PIV Sex is Always Rape, Okay?

[miffy]

witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok/

I'm not sure if this should go in the MRA subsection or not?

I don't even know where to begin, but the blogger seems to be as twisted as female MRA bloggers like SSM.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Whatever gives them that idea?

This may surprise her, but the majority of women enjoy sex. They also can initiate sex, whether it is coming onto that guy at the bar or by asking their partner for it. The vagina is sensitive to touch and penetration and sex feels good.

The majority of men do not see their partners as just a warm hole to fuck. They use sex as an expression of love or just their mutual horniness. They make sure it is pleasurable for her as well, and would never have sex with her against her will.

Also because of the fact that it is way easier for a woman to control whether the sex she has will cause pregnancy than a man because women have way more options. For men, its either condoms or vasectomy. Women have loads of ways, and also they are the ones who carry the fetus in their uterus, so its their say in whether to keep it there and let it grow. A man cant force a woman to have an abortion, he can try and convince her, but if she really doesn't want to, he cant just drag her into the clinic and demand it. A woman can abort without the consent of the man, no problem at all.

Pregnancy can take its toll on a woman's health, and childbirth does hurt, but it is a choice. The majority of women who get pregnant choose to get pregnant because they want a child. Getting pregnant and raising a child isn't something a man does to a woman against her will, if she really doesn't want a baby she can choose not to-unless he is keeping her in the basement, or she is in an abusive cult and hasn't been taught that there are ways to prevent pregnancy, or taught that all of these ways are evil.

She makes the description of sex sound so disgusting and violent, but it isn't like this at all. I have never experienced this because I am a lesbian, but all of my friends who are straight women love the feeling of sex, and enjoy having a man put his penis into her vagina.

If sex (other than when you are very new to it) is painful, there is a problem. Things like getting torn or bruised, or getting an infection or disease are rare, and can easily be avoided. Not by never having sex, but by having safe sex and being selective of partners. Also a lot of women choose to wear make up, go on diets and dress up because they feel sexy like that, it isn't always about impressing a man. (Tortuous limb deforming???)

Also if women really don't like having penises in their vaginas, how come pretty much every woman masturbates, mainly with rubber penises or by putting things inside her vagina.

Sex is natural. How can she say is it not. We aren't like single celled organisms that can just split in two and create two of you. Yes, people can get pregnant without sex, but how did people have babies before these ways were even invented. People have been having sex since people have existed to have sex. Animals have sex. Sex has been a reality forever, and if it wasn't natural, how is this the main cause of pregnancy, which is what makes our species continue.

If she thinks this, she is probably either an asexual who finds sex repulsive and has no idea why anyone would ever want it, or someone who has had only crappy sex and needs to get laid by someone who is good at it.

[Rowan]

From the comments -

There’s just no need for it. Our bodies weren’t made for that. A big clue is that every hetero female’s “first time†is painful.

Weren't made for that? If that were the case, the genitals would be positioned differently so they aren't a perfect match to each other. :?

And my "first time" wasn't painful - a little uncomfortable, but that was just more of a "didn't know what I was doing and was nervous" thing. Even for those that did have pain, that doesn't disqualify all other experiences! Why does the first time need to define the entire set of something? Exercise can be painful but doesn't mean that it's not good for us. As an oboe player, I've often times experienced pain because I've pushed myself beyond my endurance for rehearsal or practice. But it only made me better. So I don't see how the first time or even any time of something you enjoy being painful as meaning that "there's just no need for it."

If she thinks this, she is probably either an asexual who finds sex repulsive and has no idea why anyone would ever want it, or someone who has had only crappy sex and needs to get laid by someone who is good at it.

I was thinking this myself. :evil-eye:

[August]

I burned my tongue on hot pizza last night. Obv no need for eating.

If we weren't made for sex, why do we need to do it reproduce?

[rosamundi]

If she thinks this, she is probably either an asexual who finds sex repulsive and has no idea why anyone would ever want it, or someone who has had only crappy sex and needs to get laid by someone who is good at it.

