

But we’re not free, to sit at his knee,

'cause our eggs belongs to Daddy.

If we invite a boy some night

’cause we find his style of dress natty,

He’s gonna lose, we can’t touch his shoes,

’cause we just do that for daddy.

Yes, our lives belong to Daddy

So we simply couldn't be wed.

Yes, our eggs belong to Daddy

We are his ‘til the day we are dead.

So we want to warn you, laddie

Though we think that you could be "It,"

That our eggs belong to Daddy

Though our Daddy he treats us like shit.

r404pTC_qGI

By Grabthar's hammer, you rock!!

:worship: :worship: :worship:

[MamaJunebug]

Indeed, Katie Botkin has been married and divorced. She refers to it occasionally on her blog, and it does not seem to have been an easy thing for her. So much more ( ;) ) life experience, so much more freedom, so much more joy in living, -- I am just guessing at those.

She's also alluded to having been homeschooled. I hope that sometime, she'll write a little more about her family's history - how and when her dad and her uncle parted ways of life. It's early - I don't mean that they parted ways. It appears that the brothers and their families still gather on occasion! but for one to have actually earned an MD and then to find employment in actual medical facilities, while the other has this strange, nomadic existence in which he lives off his children's incomes .... there has to be a whale of a tale behind all that.

I find myself admiring and envying Katie - what a life she's led, what adventures she's made for herself in less than three decades!!! Quite a young woman.

[SamuraiKatz]

Katie Botkin Rocks! :-)

[nokidsmom]

Go, Katie! :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

I don't think Geoff will ever let either A-S or E go. I also don't think they would willingly marry even in the very unlikely event that a potential suiter appears that can meet his standards. They are so brainwashed and imprinted on Daddy that anyone who isn't Geoff won't meet their weird standards for a mate. Sad.

+1. Exactly what I think. A-S and E could very easily be SAHDs forever. Between their father's reliance on them for his income and ego, plus their own worship of him there's no way any suitor is going to measure up to either Geoff's or their satisfaction. Sure both of them will expect to get married, have a bunch of kids, etc. but their expectations are not measuring up to reality. And another thing, both are indeed very attractive so chances are there have been suitors who have approached Geoff. Obviously got turned down since neither A-S and E has had a courtship. If there's enough spurned suitors out there, it could send a message to any other potential suitors to not bother which might explain why they are still single. The girls might be desirable in terms of beauty, being VF princesses, etc. but not every suitor is going to try to whack through the figurative wall of thorns thrown up by Geoff.

[thoughtful]

The girls might be desirable in terms of beauty, being VF princesses, etc. but not every suitor is going to try to whack through the figurative wall of thorns thrown up by Geoff.

nokidsom, brava for the Sleeping Beauty reference.

And to Marian, I'm glad you liked my little opus. I cheated a bit with the rhymes, but I think Cole Porter had already found the only true "addy" ones, other than rice paddy, which was not very useful here.

[nokidsmom]

nokidsom, brava for the Sleeping Beauty reference.

Thanks for the kudos, thoughtful. I came up with it as I was typing and it just seemed so true! Same could be said for some of our other fundie patriarchs.

[thoughtful]

Thanks for the kudos, thoughtful. I came up with it as I was typing and it just seemed so true! Same could be said for some of our other fundie patriarchs.

Heck, some of them even refer to the "hedge of protection," so it fits!

Speaking of which:

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