Botkin Smackdown!!

[Dysfundamental]

My father was narcissistic enough, and over-enmeshed with me enough, that it affected my romantic choices (and career choices) throughout my twenties. And that's without any Christian patriarchy nonsense at all.

Fortunately we were able to remake a better relationship for the last 15+ years of his life. But narcissistic fathers so often want to be the most important person in their daughter's life, and it is hard to peel yourself out of it.

[Avalondaughter]

I always hope that Katie will be there for her cousins if they ever come to their senses and escape the lifestyle. They deserve "so much more" than the box they have been put in."

I don't know about Elizabeth, but A-S certainly wants to marry. She did that big long post when she turned 25 about how her life was so different from what she expected and believed she should be a wife and mother. She covered it up with a lot of holy talk about doing her duties at home, but there was so much pain beneath it all. Funny how her lifestyle has actually denied her the life she wants.

[Peas n carrots]

I wonder if the Botkin daughters don't look at their mother and think to themselves (or subconsciously realize) that that is their fate if they marry.

The Botkinettes are women who are famous within their community and what they say carries weight. They are admired and looked to for guidance. Their mother is a near voiceless, unimportant and neglected member of their own family. I doubt either of those women would be able to transition to that role very easily.

[Talitha Cumi]

I wonder if the Botkin daughters don't look at their mother and think to themselves (or subconsciously realize) that that is their fate if they marry.

The Botkinettes are women who are famous within their community and what they say carries weight. They are admired and looked to for guidance. Their mother is a near voiceless, unimportant and neglected member of their own family. I doubt either of those women would be able to transition to that role very easily.

But how much longer will they be looked up to? It was one thing when they were fresh-faced young maidens peddling this new idea, but when it's 20 years later and the idea clearly hasn't worked for them, who's going to listen anymore?

[Drina Adams]

She doesn't need to apologise for being a feminist, it's not a bad thing.

[Peas n carrots]

But how much longer will they be looked up to? It was one thing when they were fresh-faced young maidens peddling this new idea, but when it's 20 years later and the idea clearly hasn't worked for them, who's going to listen anymore?

True, I suppose they won't be able to win. However, they could be elderly spinsters and not have to worry about a quiver of children.

[RosyDaisy]

Heck, some of them even refer to the "hedge of protection," so it fits!

Speaking of which:

5Le33lZaMOI

True, I suppose they won't be able to win. However, they could be elderly spinsters and not have to worry about a quiver of children.

And it wouldn't be that hard to convince Daddy that it's God's will that they help their father in is ministry.

[YPestis]

Katie is what Anna Sophia and Elizabeth could have been if they were allowed to go to school, get jobs and think for themselves. It's sad to see such talent girls go to waste like this. I feel that Katie and her side of the family understands the tragedy that is fundie Botkin family but can only watch on helplessly. At least if AS or E decides to skip out on the family 200 year old vision, they will have support.

[lilah]

What I wonder is there is a law of diminished returns on being a professoonal virgin like sarah mally? Or could they continue being stay a home daughters into their 30's and 40's. Most of their peers have already gotten married.

[nokidsmom]

Katie is what Anna Sophia and Elizabeth could have been if they were allowed to go to school, get jobs and think for themselves. It's sad to see such talent girls go to waste like this. I feel that Katie and her side of the family understands the tragedy that is fundie Botkin family but can only watch on helplessly. At least if AS or E decides to skip out on the family 200 year old vision, they will have support.

Exactly. I can see both A.S and E doing very well for themselves if they had college degrees and careers. Neither would be withering on the vine waiting for a husband approved by Daddy but would be dating or even married with a kid or two already. Ironically, they would come closer to their hoped for future of marriage and kids if they were allowed to get an education, a job and move out on their own.

Another bonus for them would be separating themselves from Daddy and not be inculcated with the Daddy worship that certainly has affected their lives.

[Olive Plant]

True, I suppose they won't be able to win. However, they could be elderly spinsters and not have to worry about a quiver of children.

Some of the women in that culture do get married fairly late in life to younger men. They spin it as "God wanted you to wait so he could bring along the perfect man, who was in diapers when you were a teenager!" There are probably a lot of benefits to that arrangement: young hottie who looks up to your experience and wisdom even if he spouts the patriarchy BS. If I were the Botkin sisters, I'd hold out for a fresh young thing I could manipulate easily as well. And then, wouldn't you know it, I'm just too old to have tons of children! What a pity! I can go on the tour circuit talking about submission and being a good stay-at-home wife with the two kids patted in the audience by the nanny!

[lilah]

I can't think of any women who get married to a guy who is many years younger than them. I know Jessa is courting a younger buy but it's a 2 year age difference which seems pretty negligible to me. I'd assume that in the patriarchy world it's much easier for guys to marry younger.

[redcurls]

I can't think of any women who get married to a guy who is many years younger than them. I know Jessa is courting a younger buy but it's a 2 year age difference which seems pretty negligible to me. I'd assume that in the patriarchy world it's much easier for guys to marry younger.

Blair Brown was 23 when she married 17 year old Taylor Tsantles. Also, in the Doug Phillips is a Tool threads, there are wedding pictures where it is quite clear the bride is much older than the groom. I can't remember their ages or names right now.

[Olive Plant]

Blair Brown was 23 when she married 17 year old Taylor Tsantles. Also, in the Doug Phillips is a Tool threads, there are wedding pictures where it is quite clear the bride is much older than the groom. I can't remember their ages or names right now.

That's what I was thinking. Didn't a Torres boy marry an older woman? Or am I making that up?