My immediate thought was that she had suffered rape or sexual assault, and this had then possibly been compounded by poor response from law enforcement, no or inadequate therapy, and unsympathetic responses from her partner.

[littlemommy]

My immediate thought was that she had suffered rape or sexual assault, and this had then possibly been compounded by poor response from law enforcement, no or inadequate therapy, and unsympathetic responses from her partner.

That was my thought as well, that this woman has been hurt terribly by someone or someones. It made me sad.

[Savoring Samsara]

This is pretty bog standard radical feminist stuff. What I find strangest about her blog is not "all PIV is rape" but her repeated assertion (in that entry's comments and elsewhere) that a person cannot desire their own destruction and thus can only want things that are good for them. Leaving aside the part where I'm craving egg nog right now and that is decidedly not good for me, and would LOVE to turn my philosophy graduate student housemate loose on that one.

BRB getting some egg nog now

[singsingsing]

Some people have issues, and they don't realize that those issues are their own, so they project them onto the rest of humanity.

[happy atheist]

shaking her like he would stuff a corpse

I don't even know what this means, but I'm pretty sure it's not what sex is like for me.

If this lady doesn't like sex, then she should not have it. There. Problem solved.

[debrand]

I started to read the article but stopped. It is quite long and all the commenters agree with her.

For the record, I really, really like intercourse. It feels good to me and no, I haven't been conditioned by society to think that.

It is bizarre that the writer of the article is so convinced that every woman thinks like her. There is a wide variety of sexual responses in human beings. Some people like PIV, some like bondage, some like multiple partners , etc. It is all normal. Being asexual or not liking PIV is normal too; however, don't assume that your flavor of sex(or not having sex)is the only way people enjoy sex.

[lilah]

Yeah she's a radical feminist, not a female mra. In her mind women have no freedom to consent or enjoy sex which is just as shaming as mra who see women as sex maids.

However is worth noting that as a feminist I can look at her views and see the logical dlaws and the way she is projecting her bs on to the wide world. When mra post extreemist views about rape there isn't many or any moderates saying "hold on your views are extreemist and wrong"

[doggie]

One word clitoris. The only human organ that is designed only for pleasure. Even animals have them. This woman needs a shrink bad.

[thekate]

Some people have issues, and they don't realize that those issues are their own, so they project them onto the rest of humanity.

This pretty much sums up all fundamentalists.

[singsingsing]

This pretty much sums up all fundamentalists.

Does it ever!

[NoneandDoneinCali]

I was violently sexually assaulted right around the cusp of puberty (bruises, bleeding, terrorized, etc). For many years, I wondered if other women were faking their orgasms with their partners, or exaggerating how much they enjoyed sex. I was able to give myself orgasms, so I knew things were "working," but I didn't have one with a partner until I was 22 and had (eventually, about 8 years later) sought therapy. I'd had probably 20 partners (consensual, for the most part) at this point. If I (or my parents) had known to seek treatment for me after this rape happened, I think of all the pain and suffering that could have been avoided - feeling like the rape was repeated because, though I didn't feel much pleasure with sex, I felt compelled to seek it out from many partners, hoping that I might find love that way (it was really sad, y'all. my hear breaks for the girl I was).

I feel like this woman has had something horrid happen to her, and hasn't recovered. There is a profound difference between being asexual and not desiring sex (and get on with your bad self if that's how you feel, no judgment from me), and actively feeling it is a violation. I think maybe she found acceptance in an ideology that "agrees" with her. I hope she gets help to sort these feelings out. I'm torn between wanting to debate her and giving her a hug.

**I'm in my thirties now, and I am recovered from PTSD and have had three loving, sexually fulfilling long term relationships, as well as a handful of enjoyable and short term ones. That's the path I've chosen, and it's worked well for me. Other women might not choose the same outcomes.

[artdecades]

I echo the other comments on radical feminism. Radfems have always been, well, radical. A lot of them are political lesbians (ie they choose to only have relationships with women despite their sexual orientation) due to this idea, and its very controversial. The radfem community is also rather transphobic. Its a shame that they have to be sooooooo extreme because a lot of their basic concepts are important and, in my opinion, right, but they take it to such an extreme. For instance, I agree that choice feminism is a lie because choices don't exist in a vacuum and everything is shaped by the male dominated world. However, that is pretty much where my agreement ends.

[Anise]

One word clitoris. The only human organ that is designed only for pleasure. Even animals have them. This woman needs a shrink bad.

"The pleasure we experience during intercourse isn’t natural, but groomed. Men teach us how to instantaneously associate the fear, pain and/or invasion of the penetration to clitoral stimulation, so we dissociate from it – cut it off – and think it’s pleasurable. Clitoral stimulation may function in the exact same way as dissociation in a situation of sexual violence because it sends dissociative drugs to the brain. Dissociation is a drug, so this reaction to PIV may become an addiction, a rush we crave for like cocaine."

- witchwind.wordpress.com/2014/01/02/intercourse-and-manufactured-female-pleasure-politics-of-love-part-iii/

And from the comment section: "Honestly, since I have found this site PIV has started to hurt again.I thought I loved my husband, but it seriously hurts like when I was a virgin. Also, I have noticed his violent male tendencies. Thank you so much for opening my eyes to this."

So messed up.

[Ariel]

I don't even know where to begin with this bullshit. She seems incapable of separating biology from culture.

Humans are animals and as a result we want to reproduce-and we want to do this sexually (not by rubbing semen on the vulva as she suggests in a comment) like all the other primates. However, she argues that only men have this drive and women don't. I.e. All men are animals and women are superior beings that have transcended our animal urge to reproduce.

She's dehumanizing and objectifying all men. Awesome hypocrisy!

This woman is obviously lacking a large amount of self-awareness. Also it sounds fucking exhausting to be so angry all the time.

[cindyluvs24]

From the comments -

Weren't made for that? If that were the case, the genitals would be positioned differently so they aren't a perfect match to each other. :?

And my "first time" wasn't painful - a little uncomfortable, but that was just more of a "didn't know what I was doing and was nervous" thing. Even for those that did have pain, that doesn't disqualify all other experiences! Why does the first time need to define the entire set of something? Exercise can be painful but doesn't mean that it's not good for us. As an oboe player, I've often times experienced pain because I've pushed myself beyond my endurance for rehearsal or practice. But it only made me better. So I don't see how the first time or even any time of something you enjoy being painful as meaning that "there's just no need for it."

I was thinking this myself. :evil-eye:

i'm not as flexible as I used to be and wish my genitals were more conveniently located.

[JMarie]

Another thread discussed being seated next to Sarah Mally on a plane, with her disecting a tract for the unwilling passenger. Imagine being stuck on a plane next to this chick :(.

[August]

I was going to leave a comment saying how sorry I was for whatever had hapenned to her, but I thought she'd probably think it was patronising.

[Chasingthedog]

i learn so much on this site. i didn't even know this was a thing. how sad for her, seriously. i can't imagine that sort of thinking comes from having only healthy sexual relationships.

[RosyDaisy]

WTH did I just read? I can't wrap my head around the fact that consensual, mutually wanted sex is considered rape. I'm pretty sure my SO doesn't see me as just a hole to fuck and something to exercise twisted, warped fantasies on. This woman needs help.

[Vex]

I've seen this kind of thing coming from 'feminists' before. I was recently reading about a woman who claimed that once you consented to lose your virginity that you can't be raped because it's illogical to say it's okay to have sex with one penis but not another. They basically claimed all sex is degrading and any woman who chooses to have sex is allowing her body to be used (although she also insists men aren't using the women for sex, the women are somehow submitting to being used so it's on them).

She also said most lesbians were actually bisexual because there has to be a 'man' and an 'woman' in a lesbian relationship and the one being penetrated (because apparently there's no such thing as lesbians who have non-penetrative sex) is basically having sex with a man by virtue of being penetrated so they must actually be bisexual. Apparently PIV intercourse is how men lose their virginity, but women lose it merely by tongue kissing.

[singsingsing]

Not to be blunt here, but what if a woman, uh, shall we say, penetrates herself? Is she violating herself, or is an intangible man, or the essence of maleness, doing it to her...?